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Posted by: Kaiser
« on: October 01, 2024, 07:20:27 AM »

Ooohhh Steve, thank you that finally We can use alien missile stockpiled, no offence but every time I was in the situation I could not use these missiles I had this bitter feeling of a broken game :)

Also, I like the idea that we cannot produce more of these missiles.
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: October 01, 2024, 06:37:28 AM »

I've added the following updates to the Changes Log for v2.6

Converting Alien Components http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=13463.msg171609#msg171609

Researching Alien Components http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=13463.msg171610#msg171610

Researching Alien Missiles http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=13463.msg171613#msg171613
Posted by: MinuteMan
« on: October 01, 2024, 05:11:57 AM »

Quote from: Steve Walmsley on October 01, 2024, 02:05:23 AM
Quote from: Zap0 on September 30, 2024, 06:33:16 PM
You may still run into unconverted components sometimes when you advance in tech between getting them and eventually using them, but that's an edge case.

An important one though. Maybe the original idea of converting them manually is best. I could add a 'Modify for Use' button to the Stockpile window (alongside scrap and disassemble) and highlight the eligible ones in a different colour (like green for those will generate research points). Plus another button and colour for those that could be researched.

The manual option has my preference.
So those that want to use it, can and others can ignore it.
I always dismantle or scrap alien components. Never use them.

As a sidenote:
Personally, I've always found it weird that when we salvage a ship we immediately know which component it is and all its attributes. Together with knowing how to use it.
I've got the same feeling about "boarding" ships from another alien race and being able to fly it away with zero knowledge about how the aliens technology works.
But I know that the current implementation might be a gameplay abstraction.
 
Posted by: mostly_harmless
« on: October 01, 2024, 03:16:16 AM »

Quote from: nuclearslurpee on September 30, 2024, 07:03:10 PM

That being said, if we're going to make this change we should also make alien ordnance usable when captured, IMO.

I would rank using alien ordnance a priority as well, if changes are made in this regard.
I am repeatedly capturing alien ships to add them to my fleets. Along with missile stockpiles.
So I have the ship (which my crews can operate), I have the missile launchers and I have a stockpile of the intended missiles. But cant do anything with it.
I am currently SpaceMaster my way around this, by trying to design my "own" missiles with similar specs (as far as I can see the specs from alien missiles).
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: October 01, 2024, 02:05:23 AM »

Quote from: Zap0 on September 30, 2024, 06:33:16 PM
You may still run into unconverted components sometimes when you advance in tech between getting them and eventually using them, but that's an edge case.

An important one though. Maybe the original idea of converting them manually is best. I could add a 'Modify for Use' button to the Stockpile window (alongside scrap and disassemble) and highlight the eligible ones in a different colour (like green for those will generate research points). Plus another button and colour for those that could be researched.
Posted by: Elouda
« on: September 30, 2024, 08:34:45 PM »

Quote from: nuclearslurpee on September 30, 2024, 07:03:10 PM
Quote from: serger on September 30, 2024, 01:32:37 PM
The mechanics of Aurora suggests standard Alien components and installations anyway. The options are to ignore them or to except and explain in a game/campaign lore.

As much as I would like to be opposed on the grounds that alien tech doesn't interface with your tech just because it has similar specs (i.e., you can't hack the alien mothership with a Macbook...), serger is correct here, this is already how it works for standardized components, so the suggested change would keep it consistent. I might suggest that this could be an optional rule in the game settings rather than the only mechanic.

That being said, if we're going to make this change we should also make alien ordnance usable when captured, IMO.

This. If included please make it an option in the game settings.
Posted by: nuclearslurpee
« on: September 30, 2024, 07:03:10 PM »

Quote from: serger on September 30, 2024, 01:32:37 PM
The mechanics of Aurora suggests standard Alien components and installations anyway. The options are to ignore them or to except and explain in a game/campaign lore.

As much as I would like to be opposed on the grounds that alien tech doesn't interface with your tech just because it has similar specs (i.e., you can't hack the alien mothership with a Macbook...), serger is correct here, this is already how it works for standardized components, so the suggested change would keep it consistent. I might suggest that this could be an optional rule in the game settings rather than the only mechanic.

