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Posted by: xeryon
« on: April 25, 2012, 01:50:33 PM »

Be careful what commercial builds you leave half finished.  They will build something without cargo handling systems and with one engine and 32 cargo holds.  It will travel at 42km/s and move half a colony but take 60 months to load/unload
Posted by: TheDeadlyShoe
« on: April 25, 2012, 09:50:06 AM »

They'll build unlocked. 
Posted by: Bgreman
« on: April 25, 2012, 09:08:43 AM »

Will a civilian line only choose to build a design if it has been locked, or will they build unlocked designs as well?
Posted by: Thiosk
« on: April 19, 2012, 03:41:24 PM »

I had a brilliant plan to put a cargo hold on a tanker.  That way, i could divert pittances of minerals to maintenance worlds.

The AI built dozens of them before I realized what was going on.  Argh.
Posted by: Bgreman
« on: April 17, 2012, 04:52:36 PM »

Quote from: Steve Walmsley on April 17, 2012, 04:27:19 PM
An in-depth explanation

Thanks, Steve, this is exactly what I was looking for!
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: April 17, 2012, 04:44:46 PM »

Quote from: Erik Luken on April 17, 2012, 04:36:44 PM
Would it be possible to expand the definition of "civilian ships"?

I can see civilian fuel tankers as a possibility. I'm sure there are also others.

Yes, I am going to have a look at civilian fuel harvesters so I guess civilian tankers would make sense too.

Steve
Posted by: Erik L
« on: April 17, 2012, 04:36:44 PM »

Quote from: Steve Walmsley on April 17, 2012, 04:27:19 PM
The civs will select ships flagged as colony ships and freighters during ship design. Ship designs always get flagged as something, even though that is currently hidden from the players. I guess it wouldn't do any harm to display that value somewhere.

A freighter (for example) is a design that does have cargo holds but doesn't have a GB engine, doesn't have a hangar, doesn't have a PPV above 0, doesn't have geo or grav sensors, doesn't have troop capacity, can't build jump gates, can't harvest or terraform, can't mine asteroids, can't carry passengers or colonists, can't salvage anything, can't maintain anything and doesn't have an orbital habitat.

Civs will pick non-obsolete, non-jump capable freighters with commercial engines that are within their budget and are more likely to pick popular types currently in service, weighted by percentage in service. If there aren't any service at the moment, they will choose the most expensive design they can afford with the same criteria.

Steve

Would it be possible to expand the definition of "civilian ships"?

I can see civilian fuel tankers as a possibility. I'm sure there are also others.
Posted by: schroeam
« on: April 17, 2012, 04:32:42 PM »

Quote from: Steve Walmsley on April 17, 2012, 04:27:19 PM
A freighter (for example) is a design that does have cargo holds but doesn't have a GB engine, doesn't have a hangar, doesn't have a PPV above 0, doesn't have geo or grav sensors, doesn't have troop capacity, can't build jump gates, can't harvest or terraform, can't mine asteroids, can't carry passengers or colonists, can't salvage anything, can't maintain anything and doesn't have an orbital habitat.

Gosh, gve a ship a break... Make her sound like she's not good for anything...
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: April 17, 2012, 04:27:19 PM »

The civs will select ships flagged as colony ships and freighters during ship design. Ship designs always get flagged as something, even though that is currently hidden from the players. I guess it wouldn't do any harm to display that value somewhere.

A freighter (for example) is a design that does have cargo holds but doesn't have a GB engine, doesn't have a hangar, doesn't have a PPV above 0, doesn't have geo or grav sensors, doesn't have troop capacity, can't build jump gates, can't harvest or terraform, can't mine asteroids, can't carry passengers or colonists, can't salvage anything, can't maintain anything and doesn't have an orbital habitat.

Civs will pick non-obsolete, non-jump capable freighters with commercial engines that are within their budget and are more likely to pick popular types currently in service, weighted by percentage in service. If there aren't any service at the moment, they will choose the most expensive design they can afford with the same criteria.

When a shipping line is selected to build a ship it will choose freighters 50% of the time, colony ships 40% of the time and liners 10% of the time. If a suitable design isn't available, or too expensive, they pass on building anything.

Steve
Posted by: xeryon
« on: April 17, 2012, 03:58:18 PM »

Price, it would appear, is the primary motivating factor.  I have had starts where I would design a colony ship compatible with a cargo ship and then the civilian lines would never build them.  Early game a 100,000 colonist ship is pretty expensive and the civilians elected to build 50 some odd cargo ships.  the cargo ships spent all their time in orbit since my colonies had few residents and needed no infrastructure and produced no goods to trade.  I had to go back and design a cheaper colony ship for them to build.
Posted by: Erik L
« on: April 17, 2012, 03:14:59 PM »

Quote from: Bgreman on April 17, 2012, 03:09:59 PM
I was more asking about how they pick from the eligible designs.  That post would indicate that the chance for a ship to be built is proportional to the number of those ships in service vs the total number of ships from all eligible designs.  All the discussion in this thread so far would seem to indicate it is more based on price.

I'd also like some harder numbers if I could get them.

The only one who can supply hard numbers would be Steve :)

To my knowledge, the only criteria are civilian and under their current funds. If more than 2 ship designs meet those criteria, they pick the cheaper of the two.
Posted by: Bgreman
« on: April 17, 2012, 03:09:59 PM »

Quote from: Erik Luken on April 17, 2012, 01:17:49 PM
To my knowledge, Steve has not changed the requirements for civilian shipping lines. They need a non-obsolete civilian design. They must have enough wealth to purchase said design at a cost of 1 wealth per build point. The only designs they will pick are colony and cargo. Though I do recall seeing some civs run geo survey ships, but that has been quite a while ago and I don't know if Steve changed that or not.

I was more asking about how they pick from the eligible designs.  That post would indicate that the chance for a ship to be built is proportional to the number of those ships in service vs the total number of ships from all eligible designs.  All the discussion in this thread so far would seem to indicate it is more based on price.

I'd also like some harder numbers if I could get them.
Posted by: Thiosk
« on: April 17, 2012, 02:47:11 PM »

If there is another option for a freighter-- say, lower cost in build units-- the civs will build that rather than the salvager. 

I get them to routinely buy 700,000 ton monstrosities by simply obsoleting any other smaller cargo capable ships.
Posted by: Erik L
« on: April 17, 2012, 02:35:04 PM »

To be considered for a civilian line, the ship MUST include the line "This ship is considered civilian for maintenance purposes" at the bottom of the display.
Posted by: wedgebert
« on: April 17, 2012, 02:24:53 PM »

I think there is civilian tech that causes shipping lines to not build ships. All of my salvage ships have cargo holds, but I've never seen one built by a shipping line.