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Posted by: Brian Neumann
« on: June 27, 2010, 06:10:43 AM »

ECM and ECCM only work for the ship that it is mounted on.

ECCM counters an equal level of ECM.  Any extra ECM is then applied against the fire control targeting the ship with the ECM.

Against beams the way ecm works is to be a flat modifier on the to hit channce.  Take the base to hit from the range and subtract the ecm modifier. (Base to hit-(ecmx10)).  At close range this is not to bad if the ecm is not to high.  At longer ranges though this can be significant.  ie at 3/4 of max fire control range you would normally have a 25% chance to hit.  With one level of ecm not countered by your eccm this would go down to 15% to hit.

Against missiles it works to reduce the fire control range that can get a missile lockon.  A level 1 ecm would reduce the targeting fire control range by 10% while a level 3 ecm would reduce the range by 30%.  It will have no effect on the missiles actual chance to hit the target, just on the range it can be fired at.

Brian
Posted by: Aldaris
« on: June 27, 2010, 04:21:25 AM »

My power and propulsion scientists are very good, and my other good scientists are all logistics or construction, so my tech focus changed accordingly, I'll set to work on some new designs.
As for the AMMs, they've got a large manouverability bonus, something I didn't bother with on my ASMs.

Also, how exactly does ECM work? Does it only affect the ship it's mounted on or the whole fleet?
Posted by: Hawkeye
« on: June 26, 2010, 11:14:45 PM »

The turrets and FC on the escort still only track at 10,000 km/s and will have a very _very_ hard time shooting down a missile moving at 40 to 50k (to-hit chance reduces by 75 to 80% on top of all other modifiers).
Generally, i use one firecon per turret, so I am able to defend against many small salvos, but one FC per two twin-turrets might be ok too.
Posted by: mavikfelna
« on: June 26, 2010, 07:45:27 PM »

Overall, I agree with Unlimited but I'll add this;

If you can squeeze another firecontrol on each of the ships I think you'll find it a benefit. On the main missile combatants, if you can go to resolution 16 on the actives and firecon you'll be able to deal with gunboats much better, and it's also a good reason to have 2 firecon on those ships.

--Mav
Posted by: UnLimiTeD
« on: June 26, 2010, 04:10:28 PM »

Quote from: "Aldaris"
Code: [Select]
Cobra class Battlecruiser    10000 tons     1033 Crew     2531.2 BP      TCS 200  TH 500  EM 0
5000 km/s     Armour 7-41     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 10     PPV 45
Annual Failure Rate: 80%    IFR: 1.1%    Maint Capacity 1582 MSP    Max Repair 630 MSP    Est Time: 2.05 Years
Magazine 645    

Magnetic Confinement Fusion Drive E4 (8)    Power 125    Fuel Use 40%    Signature 62.5    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 160,000 Litres    Range 72.0 billion km   (166 days at full power)

Size 3 Missile Launcher (15)    Missile Size 3    Rate of Fire 30
Missile Fire Control FC60-R30 (70%) (1)     Range 60.5m km    Resolution 30
ASM-3-Javelin II (213)  Speed: 50,000 km/s   End: 16m    Range: 48m km   WH: 5    Size: 3    TH: 200 / 120 / 60

Active Search Sensor MR67-R20 (50%) (1)     GPS 8400     Range 67.2m km    Resolution 20

ECCM-2 (1)         ECM 20

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
Well rounded. I take those are reduced size launchers? The fire rate could probably use a boost.
However, if done correctly, I don't think you need expensive electronic hardening on a ship fighting at range, that should normally be supported by a fleet scout.

Quote
Laser PD ship
Code: [Select]
Attorney class Escort    10000 tons     1203 Crew     3391 BP      TCS 200  TH 500  EM 0
5000 km/s     Armour 6-41     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 7     PPV 90
Annual Failure Rate: 114%    IFR: 1.6%    Maint Capacity 1484 MSP    Max Repair 180 MSP    Est Time: 3.3 Years

Magnetic Confinement Fusion Drive E4 (8)    Power 125    Fuel Use 40%    Signature 62.5    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 160,000 Litres    Range 72.0 billion km   (166 days at full power)

