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Posted by: nakorkren
« on: August 04, 2024, 05:06:03 PM »

Has anyone done the math on survivability of a size 99 missile (let's call it what it is, it's a torpedo!) vs some sort of half-decent PD? I was messing around with prototypes and threw 30 decoys on a torpedo, which seems about the right balance of MSP to engines (50), warhead (25), and decoys (15). that's a lot of decoys, but I think you get diminishing returns on number of decoys, so not sure how likely torpedos are to get through. They sure do make an impact if/when they hit, though... ~150 damage for the tech level I'm at, which is no slouch!
Posted by: SpaceMarine
« on: July 28, 2024, 08:25:00 AM »

Much appreciated, thank you steve
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: July 28, 2024, 05:15:14 AM »

Quote from: SpaceMarine on July 27, 2024, 08:41:59 PM
Quote from: GodEmperor on July 27, 2024, 04:11:28 PM
Missile.

Pretend missiles are MAC rounds, launchers are MAC cannons and just handwave the guidance somehow.

Alternatively - Spinal Lasers.

Yep thats my plan now, thanks to everyone for the suggestions and Steve I would be a very happy man if you allowed us bigger than size 99 missile launchers

I've increased to 200. That is 500 tons, so the same size as a fighter.
Posted by: SpaceMarine
« on: July 27, 2024, 08:41:59 PM »

Quote from: GodEmperor on July 27, 2024, 04:11:28 PM
Missile.

Pretend missiles are MAC rounds, launchers are MAC cannons and just handwave the guidance somehow.

Alternatively - Spinal Lasers.

Yep thats my plan now, thanks to everyone for the suggestions and Steve I would be a very happy man if you allowed us bigger than size 99 missile launchers
Posted by: GodEmperor
« on: July 27, 2024, 05:02:45 PM »

Quote from: Steve Walmsley on July 27, 2024, 04:50:31 PM
Quote from: GodEmperor on July 27, 2024, 04:11:28 PM
Missile.

Pretend missiles are MAC rounds, launchers are MAC cannons and just handwave the guidance somehow.

Alternatively - Spinal Lasers.

Missiles is a good idea. You could create a huge launcher firing shots with massive warheads, with very short range and very high speed. Lots of decoys to help it get through defences.
Personally id use decoys as a substitute for armour and RP the "missile" not being destroyed because its not easy to just destroy a hunk of tungsten flying at X part of c.
Posted by: Warer
« on: July 27, 2024, 04:59:37 PM »

Quote from: Steve Walmsley on July 27, 2024, 04:50:31 PM
Quote from: GodEmperor on July 27, 2024, 04:11:28 PM
Missile.

Pretend missiles are MAC rounds, launchers are MAC cannons and just handwave the guidance somehow.

Alternatively - Spinal Lasers.

Missiles is a good idea. You could create a huge launcher firing shots with massive warheads, with very short range and very high speed. Lots of decoys to help it get through defences.
Yeah that works really well! Being able to make size 100+ missiles would be neat too for the people who like truly oversized ships.

Now that I think about with some houserules you could make missiles act as cannons, if your something of a masochist you could even go with using missiles with active sensors and only shoot at waypoints to simulate actual gunnery.
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: July 27, 2024, 04:50:31 PM »

Quote from: GodEmperor on July 27, 2024, 04:11:28 PM
Missile.

Pretend missiles are MAC rounds, launchers are MAC cannons and just handwave the guidance somehow.

Alternatively - Spinal Lasers.

Missiles is a good idea. You could create a huge launcher firing shots with massive warheads, with very short range and very high speed. Lots of decoys to help it get through defences.
Posted by: GodEmperor
« on: July 27, 2024, 04:11:28 PM »

Missile.

Pretend missiles are MAC rounds, launchers are MAC cannons and just handwave the guidance somehow.

Alternatively - Spinal Lasers.
Posted by: SpaceMarine
« on: July 25, 2024, 10:42:11 PM »

Quote from: nuclearslurpee on July 25, 2024, 10:38:47 PM
Quote from: SpaceMarine on July 25, 2024, 10:21:52 PM
With enough decoys, ATG and as much speed as you can give it, its got a decent shot of getting through, i think for something like a super mac on a OWP I will have them mount 3 size 99 launchers to represent rapid fire SMAC fire so 3 rounds in a burst etc. my only sad thing around this is, you cant make missile launchers bigger than 99 (why steve? come on pls give). so I cant have a literal 3000t projectile which they have in lore at most i can have a 1225t round

To be fair, if you are saying that ships are 1/5 to 1/20 their canonical sizes, a 1225 ton round works for the job, in fact it is a bit overkill at that ratio. Unfortunately however we are stuck with 247.5-ton projectiles (99 MSP * 2.5 tons/MSP) which implies just about a 1/12 ratio, solidly in the middle of that range but an unfortunate upper limit.

