Posted by: The Shadow
« on: April 09, 2010, 04:36:37 PM »Staff? Seriously? Computers, even futuristic ones, can't do this stuff?
Posted by: sloanjh
« on: April 09, 2010, 10:39:13 AM »Quote from: "UnLimiTeD"
Probably tonnage.
And targetting information.
*sighs* .... ah, the pendulum of life
One thing to remember in Aurora is not to get too bound up in the details of the rules, but instead to role-play over the problems with the rules. Prior to 5.0 (or maybe 4.9), passive sensors erred on the side of not giving enough information - whenever you had an alien on passives only, you had no clue what ship it was, even if you'd already identified it through other means or if it had a very particular combination of signatures. With 5.0, Steve has changed things to assume that passives give you enough "signature fingerprint" information to be able to identify empire and class for every contact. This means that the only new information you get from actives is the size of the target and firing information (which allows fire control to lock the target up). This might make you say, "hey, why should I put actives on at all?". This is where role playing comes in. In reality, and active sensor gives you rapid, precise range information; for passives you (your staff, actually) need to do Target Motion Analysis (TMA). So if it seems like a ship would need this capability, then you should put actives on it. For example, a tramp freighter is unlikely to have a staff that will do the TMA, and so it's more likely to want to have a small, active "navigational radar" to keep from running into other freighters.
Hmmmm - that's an idea. Maybe the only sensors allowed on commercial designs should be size-1 actives, since commercial ships won't be trained to do TMA.... This would also mean that the "implied" passive sensors should be removed from all ships - if you want a sensor, you need to build it in.
John
Posted by: UnLimiTeD
« on: April 09, 2010, 05:08:13 AM »Probably tonnage.
Posted by: AndonSage
« on: April 09, 2010, 12:36:51 AM »Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
What information are you going to get with active sensors that passive sensors won't give you?Quote from: "AndonSage"Active vs. Passive: I'm wondering why, in the Tutorial Part 4: Basic Class Design, Steve has the user place an Active Sensor on the Gravitational and Geological Survey ships:It's just a personal preference. While I wouldn't normally operate the ship with active sensors on, they are useful to gain more information if you do run into alien ships.
Steve
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: April 08, 2010, 08:43:33 AM »Quote from: "AndonSage"
Active vs. Passive: I'm wondering why, in the Tutorial Part 4: Basic Class Design, Steve has the user place an Active Sensor on the Gravitational and Geological Survey ships:It's just a personal preference. While I wouldn't normally operate the ship with active sensors on, they are useful to gain more information if you do run into alien ships.
Steve
Posted by: Father Tim
« on: April 07, 2010, 07:02:46 AM »Quote from: "sloanjh"
Quote from: "The Shadow"I thought one still needed active sensors to make contact with an alien race to do diplomacy with them. When did this change?
5.0 IIRC.
John
One needs to identify the alien race to commence diplomacy. If all you see is 'a ship' and you are unable to determine whose ship it is, you won't be able to talk to them. Since passive sensors now have the ability to ID races, it is possible to make contact without actives - but it's not easy. As mentioned upthread, passives take a lot more time & effort to ID the race (whereas any contact on an active sensor gives you race ID info).
Posted by: AndonSage
« on: April 06, 2010, 09:38:47 AM »Quote from: "ZimRathbone"
Its another one of these "historical" things - at the time of the original tutorial, you needed Active sensors to be able to identify Alien races, and hence start contact procedures, and also Active sensors could provide other tech intelligence on detected ships - neither of these are in place now (you can ID races using passives, although you might have to be VERY close if you only have the inherent strength 1 sensors in all ships)Thanks for the info
I figured there was a reason.Posted by: sloanjh
« on: April 06, 2010, 09:31:38 AM »Quote from: "The Shadow"
I thought one still needed active sensors to make contact with an alien race to do diplomacy with them. When did this change?
5.0 IIRC.
John
Posted by: Beersatron
« on: April 06, 2010, 09:19:46 AM »I put a 1HS active sensor on all civilian ships or non-combat military ships (colliers etc). I just call them 'Navigation Sensors' and RP that they are the basic civilian version of the high tech military installations.
Doesn't cost that much and can be useful if your jump gate construction ship detects something on passives, ping the active sensors to see whats there - then try to run away like a cowardly civilian
Doesn't cost that much and can be useful if your jump gate construction ship detects something on passives, ping the active sensors to see whats there - then try to run away like a cowardly civilian
Posted by: The Shadow
« on: April 06, 2010, 09:11:10 AM »I thought one still needed active sensors to make contact with an alien race to do diplomacy with them. When did this change?
Posted by: ZimRathbone
« on: April 06, 2010, 08:41:24 AM »Quote from: "StratPlayer"
Quote from: "AndonSage"So assuming you aren't leaving the sensor on, because you don't want to be detected by an enemy (because your survey ship has no offensive or defensive capabilities), wouldn't it be better to use an EM and/or Thermal Sensor instead of an Active Sensor? And if I only picked one, I'd probably go with Thermal as the EM would only pick up NPR ships if they had shields or were using Active Sensors.
I realize there are probably multiple reasons for using any particular item, and I'm just trying to understand the "why" of this sensor usage. Perhaps it's due to range? Of course, sensing a planet would be much easier than sensing a ship, and wouldn't require an active ping.
You know, that's a great question -- what is the point of active sensors on an unarmed survey ship? To be able to detect threats at a farther distance to give more time to bravely run away? "Run away! Run away!"
