Posted by: coco146
« on: January 16, 2013, 03:18:49 PM »I did notice that but I upped the range so I can now see them at about 2-2.5 million km
Posted by: Charlie Beeler
« on: January 16, 2013, 08:43:48 AM »Well, I've got one now, just don't know how good it'll be.Code: [Select]Kite class Escort Cruiser 10,000 tons 164 Crew 1441.5 BP TCS 200 TH 630 EM 0
3150 km/s Armour 7-41 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 4 PPV 20
Maint Life 5.95 Years MSP 2360 AFR 200% IFR 2.8% 1YR 114 5YR 1711 Max Repair 192 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months Spare Berths 2
Magazine 440
126 EP Ion Drive, Heavy Military (5) Power 126 Fuel Use 71.17% Signature 126 Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 900,000 Litres Range 22.8 billion km (83 days at full power)
Size 1 Missile Launcher (20) Missile Size 1 Rate of Fire 10
Missile Fire Control FC18-R1 (1) Range 18.4m km Resolution 1
SMM-2 "Mauler" (440) Speed: 25,200 km/s End: 1.6m Range: 2.4m km WH: 1 Size: 1 TH: 109/65/32
Active Search Sensor MR15-R1 (1) GPS 192 Range 15.4m km Resolution 1
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
There actually is a very serious problem with this ship, the sensor suite is way to myopic. Most beginning players get tripped up here. That resolution 1 setting means the detection range of a 1hs/50ton object (ship/station/missile/etc). There is a sever range penalty to detect objects smaller that the resolution setting (sensor range * ((target hs / sensor resolution)^2).
Without EW range penalties your above MFC can only see a size 6 (or smaller) missile at roughly 662k km. That means a sz6 missile traveling at 30k/kps is only about 22seconds from impact. This means your launchers only get 1 shot at any inbound missiles.
Your Active search sensor has a similar problem. It will only detect a size 6 missile at roughly 1.7m km.
What all this means is that you can't use but a small fraction of the available range of your missile.
If I've reversed your sensor tech correctly your using AG Sensor strength 16 and EM Sensor strength 8, making your Active sensor 12hs and your MFC 4.75hs, or there abouts. Frankly you need to prioritize research for the next 2 levels of both AG and EM sensor tech. This would let you have a sz9 Active Sensor and sz3 MFC (both res 1) that can see sz6 missiles at roughly 3.8m km. Against speed 30k/kps missiles you' d then have about salvo's from each launcher (assuming ROF 10). (note MFC's are 1/3 the size of active sensors at the same resolution for the same range)
The single MFC for point defense is fine. Until you advance the various supporting missile techs you should have the missile point defense set at 5v1. this means your 10 launchers will engage a maximum of 2 missiles in the same salvo.
Posted by: Charlie Beeler
« on: January 16, 2013, 08:42:59 AM »but doing a normal transit where the ships are ferried through wont mess up my task group right?Not sure what you mean by "mess up".
A standard transit will have the TG showup on the JP.
A squadron transit will have the TG showup at a random direction from the JP at roughly the distance jump engine is rated.
With standard there is no limit to the TG's size, while squadron is limited to the JE rating.
The other difference has to do with "jump blindness". Using standard transit the "blindness" effect can last up to 30 minutes, while squadron transit is only effected up to 30 seconds. Jump Blindness means that active sensors are offline and nothing can be launched.
Posted by: coco146
« on: January 16, 2013, 08:00:53 AM »but doing a normal transit where the ships are ferried through wont mess up my task group right?
Posted by: Charlie Beeler
« on: January 16, 2013, 07:02:58 AM »The only time you really need "squadron transit" is when the jump point is directly defended.
Posted by: coco146
« on: January 16, 2013, 01:25:09 AM »Think might just stick to ferrying them for now.
Posted by: Erik L
« on: January 15, 2013, 04:53:50 PM »Okay, then do I build enough ships for the entire fleet or do I jump them through two at a time?
If you wish to do a combat transit, you need sufficient jump capacity for all of the ships. The order "Transit" will ferry the ships across to the max of the available capacity, then ferry the rest.
Posted by: coco146
« on: January 15, 2013, 04:48:49 PM »Okay, then do I build enough ships for the entire fleet or do I jump them through two at a time?
Posted by: Hawkeye
« on: January 15, 2013, 01:50:29 PM »Correct. The jumpship can take two others along.
Posted by: coco146
« on: January 15, 2013, 01:31:05 PM »OK quick question regarding my jump ship, I have max squadron size 3, does that include th e jump ship itself?
Posted by: Icecoon
« on: January 15, 2013, 10:00:33 AM »That ships is quite good, but as Black pointed out it has only pne fire control. Imagine seven incoming waves of each counting 20 enemy missiles. With that ship you will be able to target only one wave at a time with all the launchers. I go with one fire control for 4 launchers.