Maybe this should go into the suggestions thread, but instead of MACs say it is for Nova Cannons, Steve likes WH40K so that may pander more.  ;)

Yea i cant get the ratios right perfectly, but 1/12 ratio isnt bad I am basing that 1225t number based off a 5x increase on size due to projectiles in halo lore using mass not volume to specifiy size, its as close as you can about get. and yea we should *Cough* suggest to steve to increase the max size of missile launchers.
Posted by: nuclearslurpee
« on: July 25, 2024, 10:38:47 PM »

Quote from: SpaceMarine on July 25, 2024, 10:21:52 PM
With enough decoys, ATG and as much speed as you can give it, its got a decent shot of getting through, i think for something like a super mac on a OWP I will have them mount 3 size 99 launchers to represent rapid fire SMAC fire so 3 rounds in a burst etc. my only sad thing around this is, you cant make missile launchers bigger than 99 (why steve? come on pls give). so I cant have a literal 3000t projectile which they have in lore at most i can have a 1225t round

To be fair, if you are saying that ships are 1/5 to 1/20 their canonical sizes, a 1225 ton round works for the job, in fact it is a bit overkill at that ratio. Unfortunately however we are stuck with 247.5-ton projectiles (99 MSP * 2.5 tons/MSP) which implies just about a 1/12 ratio, solidly in the middle of that range but an unfortunate upper limit.

Maybe this should go into the suggestions thread, but instead of MACs say it is for Nova Cannons, Steve likes WH40K so that may pander more.  ;)
Posted by: SpaceMarine
« on: July 25, 2024, 10:21:52 PM »

Quote from: nuclearslurpee on July 25, 2024, 10:19:26 PM
Quote from: Panopticon on July 25, 2024, 04:43:56 PM
You might consider going a very different route and using a super missile. Make it some ridiculous size, keep it short range, and dump a ton of MSP into engine and warhead. Give it a custom name.

Quote from: SpaceMarine on July 25, 2024, 06:44:45 PM
Toying around with the idea of using missiles, heres an example of what a ship at 30kt using gas core tech would have, its 5000 tons of space to mount this between the magazine and the launcher, the launcher is a "light" MAC, aka a size 60 full reload rate missile launcher, and the magazine has enough capacity to store 10 kinetic rounds

At my relatively low tech level the "Missile" in question is not the most impressive but still two of them will destroy one of my current mainline frigates if they get through, i have stacked it with decoys and terminal guidance to give it the best chance it can, but of course more experimentation will be needed i have done some tests and it seems viable at actually getting through PD atleast on a localised level. also who doesnt like a 750 metric ton projectile being fired 31,333km/s towards aliens.

I did something similar in a WH40K setup to represent the Nova Cannon. This was before 2.2, so we did not have decoys so I ended up making the Nova Cannon round break into a couple dozen submunitions to have some chance of beating point defense. Never got to fire it though... nowadays with decoys you can probably make something pretty strong against enemy PD.

With enough decoys, ATG and as much speed as you can give it, its got a decent shot of getting through, i think for something like a super mac on a OWP I will have them mount 3 size 99 launchers to represent rapid fire SMAC fire so 3 rounds in a burst etc. my only sad thing around this is, you cant make missile launchers bigger than 99 (why steve? come on pls give). so I cant have a literal 3000t projectile which they have in lore at most i can have a 1225t round
Posted by: nuclearslurpee
« on: July 25, 2024, 10:19:26 PM »

Quote from: Panopticon on July 25, 2024, 04:43:56 PM
You might consider going a very different route and using a super missile. Make it some ridiculous size, keep it short range, and dump a ton of MSP into engine and warhead. Give it a custom name.

Quote from: SpaceMarine on July 25, 2024, 06:44:45 PM
Toying around with the idea of using missiles, heres an example of what a ship at 30kt using gas core tech would have, its 5000 tons of space to mount this between the magazine and the launcher, the launcher is a "light" MAC, aka a size 60 full reload rate missile launcher, and the magazine has enough capacity to store 10 kinetic rounds

At my relatively low tech level the "Missile" in question is not the most impressive but still two of them will destroy one of my current mainline frigates if they get through, i have stacked it with decoys and terminal guidance to give it the best chance it can, but of course more experimentation will be needed i have done some tests and it seems viable at actually getting through PD atleast on a localised level. also who doesnt like a 750 metric ton projectile being fired 31,333km/s towards aliens.