Its another one of these "historical" things - at the time of the original tutorial, you needed Active sensors to be able to identify Alien races, and hence start contact procedures, and also Active sensors could provide other tech intelligence on detected ships - neither of these are in place now (you can ID races using passives, although you might have to be VERY close if you only have the inherent strength 1 sensors in all ships)
Posted by: StratPlayer
« on: April 06, 2010, 07:57:52 AM »Quote from: "AndonSage"
So assuming you aren't leaving the sensor on, because you don't want to be detected by an enemy (because your survey ship has no offensive or defensive capabilities), wouldn't it be better to use an EM and/or Thermal Sensor instead of an Active Sensor? And if I only picked one, I'd probably go with Thermal as the EM would only pick up NPR ships if they had shields or were using Active Sensors.
I realize there are probably multiple reasons for using any particular item, and I'm just trying to understand the "why" of this sensor usage. Perhaps it's due to range? Of course, sensing a planet would be much easier than sensing a ship, and wouldn't require an active ping.
You know, that's a great question -- what is the point of active sensors on an unarmed survey ship? To be able to detect threats at a farther distance to give more time to bravely run away? "Run away! Run away!"
Posted by: AndonSage
« on: April 06, 2010, 07:48:30 AM »Quote from: "Hyfrydle"
Thanks for the link to the missile design spreadsheet it made missile design much clearer. The only problem I have now is once a missile is designed and constructed what tech is required to design a launcher and how on earth do fire controls work.I'd like to keep this thread about the sensors, so I'm going to answer you in your thread.
Posted by: Hyfrydle
« on: April 06, 2010, 07:15:06 AM »Hi AndonSage
Thanks for the link to the missile design spreadsheet it made missile design much clearer. The only problem I have now is once a missile is designed and constructed what tech is required to design a launcher and how on earth do fire controls work.
I really think this academy thread needs some organisation maybe a thread for each area of the game where questions and answers can be posted. Then overtime each thread can be condensed into a tutorial or maybe even an ongoing manual.
Not sure how to implement this but what do you think of this kind of idea. It will help newbies and cut down on the same questions in multiple threads.
Thanks for the link to the missile design spreadsheet it made missile design much clearer. The only problem I have now is once a missile is designed and constructed what tech is required to design a launcher and how on earth do fire controls work.
I really think this academy thread needs some organisation maybe a thread for each area of the game where questions and answers can be posted. Then overtime each thread can be condensed into a tutorial or maybe even an ongoing manual.
Not sure how to implement this but what do you think of this kind of idea. It will help newbies and cut down on the same questions in multiple threads.
Posted by: AndonSage
« on: April 06, 2010, 06:42:18 AM »I'm trying to get a handle on sensors... what kind to use, and in what situation. I'm only in my first game (version 5.02), an extension of the Tutorial using Steve's Tutorials. I'm using this game to learn the game mechanics.
A quick summary of Sensors:
For roleplaying purposes, assume "we don't know if another race of beings is out there, but if there isn't, it's an awfully big waste of space." And based on most first contact situations on Earth, and how those turned out, assume NPRs aren't friendly.
Active vs. Passive: I'm wondering why, in the Tutorial Part 4: Basic Class Design, Steve has the user place an Active Sensor on the Gravitational and Geological Survey ships:
I realize there are probably multiple reasons for using any particular item, and I'm just trying to understand the "why" of this sensor usage. Perhaps it's due to range? Of course, sensing a planet would be much easier than sensing a ship, and wouldn't require an active ping.
A quick summary of Sensors:
- EM Sensors: Detect shields, planets, and active sensors from other ships.
- Components: EM Sensor Sensitivity, Total Sensor Size, Hardening
- Sensor Range = (GPS value or EM Signature of target) x EM Sensor Sensitivity x Sensor Size x 1000km
- Thermal Sensors: Detect Thermal signatures from planets and ships.
- Components: Thermal Sensor Sensitivity, Total Sensor Size, Hardening
- Sensor Range = Thermal signature of target x Thermal Sensor Sensitivity x Sensor Size x 1000km
- Active Sensors: Detect targets and provide guidance for missiles.
- Components: Active Sensor Strength, EM Sensor Sensitivity, Antenna Size, Minimum Resolution, Hardening
- Sensor Range = Active Sensor Strength x Sensor Size x Sensor Resolution x (EM Sensitivity/10) x 10,000km
For roleplaying purposes, assume "we don't know if another race of beings is out there, but if there isn't, it's an awfully big waste of space." And based on most first contact situations on Earth, and how those turned out, assume NPRs aren't friendly.
Active vs. Passive: I'm wondering why, in the Tutorial Part 4: Basic Class Design, Steve has the user place an Active Sensor on the Gravitational and Geological Survey ships:
Quote
In this case, we want a general search sensor so lets stick with resolution 100. If we encounter an enemy that likes to design ships of 4000 tons or 6000 tons we can modify future sensor designs to take the best advantage of an appropriate resolution (80 or 120).I haven't read anything that says a Geological or Gravitational Sensor requires an Active Sensor to work, and the statement above seems to imply the sensor is for detecting other ships, so let's assume that's what the sensor is for. However, other articles/threads indicate it's not a good idea to leave active sensors on, because you can be detected by opposing EM Sensors. So assuming you aren't leaving the sensor on, because you don't want to be detected by an enemy (because your survey ship has no offensive or defensive capabilities), wouldn't it be better to use an EM and/or Thermal Sensor instead of an Active Sensor? And if I only picked one, I'd probably go with Thermal as the EM would only pick up NPR ships if they had shields or were using Active Sensors.
I realize there are probably multiple reasons for using any particular item, and I'm just trying to understand the "why" of this sensor usage. Perhaps it's due to range? Of course, sensing a planet would be much easier than sensing a ship, and wouldn't require an active ping.