Posted by: Black
« on: January 15, 2013, 09:09:45 AM »Well I prefer longer deployment time, 12 months in my case. You could also use 2 fire controls.
Posted by: coco146
« on: January 15, 2013, 08:35:58 AM »Well, I've got one now, just don't know how good it'll be.
Code: [Select]
Kite class Escort Cruiser 10,000 tons 164 Crew 1441.5 BP TCS 200 TH 630 EM 0
3150 km/s Armour 7-41 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 4 PPV 20
Maint Life 5.95 Years MSP 2360 AFR 200% IFR 2.8% 1YR 114 5YR 1711 Max Repair 192 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months Spare Berths 2
Magazine 440
126 EP Ion Drive, Heavy Military (5) Power 126 Fuel Use 71.17% Signature 126 Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 900,000 Litres Range 22.8 billion km (83 days at full power)
Size 1 Missile Launcher (20) Missile Size 1 Rate of Fire 10
Missile Fire Control FC18-R1 (1) Range 18.4m km Resolution 1
SMM-2 "Mauler" (440) Speed: 25,200 km/s End: 1.6m Range: 2.4m km WH: 1 Size: 1 TH: 109/65/32
Active Search Sensor MR15-R1 (1) GPS 192 Range 15.4m km Resolution 1
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Posted by: Jorgen_CAB
« on: January 15, 2013, 08:24:50 AM »Yes... about 3.5 to 4 (or 1.75 - 2 for engines) for missiles is what I have at Ion tech as well and is enough to produce decent AMM.
Here is a missile using a 0.6MSP engine at x3.5 power modifier, 48 agility per MSP and 4 warhead strength per MSP.
It will have about 15% chance to bring down this ASM that uses the same missile technology.
To me this is barely acceptable performance from an AMM. I don't know what technology level you have but in this case you would need one additional level of warhead strength or agility (preferably both) to make the AMM worthwhile.
It you be even worse if you faced a missile like this...
Missile Size: 5 MSP (0.25 HS) Warhead: 4 Armour: 1 Manoeuvre Rating: 12
Speed: 21000 km/s Engine Endurance: 75 minutes Range: 95.0m km
Cost Per Missile: 2.7161
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 252% 3k km/s 84% 5k km/s 50.4% 10k km/s 25.2%
Materials Required: 1.25x Tritanium 1.4661x Gallicite Fuel x850
Now you are down to 10% kill ratio... pretty pathetic...
Here is a missile using a 0.6MSP engine at x3.5 power modifier, 48 agility per MSP and 4 warhead strength per MSP.
Code: [Select]
Missile Size: 1 MSP (0.05 HS) Warhead: 1 Armour: 0 Manoeuvre Rating: 17
Speed: 25200 km/s Engine Endurance: 3 minutes Range: 5.3m km
Cost Per Missile: 0.6994
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 428.4% 3k km/s 136% 5k km/s 85.7% 10k km/s 42.8%
Materials Required: 0.25x Tritanium 0.4494x Gallicite Fuel x25 It will have about 15% chance to bring down this ASM that uses the same missile technology.
Code: [Select]
Missile Size: 5 MSP (0.25 HS) Warhead: 4 Armour: 0 Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 29400 km/s Engine Endurance: 100 minutes Range: 175.9m km
Cost Per Missile: 2.8375
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 294% 3k km/s 90% 5k km/s 58.8% 10k km/s 29.4%
Materials Required: 1x Tritanium 1.8375x Gallicite Fuel x1250To me this is barely acceptable performance from an AMM. I don't know what technology level you have but in this case you would need one additional level of warhead strength or agility (preferably both) to make the AMM worthwhile.
It you be even worse if you faced a missile like this...
Missile Size: 5 MSP (0.25 HS) Warhead: 4 Armour: 1 Manoeuvre Rating: 12
Speed: 21000 km/s Engine Endurance: 75 minutes Range: 95.0m km
Cost Per Missile: 2.7161
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 252% 3k km/s 84% 5k km/s 50.4% 10k km/s 25.2%
Materials Required: 1.25x Tritanium 1.4661x Gallicite Fuel x850
Now you are down to 10% kill ratio... pretty pathetic...
Posted by: sublight
« on: January 15, 2013, 07:29:48 AM »As a 2nd opinion I typically only have have power 1.75x when I enter the Ion age (3.5x max with missile doubled) and have 2.5x power when making the transition to Magnito.
My AMM were the same speed as my ASMs, but had 20+ manuverability for 20%+ hit rate against my own stuff.
Also, using turrets when your tracking speed is that low is a waste of space. Consider using a 2x tracking speed FC with rail guns if you still want to try beam point defense.
My AMM were the same speed as my ASMs, but had 20+ manuverability for 20%+ hit rate against my own stuff.
Also, using turrets when your tracking speed is that low is a waste of space. Consider using a 2x tracking speed FC with rail guns if you still want to try beam point defense.
