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Posted by: Michael Sandy
« on: December 02, 2020, 02:37:42 PM »

The "best" method is early detection.  If you have sensor outposts at all known jump points, then you will get early warning that something is coming.  And sensor outposts can be commercial, which means you don't need to worry about maintenance lifespan.  You can drop them at every jump point and mostly forget about them.

I second the forward defense strategy.  Being able to withdraw from a box launcher volley, and withstand anything smaller, while having your own box launchers means that almost no matter what, you will inflict outsized casualties compared to your size.  It also preserves that asset that is most important to you, the ability to transit INTO that system safely.
Posted by: serger
« on: December 01, 2020, 04:02:20 PM »

I use fast monitors for static defence agains superior enemy (max-forced drives, small fuel tanks, 1 axial or lance, several quick-firing beam cannons and small MW, minimal armor and shielding; tug them to the point once for 4-5 years or use station) with aux cutters (1 minimal MW + optinally 1 minimal RG).
Beam light cruisers (non-forced drives, decent fuel tanks) - to block critical frontier points temporarily.
Several times there was squadrons of battlecruisers (more fuel, armour and shielding than monitors, still the same fast damage-dealer focus of design) to block very critical frontier point, but it's not my preferable tactics.
Posted by: Garfunkel
« on: December 01, 2020, 11:26:47 AM »

Box launchers combined with spinal lasers and/or particle lances a good combo if you're serious about defending the JP itself. Bremen already explained the reasons pretty well. And use FACs instead of actual warships because they are cheaper and faster to build and require fewer maintenance modules. The type with box launchers doesn't need to be fast.

You said the system is barren but if there was a rock somewhere, you could plant a mini-colony on that rock with an Orbital Habit and actual maintenance facilities. That would mean you don't need to build a huge station with an entertainment module and that you can produce MSP on site as long as there are minerals. If there are any minerals in the system then this method is the best one as you can rotate the vessels between the colony and the JP. Then you can add STO units on the colony as well.
Posted by: xenoscepter
« on: November 30, 2020, 05:51:27 PM »

Quote from: TheTalkingMeowth on November 30, 2020, 05:21:23 PM
Reloading by commercial hangars was fixed for 1.10

Armor repair by hangars is being added for 1.13.

You should probably report the maintenance freeze as a bug.

 - I haven't confirmed the maintenance freeze for v1.12.0, so I won't report it. It was in an older version, and it may already have been fixed. I would consider it possible that Steve has forgot to put some fixes on the changelog from time to time. :) Regardless... I don't want to test it right now, and I haven't done so, so I won't report it. It's besides the point, as the deployment freeze and fixed reloading means you can have a ~10,000 Tons station to hold ~1,000 Tons of missile tube in stasis provided you have MSP and a C. Hangar... since you wouldn't really need a dedicated Recreational Module for it. You'd just need the C. Magazine, Maintenance Modules, C. Hangar, and MSP storage... maybe some Cargo Shuttle Bays, too.

 - Ok, so I just tested it... yep, that's been fixed. Maintenance goes up now.
Posted by: TheTalkingMeowth
« on: November 30, 2020, 05:21:23 PM »

Reloading by commercial hangars was fixed for 1.10

Armor repair by hangars is being added for 1.13.

You should probably report the maintenance freeze as a bug.
Posted by: xenoscepter
« on: November 30, 2020, 05:14:10 PM »

Quote from: TheTalkingMeowth on November 30, 2020, 04:56:57 PM
Quote from: xenoscepter on November 30, 2020, 04:32:02 PM
- I use corvettes, as well as fighter garrisons... but then again I don't defend my Jump Points usually... IMO anything worth really defending is worth parking a few real warships at. Anything else is worth retaking, anything not worth either is worth losing. My defenses focus on PPV and slowing the enemy down, buying time for a local defense fleet and /or the "real fleets" to show up. I use multi-layered defenses including STOs to protect my planets... as far as I'm concerned if the aliens want to occupy space, they can have it. I'd rather let them have to dedicate resources to defending and occupying things that have no real value.