Twin 15cm C6 Far Ultraviolet Laser Turret (9x2)    Range 240,000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 12-12     RM 5    ROF 5        6 6 6 6 6 5 4 3 3 3
Laser Fire Control S06 120-10000 (2)    Max Range: 240,000 km   TS: 10000 km/s     96 92 88 83 79 75 71 67 62 58
Magnetic Confinement Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1 AR-0 (4)     Total Power Output 20    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Magnetic Confinement Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1 AR-0 (10)     Total Power Output 100    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor (Point Defense) MR0-R1 (50%) (1)     GPS 21     Range 231k km    Resolution 1

ECM 20

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
In this specific case, I would really take another firecontrol on board, maybe at the cost of a turret.
If you use AMMs as your primary defense, the Lasers will mainly be used to fight off stragglers, which is more likely to be small salvo sizes, letting all that firepower go to waste.
Quote

AMM Area Defense Cruiser
Code: [Select]
Embasy class Area Defence Cruiser    10000 tons     825 Crew     2444.1 BP      TCS 200  TH 500  EM 0
5000 km/s     Armour 6-41     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 7     PPV 23
Annual Failure Rate: 114%    IFR: 1.6%    Maint Capacity 1069 MSP    Max Repair 273 MSP    Est Time: 2.14 Years
Magazine 1073    

Magnetic Confinement Fusion Drive E4 (8)    Power 125    Fuel Use 40%    Signature 62.5    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 120,000 Litres    Range 54.0 billion km   (125 days at full power)

Size 1 AMM Launcher (23)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Missile Fire Control FC3-R1 (70%) (3)     Range 3.0m km    Resolution 1
AMM-1-Shield III (1073)  Speed: 40,000 km/s   End: 1.5m    Range: 3.6m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 466 / 280 / 140

Active Search Sensor MR3-R1 (1)     GPS 273     Range 3.0m km    Resolution 1

ECM 20

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
I think it's written Embassy.

Did you notice your AMMs are slower than your ASMs?
You couldn't even fight off your own missiles if they don't come directly ahead at you.
Quote

Heavily armoured jump ship
Code: [Select]
Mentor class Jump Ship    10000 tons     778 Crew     2648 BP      TCS 200  TH 812.5  EM 0
8125 km/s    JR 4-500     Armour 10-41     Shields 0-0     Sensors 40/40/0/0     Damage Control Rating 8     PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 100%    IFR: 1.4%    Maint Capacity 2324 MSP    Max Repair 650 MSP    Est Time: 2.19 Years

J10000(4-500) Assault Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 10000 tons    Distance 500k km     Squadron Size 4
Magnetic Confinement Fusion Drive E4 (13)    Power 125    Fuel Use 40%    Signature 62.5    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 200,000 Litres    Range 90.0 billion km   (128 days at full power)

CIWS-200 (1x6)    Range 1000 km     TS: 20000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Thermal Sensor TH5-40 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 40     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  40m km
EM Detection Sensor EM5-40 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 40     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  40m km

ECM 20

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes

Looks pretty good. Finally some passives.
I notice you have high fuel efficiency compared you other tech, like missile reload.
Do you intend to reuse your old command ships.
Posted by: Aldaris
« on: June 26, 2010, 03:36:30 PM »

Okay, here's my 10000 ton designs which haven't been locked yet. I've tried taking into account the advice and holepoking provided so far.

Missile battelcruiser
Code: [Select]
Cobra class Battlecruiser    10000 tons     1033 Crew     2531.2 BP      TCS 200  TH 500  EM 0
5000 km/s     Armour 7-41     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 10     PPV 45
Annual Failure Rate: 80%    IFR: 1.1%    Maint Capacity 1582 MSP    Max Repair 630 MSP    Est Time: 2.05 Years
Magazine 645    

Magnetic Confinement Fusion Drive E4 (8)    Power 125    Fuel Use 40%    Signature 62.5    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 160,000 Litres    Range 72.0 billion km   (166 days at full power)

Size 3 Missile Launcher (15)    Missile Size 3    Rate of Fire 30
Missile Fire Control FC60-R30 (70%) (1)     Range 60.5m km    Resolution 30
ASM-3-Javelin II (213)  Speed: 50,000 km/s   End: 16m    Range: 48m km   WH: 5    Size: 3    TH: 200 / 120 / 60

