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Posted by: phil
« on: July 30, 2012, 11:47:19 AM »

A last reply.  Fighter with lasers are not very useful when you want attack.  All of them including the tanker were destroy before my missile ship finaly destroy the enemy ships. 

I design a new missile fighter a will mix my fleet with missile fighter, laser fighter (low rof but precise and high damage) and gauss cannon fighter (high rof, unprecise and low damage).
Posted by: phil
« on: July 07, 2012, 02:37:48 PM »

Well.  My fleet has been victorious (only two precursor ships against 19 ship and 30 fighters. . . ) Thanks to all guys who give me very good advice. 

I was lucky, i think the first attacker lost his launcher quickly.  The ennemy salvo drops from 18 to 9 missile only.  Peace of cake for my anti-missile and my beam turret.  only 3 missiles hit my ship during the entire fight
Meanwhile my missile gain a lot of successful hit.  Finaly the precursor ship expand all ammo and begin to fall back.  My missile pursued and ripped them appart. 

The fighters watch all the scene, closing back but can't go in attack position.  I will position them 30 000 000 ahead of my missile ship next time. 

I make a lot of overkill too.  I should think about it.  Perhaps design more guided missile to avoid the lost of all missile when a primary target vanish. 
Posted by: phil
« on: June 29, 2012, 01:03:47 PM »

Yes I know the risk using active sensor. 
 
Ironically, the only ships who escaped the system were the Reco FAC who turn off their sensor.  Meanwhile all other bigger craft were ripped apart. 


I designed some light carrier with 6 * 250 tons ship aboard.  I will load 5 rafales and 1 airbus on each. 
Posted by: Theokrat
« on: June 29, 2012, 03:03:26 AM »

Quote from: phil on June 28, 2012, 02:52:28 PM
That's a very good idea.   I will follow this one.

Here it is.  And now airbus and rafale have the same speed (bonus!)

Airbus A310 MRTT class Fighter Transport    250 tons     5 Crew     54. 7 BP      TCS 5  TH 37. 5  EM 0
10000 km/s     Armour 1-3     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 50%    IFR 0. 7%    1YR 2    5YR 33    Max Repair 11 MSP

FTR Magneto-plasma Drive E880 (1)    Power 50. 4    Fuel Use 8800%    Signature 37. 8    Armour 0    Exp 35%
Fuel Capacity 160,000 Litres    Range 13. 1 billion km   (15 days at full power)

Fighter Search Sensor MR2-R100 (1)     GPS 480     Range 2. 9m km    Resolution 100

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

Very Nice indeed. If you mix in 1 Airbus for every 10 Rafeles, you have quadrupled the return-range to 800m km. Moreover if the Airbus separates from the combat group 200m km before target to turn around and fetch another load of fuel you would have a return-range of 1,400m km (although this would involve having the fighters wait at the rendezvous-point on the return journey, unless you use multiple airbuses. It also negates the active sensor at the target site.)

However you should be aware that the airbus will become the primary target of the hostiles, once it turns on the active sensor. Mounting close-ranged sensors on fighters is risky, as this could put them into the enemies effective range, where they are quite vulnerable.
Posted by: Erik L
« on: June 29, 2012, 12:15:43 AM »

Quote from: phil on June 28, 2012, 11:56:41 PM
it's transporting fuel (i don't see a class oiler so i choose transporter). 

You can always create your own hull designations. Click the "New Hull" button on the ship creation screen.
Posted by: phil
« on: June 28, 2012, 11:56:41 PM »

it's transporting fuel (i don't see a class oiler so i choose transporter).  i don't want use fac tender cause he will be surely detected and destroyed long time before my smaller laser fighter.

i'm refitting my fleet before putting it in action.  i will give you a AAR about the fighter and their airbus support
Posted by: Redshirt
« on: June 28, 2012, 07:36:45 PM »

The fighter transporter looks to be a flying fuel tank to extend the range of the fighter wing- add the sensor and it's intel support, too.