 - But, YMMV. I'd suggest Commercial Hangars on "Missile Bases" You tuck little fighters that are naught but missile tubes with an M-FCS, one or two Sensor elements to spot for 'em, and shove 'em into a commercial hangar with an Ordinance Transfer System. The Commercial ship has no deployment needs, and the missile tubes have their deployment clocks AND their Maintenance clocks frozen when docked, so it's good enough for a defense system. The Ordinance Transfer System will let them be reloaded from a Commercial Magazine by launching them, a small 50-Ton magazine and 0.3x Reduced Size Launchers in them might be useful here, too.

Commercial hangars do not freeze maintenance clocks. At least, they aren't supposed to.
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg103584#msg103584

 - They do, I've tested it... albeit on a much older version... What they DON'T do is reverse either the deployment clock or the maintenance clocks. So while a Warship won't degrade while it's inside the hangar, it will not get any better and as such each subsequent launch will keep increasing the deployment and the maintenance clock. The post in question is roughly 31/2 years old, and not too accurate IIRC as you cannot reload ships inside of a Commercial Hangar.

 - Regardless, each Commercial Hangar is still only 1,000 Tons of space, so you only need one Maintenance Module per hangar, and the deployment clock is for sure frozen so you save about 92,900 Tons this way if you have 1x C. Hangar, 1x M. Module, 1x Ordinance Transfer System and 1x C. Magazine... that weight coming from the Rec. Module that you don't need since you could just roll up a Rec. Ship or a Rec. Station to periodically... relieve the crew. Since you won't be launching unless you are under attack.
Posted by: TheTalkingMeowth
« on: November 30, 2020, 04:56:57 PM »

Quote from: xenoscepter on November 30, 2020, 04:32:02 PM
- I use corvettes, as well as fighter garrisons... but then again I don't defend my Jump Points usually... IMO anything worth really defending is worth parking a few real warships at. Anything else is worth retaking, anything not worth either is worth losing. My defenses focus on PPV and slowing the enemy down, buying time for a local defense fleet and /or the "real fleets" to show up. I use multi-layered defenses including STOs to protect my planets... as far as I'm concerned if the aliens want to occupy space, they can have it. I'd rather let them have to dedicate resources to defending and occupying things that have no real value.

 - But, YMMV. I'd suggest Commercial Hangars on "Missile Bases" You tuck little fighters that are naught but missile tubes with an M-FCS, one or two Sensor elements to spot for 'em, and shove 'em into a commercial hangar with an Ordinance Transfer System. The Commercial ship has no deployment needs, and the missile tubes have their deployment clocks AND their Maintenance clocks frozen when docked, so it's good enough for a defense system. The Ordinance Transfer System will let them be reloaded from a Commercial Magazine by launching them, a small 50-Ton magazine and 0.3x Reduced Size Launchers in them might be useful here, too.

Commercial hangars do not freeze maintenance clocks. At least, they aren't supposed to.
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg103584#msg103584
Posted by: xenoscepter
« on: November 30, 2020, 04:32:02 PM »

 - I use corvettes, as well as fighter garrisons... but then again I don't defend my Jump Points usually... IMO anything worth really defending is worth parking a few real warships at. Anything else is worth retaking, anything not worth either is worth losing. My defenses focus on PPV and slowing the enemy down, buying time for a local defense fleet and /or the "real fleets" to show up. I use multi-layered defenses including STOs to protect my planets... as far as I'm concerned if the aliens want to occupy space, they can have it. I'd rather let them have to dedicate resources to defending and occupying things that have no real value.

 - But, YMMV. I'd suggest Commercial Hangars on "Missile Bases" You tuck little fighters that are naught but missile tubes with an M-FCS, one or two Sensor elements to spot for 'em, and shove 'em into a commercial hangar with an Ordinance Transfer System. The Commercial ship has no deployment needs, and the missile tubes have their deployment clocks AND their Maintenance clocks frozen when docked, so it's good enough for a defense system. The Ordinance Transfer System will let them be reloaded from a Commercial Magazine by launching them, a small 50-Ton magazine and 0.3x Reduced Size Launchers in them might be useful here, too.
Posted by: Bremen
« on: November 30, 2020, 04:17:48 PM »

I guess if you already have the maintenance and recreation modules on site, you don't even need the fighter bases. You can just have a carrier drop off a bunch of fighters or other ships with minimal engineering and endurance options, and have them float around waiting. Though make sure you keep regular resupply runs of MSP coming or all the fighters will explode when you run out.