Active Search Sensor MR67-R20 (50%) (1)     GPS 8400     Range 67.2m km    Resolution 20

ECCM-2 (1)         ECM 20

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
Laser PD ship
Code: [Select]
Attorney class Escort    10000 tons     1203 Crew     3391 BP      TCS 200  TH 500  EM 0
5000 km/s     Armour 6-41     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 7     PPV 90
Annual Failure Rate: 114%    IFR: 1.6%    Maint Capacity 1484 MSP    Max Repair 180 MSP    Est Time: 3.3 Years

Magnetic Confinement Fusion Drive E4 (8)    Power 125    Fuel Use 40%    Signature 62.5    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 160,000 Litres    Range 72.0 billion km   (166 days at full power)

Twin 15cm C6 Far Ultraviolet Laser Turret (9x2)    Range 240,000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 12-12     RM 5    ROF 5        6 6 6 6 6 5 4 3 3 3
Laser Fire Control S06 120-10000 (2)    Max Range: 240,000 km   TS: 10000 km/s     96 92 88 83 79 75 71 67 62 58
Magnetic Confinement Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1 AR-0 (4)     Total Power Output 20    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Magnetic Confinement Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1 AR-0 (10)     Total Power Output 100    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor (Point Defense) MR0-R1 (50%) (1)     GPS 21     Range 231k km    Resolution 1

ECM 20

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
AMM Area Defense Cruiser
Code: [Select]
Embasy class Area Defence Cruiser    10000 tons     825 Crew     2444.1 BP      TCS 200  TH 500  EM 0
5000 km/s     Armour 6-41     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 7     PPV 23
Annual Failure Rate: 114%    IFR: 1.6%    Maint Capacity 1069 MSP    Max Repair 273 MSP    Est Time: 2.14 Years
Magazine 1073    

Magnetic Confinement Fusion Drive E4 (8)    Power 125    Fuel Use 40%    Signature 62.5    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 120,000 Litres    Range 54.0 billion km   (125 days at full power)

Size 1 AMM Launcher (23)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Missile Fire Control FC3-R1 (70%) (3)     Range 3.0m km    Resolution 1
AMM-1-Shield III (1073)  Speed: 40,000 km/s   End: 1.5m    Range: 3.6m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 466 / 280 / 140

Active Search Sensor MR3-R1 (1)     GPS 273     Range 3.0m km    Resolution 1

ECM 20

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes

Heavily armoured jump ship
Code: [Select]
Mentor class Jump Ship    10000 tons     778 Crew     2648 BP      TCS 200  TH 812.5  EM 0
8125 km/s    JR 4-500     Armour 10-41     Shields 0-0     Sensors 40/40/0/0     Damage Control Rating 8     PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 100%    IFR: 1.4%    Maint Capacity 2324 MSP    Max Repair 650 MSP    Est Time: 2.19 Years

J10000(4-500) Assault Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 10000 tons    Distance 500k km     Squadron Size 4
Magnetic Confinement Fusion Drive E4 (13)    Power 125    Fuel Use 40%    Signature 62.5    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 200,000 Litres    Range 90.0 billion km   (128 days at full power)

CIWS-200 (1x6)    Range 1000 km     TS: 20000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Thermal Sensor TH5-40 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 40     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  40m km
EM Detection Sensor EM5-40 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 40     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  40m km

ECM 20

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
Posted by: UnLimiTeD
« on: June 26, 2010, 03:20:01 PM »

Well, you need one to jump with military ships (unless theres a JG).
Given that if need be, the Jump Ship doesn't need to do much else but let the fleet jump, and the max ship size it can help jump is it's own (if smaller than the max of the jump engine), make it big, and give it armor. It can also double as a Tanker if you want to burn space.
For maintenance, I'd recommend a dedicated supply ship, probably commercial.
Posted by: Aldaris
« on: June 26, 2010, 03:10:03 PM »

Thank you, this will save an enormous amount of mass in future designs.And I do have a jumpship, although as of yet I haven't produced a dedicated military one.
Posted by: UnLimiTeD
« on: June 26, 2010, 12:49:59 PM »

Well, make a dedicated Jump ship for that.
Also, having more engineering spaces on a ship will reduce the amount of spares it needs, probably freeing space on those other ships.
Thats where you could invest the savings from using a little smaller weapons ;)