I'm curious how they'll do in combat. I do a tender for several smaller attack ships, but it's on the destroyer level. The AI often targets the larger ship (and wouldn't you, too?) so that leaves the attack ships without support. By making the support ship the same size as the attack craft, you might avoid that problem. Like I said, it'll be interesting to see what happens.
Posted by: Maltay
« on: June 28, 2012, 07:33:27 PM »

Quote from: Erik Luken on June 28, 2012, 06:50:37 PM
Question. What is it transporting?

I believe it is transporting fuel for the other fighters.  Perhaps Fighter Oiler would be a better class designation?
Posted by: Erik L
« on: June 28, 2012, 06:50:37 PM »

Quote from: phil on June 28, 2012, 02:52:28 PM
That's a very good idea.   I will follow this one.

Here it is.  And now airbus and rafale have the same speed (bonus!)

Airbus A310 MRTT class Fighter Transport    250 tons     5 Crew     54. 7 BP      TCS 5  TH 37. 5  EM 0
10000 km/s     Armour 1-3     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 50%    IFR 0. 7%    1YR 2    5YR 33    Max Repair 11 MSP

FTR Magneto-plasma Drive E880 (1)    Power 50. 4    Fuel Use 8800%    Signature 37. 8    Armour 0    Exp 35%
Fuel Capacity 160,000 Litres    Range 13. 1 billion km   (15 days at full power)

Fighter Search Sensor MR2-R100 (1)     GPS 480     Range 2. 9m km    Resolution 100

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

Question. What is it transporting?
Posted by: HaliRyan
« on: June 28, 2012, 06:47:53 PM »

You might consider making the airbus larger and using a FAC engine for it. With the same tech and engine modifications but using a FAC engine it would be the same speed at roughly 800-850 tons. It'd take more space, but carry a lot more fuel.

Whether it's worth it will depend heavily on the number of fighters you launch at once and how many times you need to refuel them, but it's what I wound up doing for a tanker in the last game I used carriers.
Posted by: phil
« on: June 28, 2012, 02:52:28 PM »

That's a very good idea.   I will follow this one.

Here it is.  And now airbus and rafale have the same speed (bonus!)

Airbus A310 MRTT class Fighter Transport    250 tons     5 Crew     54. 7 BP      TCS 5  TH 37. 5  EM 0
10000 km/s     Armour 1-3     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 50%    IFR 0. 7%    1YR 2    5YR 33    Max Repair 11 MSP

FTR Magneto-plasma Drive E880 (1)    Power 50. 4    Fuel Use 8800%    Signature 37. 8    Armour 0    Exp 35%
Fuel Capacity 160,000 Litres    Range 13. 1 billion km   (15 days at full power)

Fighter Search Sensor MR2-R100 (1)     GPS 480     Range 2. 9m km    Resolution 100

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes
Posted by: TheDeadlyShoe
« on: June 28, 2012, 02:31:38 PM »

those looks good. i might suggest putting a small active sensor in the Airbus tanker.  that way the fighters can operate outside the active sensor range of your main fleet. 
Posted by: phil
« on: June 28, 2012, 02:24:18 PM »

Ok this is my almost perfect fleet

Iron Duke MK2 class Missile Destroyer    14,400 tons     1034 Crew     2556. 6 BP      TCS 288  TH 1344  EM 1200
4666 km/s     Armour 8-52     Shields 40-400     Sensors 12/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 8     PPV 16
Maint Life 2. 93 Years     MSP 888    AFR 207%    IFR 2. 9%    1YR 153    5YR 2302    Max Repair 160 MSP
Magazine 772   

Magneto-plasma Drive E8. 8 (16)    Power 84    Fuel Use 88%    Signature 84    Armour 0    Exp 7%
Fuel Capacity 350,000 Litres    Range 49. 7 billion km   (123 days at full power)
Gamma R400/16 Shields (20)   Total Fuel Cost  320 Litres per day

