Posted by: TheTalkingMeowth
« on: December 15, 2020, 02:42:05 PM »Yeah, but I thought if a non-diplo ship can see MY diplo ship, their opinion of me will go up.
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: December 15, 2020, 01:45:40 PM »I thought you could talk to non-diplo ships (or just diplo ships that don't currently have anyone assigned).
Normal ships can ask you to leave, but only diplomatic ships can try to improve relations.
Posted by: TheTalkingMeowth
« on: December 15, 2020, 12:35:30 PM »I thought you could talk to non-diplo ships (or just diplo ships that don't currently have anyone assigned).
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: December 15, 2020, 04:29:41 AM »If nothing else, some sort of feedback so I know when the ship I was talking to has frakked off out of the system, rather than finding out I've had a diplomatic ship sitting on a jump point not talking to anybody for 5 years.
If you aren't receiving updates about the relationship with the aliens, their diplo ship has left.
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: December 15, 2020, 04:28:47 AM »It's not realistic to know the exact NPR view of your race. However, you can infer a lot about the relationship status by what the NPR does. If it gives trade treaties or higher, the status is improving. If those treaties are rescinded, then the status is going down. If NPR messages become more urgent, then the status is going down.
See my latest campaign for a good example of this. It was obvious from the NPR messages that hostilities were getting closer.
You should not be in a situation where you are surprised that an NPR suddenly attacks.
See my latest campaign for a good example of this. It was obvious from the NPR messages that hostilities were getting closer.
You should not be in a situation where you are surprised that an NPR suddenly attacks.
Posted by: vorpal+5
« on: December 15, 2020, 01:14:28 AM »As a side note, I have my fellows Earthlings mass producing diplo ships. China just launched its 15th. Don't know if this is 'normal', although your millage may vary!
Posted by: TheTalkingMeowth
« on: December 14, 2020, 07:53:40 PM »So I guess I don't really agree with your suggestion that reciprocal diplomacy needs to be a thing. I would love to be able to find out NPR opinion on me somehow in-game but that's about it.
It is possible to find this out through the intelligence mechanics. One of the espionage 'rewards' is learning the target race's opinion of another race, which could be your own race.
I'm with Garfunkel on this point; some form of feedback would be nice. Our diplomats should be able to gather some coarse information about their mood during their discussions. Perhaps some diplomats would be better at it than others.
But mainly it would help if it looked from time to time as if our diplomatic ships were accomplishing something.
If nothing else, some sort of feedback so I know when the ship I was talking to has frakked off out of the system, rather than finding out I've had a diplomatic ship sitting on a jump point not talking to anybody for 5 years.
Posted by: xenoscepter
« on: December 14, 2020, 07:36:15 PM »Quote
(Diplomat name) on board (Ship Name) believes our relationship with (Empire Name) has (greatly/slightly/moderately + improved/worsened/ remains broadly unchanged) since the last report.
- This would actually be better if we had a "Status Report" order, both on a per ship basis and a per fleet basis... maybe with a checkbox to give the order to all sub-fleets and / or all fleets within a naval command(s). Prevents log clutter AND allows us a more RP friendly way of checking up on a ship.
- Status Report for a diplo ship could be affected by intelligence level, too. "We think we've made good progress" versus, "We're pretty sure we are making good progress, but intel says otherwise." versus, "We are confident in our progress and intel is, too." Other ships might be, "We're low on fuel / MSP / etc.", "Our life support systems are failing.", "Minor atmosphere venting, life support damaged, but holding", "Venting across multiple decks, Reactor leak detected, Jump Drive is damaged and Damage Control underway, but insufficient supply to repair the Jump Drive."
- And so on and so forth. No idea how hard that might be though.
Posted by: Migi
« on: December 14, 2020, 06:38:07 PM »Quote
(Diplomat name) on board (Ship Name) believes our relationship with (Empire Name) has (greatly/slightly/moderately + improved/worsened/ remains broadly unchanged) since the last report.
It would make the log more cluttered, no doubt someone will complain about that.
Posted by: nuclearslurpee
« on: December 14, 2020, 06:23:20 PM »So I guess I don't really agree with your suggestion that reciprocal diplomacy needs to be a thing. I would love to be able to find out NPR opinion on me somehow in-game but that's about it.
It is possible to find this out through the intelligence mechanics. One of the espionage 'rewards' is learning the target race's opinion of another race, which could be your own race.
I'm with Garfunkel on this point; some form of feedback would be nice. Our diplomats should be able to gather some coarse information about their mood during their discussions. Perhaps some diplomats would be better at it than others.
But mainly it would help if it looked from time to time as if our diplomatic ships were accomplishing something.
I'd second this. Right now the breakpoints between different diplomatic relations are quite far apart and there's little way to sense any change in the diplomatic winds until trade relations suddenly break down. Maybe an absolute indication isn't necessary but some one-line indicator that relations are trending upwards would be useful.
Posted by: db48x
« on: December 14, 2020, 03:52:27 PM »So I guess I don't really agree with your suggestion that reciprocal diplomacy needs to be a thing. I would love to be able to find out NPR opinion on me somehow in-game but that's about it.
It is possible to find this out through the intelligence mechanics. One of the espionage 'rewards' is learning the target race's opinion of another race, which could be your own race.
