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Topic Summary

Posted by: Garfunkel
« on: October 26, 2024, 09:42:24 PM »

Quote from: Steve Walmsley on September 04, 2024, 04:41:40 AM
Quote from: mostly_harmless on September 04, 2024, 03:32:27 AM
On this topic, I came across an issue where adding Frigusium now increases the temperature of Mercury.
I understand from Ultimoos's post that there is a limit on how much Frigusium is going to help. But why would it increase temperatures again if adding more?
And its not the eccentricity effect. I see the increase in both Minimum and Maximum temperature.

Because every gas increases the greenhouse effect (in reality and in Aurora). A 'greenhouse gas' is just one that does it a lot more effectively.

I somehow managed to forget that and was pulling my hair out wondering what's going on. Thanks for the reminder!
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: September 05, 2024, 01:35:17 PM »

Quote from: skoormit on September 05, 2024, 12:34:45 PM
Quote from: Steve Walmsley on September 04, 2024, 04:50:36 PM
(F) means a gas that is frozen on the surface, not in the atmosphere.

Albedo works the same in the game (more ice means lower temperature), but is not connected to the gases marked with (F). It is based on the amount of ice coverage, so when the water melts, the temperature rises (and vice versa).

Importantly, though, albedo in the game is a surface heat multiplier. Higher albedo = hotter surface.
IRL, higher albedo = more light reflected (therefore colder surface).

Yes, that was deliberate to make it easier for players to understand the mechanic.
Posted by: skoormit
« on: September 05, 2024, 12:34:45 PM »

Quote from: Steve Walmsley on September 04, 2024, 04:50:36 PM
(F) means a gas that is frozen on the surface, not in the atmosphere.

Albedo works the same in the game (more ice means lower temperature), but is not connected to the gases marked with (F). It is based on the amount of ice coverage, so when the water melts, the temperature rises (and vice versa).

Importantly, though, albedo in the game is a surface heat multiplier. Higher albedo = hotter surface.
IRL, higher albedo = more light reflected (therefore colder surface).
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: September 04, 2024, 04:50:36 PM »

(F) means a gas that is frozen on the surface, not in the atmosphere.

Albedo works the same in the game (more ice means lower temperature), but is not connected to the gases marked with (F). It is based on the amount of ice coverage, so when the water melts, the temperature rises (and vice versa).
Posted by: paolot
« on: September 04, 2024, 04:28:16 PM »

Quote from: Snoman314 on December 07, 2023, 08:35:47 AM
...
Pretty sure that stands for Frozen, or something. Indicates that the hydrographic extent is affecting the albedo, or something like that (All the water is going to white reflective ice, reflecting sunlight and lowering the albedo and therefore surface temperature).

Not correct. More ice covering, i.e. more white surface, increases the albedo; see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albedo
Higher albedo means higher light reflection, therefore more star's energy is reflected back to space, so body temperature tends to decrease.
The exact opposite is happening now to Earth: less ice at the poles and on the mountains is increasing the energy captured by dark soil and sea, so causing an increase in the planet temperature.
Posted by: mostly_harmless
« on: September 04, 2024, 05:49:25 AM »

Quote from: Steve Walmsley on September 04, 2024, 04:41:40 AM
Quote from: mostly_harmless on September 04, 2024, 03:32:27 AM
On this topic, I came across an issue where adding Frigusium now increases the temperature of Mercury.
I understand from Ultimoos's post that there is a limit on how much Frigusium is going to help. But why would it increase temperatures again if adding more?
And its not the eccentricity effect. I see the increase in both Minimum and Maximum temperature.

Because every gas increases the greenhouse effect (in reality and in Aurora). A 'greenhouse gas' is just one that does it a lot more effectively.
That makes sense.
Thank you for the speedy reply.
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: September 04, 2024, 04:41:40 AM »

Quote from: mostly_harmless on September 04, 2024, 03:32:27 AM
On this topic, I came across an issue where adding Frigusium now increases the temperature of Mercury.
I understand from Ultimoos's post that there is a limit on how much Frigusium is going to help. But why would it increase temperatures again if adding more?
And its not the eccentricity effect. I see the increase in both Minimum and Maximum temperature.

Because every gas increases the greenhouse effect (in reality and in Aurora). A 'greenhouse gas' is just one that does it a lot more effectively.
Posted by: mostly_harmless
« on: September 04, 2024, 03:32:27 AM »

On this topic, I came across an issue where adding Frigusium now increases the temperature of Mercury.
I understand from Ultimoos's post that there is a limit on how much Frigusium is going to help. But why would it increase temperatures again if adding more?
And its not the eccentricity effect. I see the increase in both Minimum and Maximum temperature.

I created a genetic modified Mercurian race that can stomach more temperature variation. And I am converting the baseline Humans on Mercury, who on my eccentric Mercury will always require a bit of Infrastructure, to the new more tolerant Mercurians. Could it be related to having two colonies on the same planet?
Posted by: bankshot
« on: December 07, 2023, 09:24:29 AM »

You will need almost 2 atm of Frigisium to bring Mercury down to ideal temperature.  Water will not condense and become hydrographic until temps are below 100C.  If temps fluctuate above/below this it will undergo cycles of condensing and evaporating (I see this on one of my highly eccentric wet planets).  Depending on Mercury's eccentricity you may or may not be able to bring it to colony cost to zero.  In my current game the eccentricity is high enough that temps swing from -16 to 44, so while most of the time it is CC 0 it does increase to 0.05 at perihelion and aphelion.

F stands for frozen gas.  This can be water or other gases like ammonia, methane or even hydrogen if the planet is cold enough.  While frozen it does not count towards atmospheric pressure.  If you raise the temperature the gas can unfreeze and add to atmospheric pressure/conditions.  Note atmospheric frozen water vapor can still precipitate out into hydrographic ice. 
Posted by: Ultimoos
« on: December 07, 2023, 09:05:05 AM »

Just to give you heads up, there is a limit the effect greenhouse and anti-greenhouse gases can have in game. For both the factor is limited to 3. Once you reach it, no amount of frigusium will cool temperature further.
Posted by: Snoman314
« on: December 07, 2023, 08:35:47 AM »

Quote from: Kaiser on December 07, 2023, 08:13:41 AM
I guess that's the meaning of this (F) next to water vapor on other bodies, condensing or something?

Pretty sure that stands for Frozen, or something. Indicates that the hydrographic extent is affecting the albedo, or something like that (All the water is going to white reflective ice, reflecting sunlight and lowering the albedo and therefore surface temperature).
Posted by: Kaiser
« on: December 07, 2023, 08:13:41 AM »

I guess that's the meaning of this (F) next to water vapor on other bodies, condensing or something?
Posted by: Snoman314
« on: December 07, 2023, 08:09:31 AM »

The water vapour you're adding is not condensing, because the surface temperature is still nearly 400 degrees Celsius. You need to add a _lot_ more frigusium to get the temperature down first. Even at the coldest point of the orbit, the temperature is still way above boiling.
Posted by: Kaiser
« on: December 07, 2023, 08:05:07 AM »

And why is the hydrographic extent not increasing on Mercury?

Posted by: Andrew
« on: December 07, 2023, 07:05:32 AM »

Orbit is not circular so base surface temperture changes with distance from sun