Size 1 Missile Launcher (16)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Anti Missile Fire Control (4)     Range 14. 4m km    Resolution 1
Fast Arrow MK3 (772)  Speed: 32,400 km/s   End: 1. 1m    Range: 2. 2m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 172 / 103 / 51

Military Search Sensor MK2 (1)     GPS 14700     Range 88. 2m km    Resolution 100
Missile Search Sensor MR9-R1 (1)     GPS 160     Range 9. 6m km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH2-12 (1)     Sensitivity 12     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  12m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kirov MK2 class Escort Cruiser    11,700 tons     1053 Crew     1913. 1 BP      TCS 234  TH 1092  EM 1200
4666 km/s     Armour 7-45     Shields 40-400     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 5     PPV 65. 28
Maint Life 2. 4 Years     MSP 511    AFR 219%    IFR 3%    1YR 121    5YR 1821    Max Repair 160 MSP

Magneto-plasma Drive E8. 8 (13)    Power 84    Fuel Use 88%    Signature 84    Armour 0    Exp 7%
Fuel Capacity 150,000 Litres    Range 26. 2 billion km   (65 days at full power)
Gamma R400/16 Shields (20)   Total Fuel Cost  320 Litres per day

Quad 10cm C3 Near Ultraviolet Laser Turret (4x4)    Range 48,000km     TS: 16000 km/s     Power 12-12     RM 3    ROF 5        3 3 3 2 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S06 24-16000 (2)    Max Range: 48,000 km   TS: 16000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0
Stellarator Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1 (8)     Total Power Output 48    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Missile Search Sensor MR9-R1 (1)     GPS 160     Range 9. 6m km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Swiftsure MK2 class Missile Cruiser    12,600 tons     1092 Crew     2222. 85 BP      TCS 252  TH 1176  EM 1200
4666 km/s     Armour 6-48     Shields 40-400     Sensors 1/12/0/0     Damage Control Rating 9     PPV 36
Maint Life 4. 04 Years     MSP 992    AFR 141%    IFR 2%    1YR 97    5YR 1456    Max Repair 168 MSP
Magazine 603   

Magneto-plasma Drive E8. 8 (14)    Power 84    Fuel Use 88%    Signature 84    Armour 0    Exp 7%
Fuel Capacity 350,000 Litres    Range 56. 8 billion km   (140 days at full power)
Gamma R400/16 Shields (20)   Total Fuel Cost  320 Litres per day

Fast Size 6 Missile Launcher (6)    Missile Size 6    Rate of Fire 45
Missile Fire Control FC113-R100 (2)     Range 113. 4m km    Resolution 100
Fast tomahawk MK2 (70)  Speed: 27,000 km/s   End: 41. 7m    Range: 67. 5m km   WH: 4    Size: 6    TH: 117 / 70 / 35
Heavy Tomahawk MK2 (30)  Speed: 20,000 km/s   End: 31. 2m    Range: 37. 5m km   WH: 9    Size: 6    TH: 86 / 52 / 26

Active Search Sensor MR45-R20 (1)     GPS 3360     Range 45. 1m km    Resolution 20
Military Search Sensor MK2 (1)     GPS 14700     Range 88. 2m km    Resolution 100
EM Detection Sensor EM2-12 (1)     Sensitivity 12     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  12m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rafale MK2 class Fighter    250 tons     7 Crew     40. 1 BP      TCS 5  TH 37. 5  EM 0
10000 km/s     Armour 1-3     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 2
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 50%    IFR 0. 7%    1YR 3    5YR 46    Max Repair 11 MSP

FTR Magneto-plasma Drive E880 (1)    Power 50. 4    Fuel Use 8800%    Signature 37. 8    Armour 0    Exp 35%
Fuel Capacity 5,000 Litres    Range 0. 4 billion km   (11 hours at full power)