Missile Firecontrols Can target one enemy salvo at a time.
So a huge salvo of 20 missiles can be engaged by a single AM MFC.
5 salvos of 4 need 5 firecontrols.
Posted by: Aldaris
« on: June 26, 2010, 12:22:53 PM »

Yes, the Watson is a fleet support vessel with a flag bridge, it's got very thick armour so that the command crew doesn't get killed in a magazine explosion.
The Lookout is meant to provide sensor coverage for the Rommels, good catch on the lack of engineering.
The Cerebus is meant to accompany Guderians and Queenslands, and use their fuel and maintenance stocks, as well as their active sensor coverage.
As for the fire control issue, how many seperate missiles can a single PD FC target? I thought I need a seperate FC for each target.

My main problem with these designs was a constant shortage of space because my jump engine tech sucks, I'm currently finalising the designs for a 10000 ton fleet. The lack of passives and the need to update the missile stocks was also a good one.
Posted by: Brian Neumann
« on: June 26, 2010, 08:27:22 AM »

Quote from: "UnLimiTeD"
Yep, Mesons are pretty awesome against NPRs.
In an RP game, be advised, though, that enemy missile ships can be a hassle.
A Ship with a big enough load can have you shoot empty magazines for minutes.

For Point defense, smaller weapons are generally smaller, who would have guessed, so you can mount more of them.

And that is the main reason that 15cm is about the biggest weapon that I use for point defense.  Anything larger starts getting significantly larger in hull size and requires a lot more power as well.

As for ships with empty magazines, I try not to shoot them untill the main beam armed ships are out of action.  If it takes a little more time to take them out then that is fine with me.  They probably do not have a heavy beam weapon suite if they are primarily missile armed ships anyway.

Brian

P.S.  If the magazine isn't empty then that is just fine as I may get it to explode and do lots of damage to the ship.
Posted by: UnLimiTeD
« on: June 26, 2010, 08:17:44 AM »

Yep, Mesons are pretty awesome against NPRs.
In an RP game, be advised, though, that enemy missile ships can be a hassle.
A Ship with a big enough load can have you shoot empty magazines for minutes.

For Point defense, smaller weapons are generally smaller, who would have guessed, so you can mount more of them.
Posted by: Brian Neumann
« on: June 26, 2010, 07:43:04 AM »

Personnal preference for me is either 10, 12, or 15 cm mesons.  I usually use the 10cm as they are very effective against incomming missiles and don't care if the missile is armoured.  Once I can get the 15cm up to a 5 second cycle time then I switch to them.  I only use the 12cm ones when I can't get the 15cm mesons to fire every 5 seconds.  There is a big gap in the amount of reasearch to be done for capaciter 4 and capaciter 6.  (7000rp vs 30000rp)  What symon said about them cutting an enemy up goes double for the mesons as you are ignoring their passive defenses.  The drawback of course is that they are shorter ranged (1/2) than the lasers.  If a laser armed guy gets close enough for effective use of the lasers then they are probably close enough for the small mesons to dice them up.

Mesons are also a good secondary weapon for another long ranged beam weapon like the particle beams (old style torpedo).  At the point that lasers and railguns are starting to do more damage than the particle beam does the mesons also start getting in on the action.  It has worked pretty well for me in several games.

And of course the third reason I like mesons is they are also the only point defense for a lot of planets.

Brian
Posted by: Erik L
« on: June 26, 2010, 02:01:49 AM »

The turret RoF is 5sec, so I can't see that it matters all that much 10cm vs. 15cm. I usually go with the biggest I can with a 5s RoF.

I'd also standardize your missiles across the fleet. You seem to have 2 or 3 different generations of missiles on different ships.
Posted by: symon
« on: June 25, 2010, 09:30:18 PM »

Quote from: "Hawkeye"
Also, for anti-missile work, I´d go with 10cm lasers, but that is a personal preference, so you might want a different approach, like using the turrets for anti-ship work too.
Got to endorse quad 10cm lasers for point defence. If you can get in close, you can then switch them to offence and gut your opponent before his missiles fire again. The damage may be low, but the volume of fire coupled with the 5s recharge time is quite punishing.