The downside, of course, is that the maintenance and recreation ships will be enormous targets if something comes through and doesn't instantly die. But I suppose that's also true of fighter bases.
Posted by: TheTalkingMeowth
« on: November 30, 2020, 02:49:34 PM »

Quote from: Droll on November 30, 2020, 02:31:53 PM
Quote from: TheTalkingMeowth on November 30, 2020, 02:29:37 PM
I'd second everything Bremen said, here. Jump shock is a bit overrated, especially against NPRs that suffer half the value humans do.

One thing he left out, though, is MICROWAVES. Smack those ships with high power microwaves when they come through and they won't get to shoot at all. Then apply weapons of your choice until lightly singed.

A jump point with a pile of microwave FAC sitting on it is bloody awful to assault. If you don't have heavy shields, you lose all your fire controls before you get to shoot back.

This will not work against enemies that have good EM hardening. All my stuff has a 5% chance to get touched by microwaves - though it does make the FCs more expensive.

True! Spying saves lives.
Posted by: Droll
« on: November 30, 2020, 02:31:53 PM »

Quote from: TheTalkingMeowth on November 30, 2020, 02:29:37 PM
I'd second everything Bremen said, here. Jump shock is a bit overrated, especially against NPRs that suffer half the value humans do.

One thing he left out, though, is MICROWAVES. Smack those ships with high power microwaves when they come through and they won't get to shoot at all. Then apply weapons of your choice until lightly singed.

A jump point with a pile of microwave FAC sitting on it is bloody awful to assault. If you don't have heavy shields, you lose all your fire controls before you get to shoot back.

This will not work against enemies that have good EM hardening. All my stuff has a 5% chance to get touched by microwaves - though it does make the FCs more expensive.
Posted by: TheTalkingMeowth
« on: November 30, 2020, 02:29:37 PM »

I'd second everything Bremen said, here. Jump shock is a bit overrated, especially against NPRs that suffer half the value humans do.

One thing he left out, though, is MICROWAVES. Smack those ships with high power microwaves when they come through and they won't get to shoot at all. Then apply weapons of your choice until lightly singed.

A jump point with a pile of microwave FAC sitting on it is bloody awful to assault. If you don't have heavy shields, you lose all your fire controls before you get to shoot back.
Posted by: Bremen
« on: November 30, 2020, 02:14:59 PM »

You can actually make a strong argument for a far side jump point defense, because then you can jump back through the point to avoid incoming missiles, which is also an enormous tactical advantage. Both have their own pros and cons, IMHO.

My preferred near side JP defense is box launcher missile bases. I used to like beam fighter bases, but the meson nerfs hit that tactic hard.

As great as giant beam bases might sound, they have issues in practice. If the enemy comes through in squadron jumps they could already be hundreds of thousands of kilometers away, robbing you of the chance for a point blank salvo, and while jump shock prevents weapons fire it does not disable engines so they can immediately run away. So generally you'd get one shot at medium-ish range and then the enemy will pull back, and if they have missiles and you don't say goodbye to your beam bases once jump shock ends. Ton for ton, one shot from heavy beams at anything but point blank range can't really compare to the damage missiles can dish out.

Jump shock also isn't as big an advantage as some people think. Some ships will start recovering within 10-20 seconds, with others taking longer, so mostly it just buys you the first shot and probably disrupts some of their PD with the first missile salvo. Of course, getting in the first shot can be pretty huge, especially if you're using box launchers or (if you're still going with beams) massive spinal weapons. Beam fighters don't benefit much from getting the first salvo, but they can keep use high rate of fire weapons to wear enemies down and starting combat point blank with enemy fighters is a bad tactical position, and short of a massive technology gap they're going to be very hard to run from.

A third option might be some sort of FAC/parasite warship base with ships just large enough to carry a heavy spinal beam weapon. That would combine the advantage of heavy beam defenses while providing a platform the enemy can't just fly out of range of.
Posted by: Iestwyn
« on: November 30, 2020, 02:04:19 PM »

Wow, an excellent series of answers already! I think I'll get working on it now... thanks!
Posted by: Barkhorn
« on: November 30, 2020, 12:33:49 PM »

I use 30,000 ton laser turret bases.  The bases are heavily shielded, since they can't rely on speed to evade return fire.  I keep them on station 24/7, by including maintenance and R&R stations at the same location.