I'm with Garfunkel on this point; some form of feedback would be nice. Our diplomats should be able to gather some coarse information about their mood during their discussions. Perhaps some diplomats would be better at it than others.
But mainly it would help if it looked from time to time as if our diplomatic ships were accomplishing something.
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: December 14, 2020, 01:09:53 PM »So I guess I don't really agree with your suggestion that reciprocal diplomacy needs to be a thing. I would love to be able to find out NPR opinion on me somehow in-game but that's about it.
It is possible to find this out through the intelligence mechanics. One of the espionage 'rewards' is learning the target race's opinion of another race, which could be your own race.
Posted by: Garfunkel
« on: December 14, 2020, 12:40:09 PM »Well, not entirely wrong Steve ... although not completely to the point, in that Stalin did not like Germany or Hitler and -- from my knowledge -- Russia/Stalin was preparing for a war around 43 with Germany. So he bid his time, not believing Hitler would be fool enough to attack Russia first.While this veers into off-topic, as a historian I have to point out that the situation between Germany and the USSR from 1939 to 1941 actually fits really well into the Aurora diplomatic model. From an antagonistic situation, both sides employed diplomatic teams in their respective capitals, they ceased propaganda aimed at the other, and they discussed which "systems" belong to one or the other, making compromises there. The Soviets were happily sending trainloads of goods into Germany even in the last day of peace while Germany was putting the finishing touches on their invasion plan.
Aurora's problem is that it doesn't model the other type of human diplomacy, where shared values and/or ideologies create alliances that last for decades despite occasional stresses caused at them. And because we in the West are viewing diplomacy mostly through that side of it, we tend to forget or dismiss the other, more pragmatic/realpolitik version.
So I guess I don't really agree with your suggestion that reciprocal diplomacy needs to be a thing. I would love to be able to find out NPR opinion on me somehow in-game but that's about it.
Posted by: nuclearslurpee
« on: December 13, 2020, 11:35:24 AM »If you think of it as "trust", I don't see why it can't make sense. China views you with suspicion because you keep violating their territorial limits. You view China with relative trust because they behave themselves. Makes sense to me. All diplo score really means is "we trust Race B to stick to the deal this much".
Also, again 1600 player diplomacy score is not the same as 1600 AI diplomacy score. There are legitimately different mechanics under the hood regarding player and AI diplomatic scores, which are necessary due to the deterministic nature of the AI. The player diplo score is not really "we like China pretty well", it's more "we trust China enough that we're pretty sure they won't use jump gate access to launch a sneak attack on Earth". Which, if you're at the same time scouting around in their protected systems, translates to "we think China is a pushover". That's really all it means, you might be scheming something but that sort of backstabbery is completely outside of the diplomacy mechanics.
Also, again 1600 player diplomacy score is not the same as 1600 AI diplomacy score. There are legitimately different mechanics under the hood regarding player and AI diplomatic scores, which are necessary due to the deterministic nature of the AI. The player diplo score is not really "we like China pretty well", it's more "we trust China enough that we're pretty sure they won't use jump gate access to launch a sneak attack on Earth". Which, if you're at the same time scouting around in their protected systems, translates to "we think China is a pushover". That's really all it means, you might be scheming something but that sort of backstabbery is completely outside of the diplomacy mechanics.
Posted by: vorpal+5
« on: December 13, 2020, 05:11:53 AM »Well, not entirely wrong Steve ... although not completely to the point, in that Stalin did not like Germany or Hitler and -- from my knowledge -- Russia/Stalin was preparing for a war around 43 with Germany. So he bid his time, not believing Hitler would be fool enough to attack Russia first.
And it did not last. Only a few years. But I see you are not convinced and you will probably keep this non-reciprocity I guess ... I still believe it leads to more weird or difficult to believe situations than reciprocal relationships.
Relationships is probably more about trust than 'love' in any case. I'm bothering seriously the Chinese in my scenario, their relationships toward me fell to 300, while I'm still at 1600 with them. It seems not very ... believable. Let say I'm a NPR and not a meat bag in control. My empire, as NPR is keeping scouts and whatnot in their territory, refusing to yield to their demands to evacuate. So they (CHI) have a 300 toward the infringing NPR. Should this NPR keeps its 1600 toward CHI, knowing it is -- on purpose -- not yielding to their demands, because it has a plan?
I don't think so. So the 1600 are not justified. This NPR, infringing on the Chinese, does not trust or love them. He is scheming for something. A reciprocal 300 would make more sense.
And it did not last. Only a few years. But I see you are not convinced and you will probably keep this non-reciprocity I guess ... I still believe it leads to more weird or difficult to believe situations than reciprocal relationships.
Relationships is probably more about trust than 'love' in any case. I'm bothering seriously the Chinese in my scenario, their relationships toward me fell to 300, while I'm still at 1600 with them. It seems not very ... believable. Let say I'm a NPR and not a meat bag in control. My empire, as NPR is keeping scouts and whatnot in their territory, refusing to yield to their demands to evacuate. So they (CHI) have a 300 toward the infringing NPR. Should this NPR keeps its 1600 toward CHI, knowing it is -- on purpose -- not yielding to their demands, because it has a plan?
I don't think so. So the 1600 are not justified. This NPR, infringing on the Chinese, does not trust or love them. He is scheming for something. A reciprocal 300 would make more sense.