I did something similar in a WH40K setup to represent the Nova Cannon. This was before 2.2, so we did not have decoys so I ended up making the Nova Cannon round break into a couple dozen submunitions to have some chance of beating point defense. Never got to fire it though... nowadays with decoys you can probably make something pretty strong against enemy PD.
Posted by: SpaceMarine
« on: July 25, 2024, 06:44:45 PM »

Toying around with the idea of using missiles, heres an example of what a ship at 30kt using gas core tech would have, its 5000 tons of space to mount this between the magazine and the launcher, the launcher is a "light" MAC, aka a size 60 full reload rate missile launcher, and the magazine has enough capacity to store 10 kinetic rounds

Code: [Select]
XM1000 class Frigate (P)      30,000 tons       667 Crew       3,865.7 BP       TCS 600    TH 1,800    EM 0
3000 km/s    JR 3-50      Armour 5-86       Shields 0-0       HTK 138      Sensors 6/6/0/0      DCR 14-4      PPV 176.88
Maint Life 1.02 Years     MSP 1,143    AFR 507%    IFR 7.0%    1YR 1,093    5YR 16,402    Max Repair 600 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 500 tons     Troop Capacity 1,000 tons     Boarding Capable    Magazine 1,236 / 0   
Captain    Control Rating 3   BRG   AUX   ENG   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Flight Crew Berths 10    Morale Check Required   

Shaw-Fujikawa Translight Engine M30K-3-5     Max Ship Size 30000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3

Riopel-Rimando Drive Systems K90 Fusion Drive (2)    Power 1800    Fuel Use 90.00%    Signature 900    Explosion 15%
Fuel Capacity 3,159,000 Litres    Range 21.1 billion km (81 days at full power)

M840 Bulwark Point Defence Turret (4x6)    Range 10,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Point Defence FCS (1)     Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s    ECCM-0     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0

M24 Defender missile pods (96)     Missile Size: 6    Hangar Reload 122 minutes    MF Reload 20 hours
(Light)10L6R8 Magnetic Accelerator Cannon (1)     Missile Size: 60    Rate of Fire 80
MFCS-22-150 (1)     Range 22.8m km    Resolution 150
Mk 8 Defender ASM (96)    Speed: 28,000 km/s    End: 6.1m     Range: 10.2m km    WH: 6    Size: 6    TH: 93/56/28
XM1039 Kinetic Energy Projector Round (11)    Speed: 31,333 km/s    End: 0.3m     Range: 0.6m km    WH: 38.8    Size: 60.00    TH: 120/72/36

Cayouette Electronics AS56/R150 Radar array (1)     GPS 9000     Range 56.9m km    Resolution 150
Cayouette Electronics AS4/R1 Radar array (1)     GPS 12     Range 4.8m km    MCR 430.9k km    Resolution 1
Cayouette Electronics Industries T10-60 Thermal Sensor Suite (1)     Sensitivity 6     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  19.4m km
Cayouette Electronics Industries F10-60 EM Sensor Suite (1)     Sensitivity 6     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  19.4m km

Strike Group / Ground Forces
1x Epoch Scout   Speed: 2254 km/s    Size: 9.98
4x Marine Company
At my relatively low tech level the "Missile" in question is not the most impressive but still two of them will destroy one of my current mainline frigates if they get through, i have stacked it with decoys and terminal guidance to give it the best chance it can, but of course more experimentation will be needed i have done some tests and it seems viable at actually getting through PD atleast on a localised level. also who doesnt like a 750 metric ton projectile being fired 31,333km/s towards aliens.
Posted by: non sequitur
« on: July 25, 2024, 05:42:34 PM »

They way I have done it when I have tried designing Halo ships is use spinal lasers and then create a system using my largest non-spinal laser caliber and call it "secondary MAC."
Posted by: SpaceMarine
« on: July 25, 2024, 05:42:13 PM »

Quote from: Panopticon on July 25, 2024, 05:38:42 PM
Yeah, it def would take some non-optimal missile design, but it would allow for the flexibility that MAC rounds have, also would be able to replicate their range, in universe they are the longest range weapons humans have, and in Aurora you get stuck with the energy weapon range cap.

If we can think of a way to make it a viable weapon that can actually hit things i will 100% do it because yea it does allow a lot of in lore representation and say a size 80 missile launcher is 4000t at full reload which is a significant part of a ship, and if it does hit the warhead strength can 1 shot a 22500t vessel i have built