10cm C0. 75 Near Ultraviolet Laser (1)    Range 32,000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 3-0. 75     RM 3    ROF 20        3 3 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S01 16-3000 (FTR) (1)    Max Range: 32,000 km   TS: 12000 km/s     69 37 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 (1)     Total Power Output 0. 9    Armour 0    Exp 5%

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and my new fighter tanker

Airbus A310 MRTT class Fighter Transport    245 tons     5 Crew     52. 7 BP      TCS 4. 9  TH 37. 5  EM 0
10204 km/s     Armour 1-3     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 49%    IFR 0. 7%    1YR 1    5YR 12    Max Repair 11 MSP

FTR Magneto-plasma Drive E880 (1)    Power 50. 4    Fuel Use 8800%    Signature 37. 8    Armour 0    Exp 35%
Fuel Capacity 170,000 Litres    Range 14. 2 billion km   (16 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes



A couple of days and i will test this beautiful ship in real combat.
Posted by: phil
« on: June 28, 2012, 12:41:07 PM »

Thanks Theokrat for the tips about the fighters. 
I will study your comments and propose a new optimized design.
Posted by: Theokrat
« on: June 28, 2012, 03:35:22 AM »

My two pence:

The Fighters have a relatively short range. Their return range is just 200m km, which is little more than twice the combat range of some middle-tech designs. Since they are also not particularly fast, they could even fail to reach their target in time to make an impact on the battle. This would be a bit of a tragedy really, even if it is not very likely. So I would advice to either use larger fuel tanks on the fighters, or have a fighter-tanker design to refuel the actual fighters - a simple "fighter" of the same speed as the Rafales, but without weapons and only fuel tanks.


The Swiftsure has different resolutions for its single firecontrol and the active sensor. This is very likely suboptimal. Either you have a target that you can see, but not fire it. Or you get a target that you could engage, but cant get a lock-on because the active sensor cant see it. I would reduce the resolution of the firecontroll, as you are way to vulnerable to FAC-attacks already.
Furthermore, the fact that you only have one firecontroll makes the whole design quite vulnerable. Damage to this one component would mission-kill the entire ship. A second FC would not be outlandish expensive and allow some redundancy, as well as allowing for more salvos at the same time. bad).
I don't really like the CIWS, as it only protects the ship that carries it. Your ships are designed to work in fleets anyway, so the same space could be used for a weapon that provides mutual protection. As an example say you have 5 ships together, each mounting a 3 CIWS. Only one ship is targeted by each incoming salvo, so you can use 2 CIWS on each incoming salvo. What would happen if gauss-guns would be used instead? They might be a bit bigger, so each ship might only be able to carry 2 gaussguns, but all 5 ships would fire on an incoming salvo netting you 10 systems that are engaging incoming salvos.

I actually do like the multiple missile-types, as the different speeds allow you to fire different salvos that reach their target at the same time, overwhelming the PD of the enemy. The logistics should not be overly complicated as well, as all missiles are a viable anti-ship weapon in its own right (so even if you are stuck with one type its not too. However the missiles could be slightly modified and yield a significantly better design. For example increasing the warhead of the heavy Tomahawk just slightly would give you a strength-9 warhead which can penetrate 2 layers of armour, which the current strength-8 warhead cant to at all. It would also cause 33% more internal damage on a 1-armour layer target, despite only weighing only 11% more. Just skim some weight of the agility, engine or fuel. The same applies to the Fast Tomahawk- a strength-4 warhead would make the missile substantially more powerful.

Lastly, your capital ships all have a slightly different engine/tonnage ratio, resulting in slightly different speeds. Since they operate together there is some room for optimization. For example you could add 100t to both the Iron Duke and the Swiftsure without falling below the speed of Kirov. This could be as simple as fuel tanks, slightly increasing the internal HTK and bringing the designs to a more uniform range as well (although that is not as important).