That being said, if we're going to make this change we should also make alien ordnance usable when captured, IMO.
Posted by: Zap0
« on: September 30, 2024, 06:33:16 PM »

I'm a little torn on this. Yes it'd be weird to have alien components turn into domestic ones. Of course I also like the idea of simplifying looted component reuse. And the game already has enough buttons.

If the conversion happens during the salvage process (don't forget the components generated in alien ruins!) you may still run into unconverted components sometimes when you advance in tech between getting them and eventually using them, but that's an edge case.

Could a graceful solution just be to have ship construction use identical alien components during construction like they would your own?
Posted by: paolot
« on: September 30, 2024, 06:10:50 PM »

I wouldn't like the ability to use an alien component without an extensive research about it.
I wouldn't use it: I feel it as a complete immersion disruption.
Even in real world, European countries or USA cannot use systems from Russia or China without a lengthy reverse engineering (even if they are built using the same basic components that EU and USA use).
Just imagine to use a true ALIEN product! It comes from a totally different culture and way of thinking. IMO, it is much more likely you would end up killing yourself using it, than exploit it!
Posted by: Garfunkel
« on: September 30, 2024, 05:24:18 PM »

I like the change, though admittedly this has never been an issue for me.
Posted by: Ghostly
« on: September 30, 2024, 03:20:31 PM »

I admit this wouldn't be the most widely used functionality, you'd have to be fighting an enemy of an equal tech level and possibly the same preferred weapon type as yourself in order to make full use of it, but when you do happen upon such a foe, it feels weird to be unable to utilize his captured/salvaged equipment, potentially saving 10-20% on ship construction time/resources, except by adding it to a brand new class which would cause a ton of headache during firing assignments, and especially when the time for ship upgrades and refits comes, not to mention problems with shipyard commonality. A minor conversion tax to account for superficial differences between equally capable components designed by different races, such as weapon mounts or controls, makes more sense to me, but ignoring such minor aspects and accounting for them with an appropriate conversion message upon salvaging the component would work fine as well, as long as the same message is sent upon scrapping a captured alien ship in a shipyard (which is how I actually acquired most of such components in my playthrough).

Being able to research alien components could be useful in general, but it does not fully solve this problem. If you already had a ship with an equivalent component in service, you'll still end up with two different but functionally identical classes of ships, one with a native component and one with an adopted alien one.
Posted by: serger
« on: September 30, 2024, 01:32:37 PM »

The mechanics of Aurora suggests standard Alien components and installations anyway. The options are to ignore them or to except and explain in a game/campaign lore.

My usual lore part for this is that TN parts are very durable, nearly imperishable, yet you need some usual (non-transnewtonian) parts as controls for them, and controls are naturally race- and often culture-specific, so you have to rebuild these anyway, while TN pars are just reverse-engeneered legacy of the Elders race and so are standard for everyone.
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: September 30, 2024, 01:05:04 PM »

Quote from: Zap0 on September 30, 2024, 01:03:41 PM
It would feel weird. What is the main benefit? Reusing these components more easily without needing to fiddle with alien components on designs to save 8 wealth by reusing some thermal sensors?

Yes, the idea is to reuse alien components that match your own components without having to create an entirely new design. The example given in the suggestion was 25cm railguns and missile launchers.
Posted by: Zap0
« on: September 30, 2024, 01:03:41 PM »

It would feel weird. What is the main benefit? Reusing these components more easily without needing to fiddle with alien components on designs to save 8 wealth by reusing some thermal sensors?
Posted by: Alsadius
« on: September 30, 2024, 12:28:35 PM »

I like it. If you have an identical component, it'll auto-convert - simple and reasonable. There'd be a few weird corner cases, like when you're currently researching an identical component, or have it as a prototype, but those can probably be ignored if they're too much work.

And yes, I'd like to get the option to research a salvaged component, assuming you have the necessary techs and just don't have that specific combination researched. Maybe a -50% or -75% cost modifier for having a working model in hand?