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Posted by: doomsought
« on: June 26, 2013, 12:43:47 PM »

Final intercept allows weapons to get one chance to fire.  Mechanically, I'm sure I think it actually happens after the game recognizes that the missiles hit but before the game calculates miss chance.  I've seen my lasers set on PD automatically switch in the combat screen when missile speeds were too fast, so if you have weapons set to point defense they never will be completely useless.
Posted by: Charlie Beeler
« on: June 26, 2013, 10:07:26 AM »

Don't sweat it.  I get bit by the details quite often.
Posted by: GenJeFT
« on: June 26, 2013, 10:03:15 AM »

Quote from: Charlie Beeler on June 26, 2013, 09:50:01 AM
This doesn't make sense. 

First issue... game range scale is in kilometers not meters.

Second issue... the smallest time cycle for the game is 5 seconds which means that said missiles covers up to 125,000km.  2.5x the maximum range of your gauss cannons.  Manual targeting should only be able actually resolve a shot about 1 time in 3 chances.  You are probably not seeing this because the volume of systems within range are masking effect.

Third issue... manually targeted weapons will not be able to fire at missiles during the same 5 second impulse that said missiles intercept their target.  It's an issue with the game sequence, all movement is resolved prior to normal weapons fire.  The only exception is assigned final defensive fire which is resolve during movement.

@ any mod--- this really needs to be split to a separate topic in academy.

Made a big math error on my part. now I feel stupid.
Posted by: Charlie Beeler
« on: June 26, 2013, 09:50:01 AM »

Quote from: GenJeFT on June 26, 2013, 09:17:38 AM
Simple, most of the missiles I run into fly at 25,000m/s or less. So I fire at 50,000 meters, again at 25,000 meters, and again point blank in that last 5 seconds.

Why fire once when I can fire 3 times?

For extra point blank fire I still have CIWS.

I also detect the missiles at really long range so by the missiles enter PD range I usually have a really high tracking bonus. I will tell you more about it next combat I get into and get you more exact numbers.

This doesn't make sense. 

First issue... game range scale is in kilometers not meters.

Second issue... the smallest time cycle for the game is 5 seconds which means that said missiles covers up to 125,000km.  2.5x the maximum range of your gauss cannons.  Manual targeting should only be able actually resolve a shot about 1 time in 3 chances.  You are probably not seeing this because the volume of systems within range are masking effect.

Third issue... manually targeted weapons will not be able to fire at missiles during the same 5 second impulse that said missiles intercept their target.  It's an issue with the game sequence, all movement is resolved prior to normal weapons fire.  The only exception is assigned final defensive fire which is resolve during movement.

@ any mod--- this really needs to be split to a separate topic in academy.
Posted by: alex_brunius
« on: June 26, 2013, 09:41:48 AM »

Quote from: GenJeFT on June 26, 2013, 09:17:38 AM
Simple, most of the missiles I run into fly at 25,000m/s or less. So I fire at 50,000 meters, again at 25,000 meters, and again point blank in that last 5 seconds.

Why fire once when I can fire 3 times?
If a missile fly at 25,000m/s it will move 125,000m in one five second pulse before you can fire again.
Posted by: GenJeFT
« on: June 26, 2013, 09:17:38 AM »

Quote from: Charlie Beeler on June 25, 2013, 01:35:41 PM
Try a value of 5 instead of 50.  

Just curious, why are you trying to use area with such a short ranged system?  Final would much more effective all things considered.

Simple, most of the missiles I run into fly at 25,000m/s or less. So I fire at 50,000 meters, again at 25,000 meters, and again point blank in that last 5 seconds.

Why fire once when I can fire 3 times?

For extra point blank fire I still have CIWS.

I also detect the missiles at really long range so by the missiles enter PD range I usually have a really high tracking bonus. I will tell you more about it next combat I get into and get you more exact numbers.

Posted by: Brainsucker
« on: June 26, 2013, 03:45:20 AM »

Well, I have experienced my first combat.  I think the thing that Steve must repaired or change is "The Combat Assignment Overview".  The flow of combat is good.  In my first combat, It was very confusing.  Because I didn't understand about the combat mechanic at all.  I faced many trouble there.  From chasing the enemy because of my ship design flaw (my ship is a laser corvette that fire every 4 charged time), etc.  But after I understand the mechanic, it's fun.  Yet, Steve needs to repair, or if not to change a lot of things in "User Interface" here.

1st.  Rather than changing from one form to another (just because we need to direct our involved ships in combat from "system Map" and other forms (like combat assignment overview, Fleet Order, Individual Ship forms, etc), why not making a special form that will focus to combat system.  In this form, we will get a system map, individual involved ships, to buttons that involve ships and fleet maneuver in combat.  It will simplify the game a bit, but not cut the feature and the mechanic.

This form will act as CIC / Bridge / Flag bridge of the commander of individual ship / fleet.  There, you can see the map around the ship that involved in combat, buttons to "Fire", turn on/off Active sensor, etc.  You can even arrange the ships that you can control in this form (rather than choose one among all the ships that you have - it won't add micro, but consume more unnecessary time that we can cut to enjoy this game.  And there, you can read "Combat log" without opening "Event Update" form all the time.  It will simplify unnecessary micro but still keep the fun of time calculating etc that the game has.
Posted by: Charlie Beeler
« on: June 25, 2013, 01:35:41 PM »

Quote from: GenJeFT on June 25, 2013, 01:00:34 PM
I go into Ships, select the specific ship to set up the fire controls. Click on the pull tab menu for select fire mod for SFC and select area defense. Then I put in the range in Max PD range and put in 50 so it fires at the 50,000km range of my gauss turrets. But the settings dont stick. I would like my Rail guns (or MAC guns as I call them, yes I played HALO) to auto fire on enemy ships but that does not happen either. Most of my combats leaving me manually targeting everything on every ship.

Doing some testing with some really old ships.



Try a value of 5 instead of 50.  

Just curious, why are you trying to use area with such a short ranged system?  Final would much more effective all things considered.
Posted by: GenJeFT
« on: June 25, 2013, 01:00:34 PM »

Quote from: Charlie Beeler on June 25, 2013, 09:34:24 AM
@GenJeFT,  What specificly have you done for setting Area Defense? 

I go into Ships, select the specific ship to set up the fire controls. Click on the pull tab menu for select fire mod for SFC and select area defense. Then I put in the range in Max PD range and put in 50 so it fires at the 50,000km range of my gauss turrets. But the settings dont stick. I would like my Rail guns (or MAC guns as I call them, yes I played HALO) to auto fire on enemy ships but that does not happen either. Most of my combats leaving me manually targeting everything on every ship.

Doing some testing with some really old ships.

Posted by: Charlie Beeler
« on: June 25, 2013, 09:34:24 AM »

@GenJeFT,  What specificly have you done for setting Area Defense? 

@any mod...  perhaps this sub-discussion is best split to it's own topic in either Academy or Bugs.
Posted by: GenJeFT
« on: June 24, 2013, 09:23:34 PM »

My two cents.

I do like the detail of the combat. The biggest problems I have is that I seem to only be able to automate final defensive fire and that's all. Whenever I set the fire control to Area Defense it resets itself to final defensive fire. I find this incredibly annoying due to the design of my Gauss cannon defense system. My escort ships have 3 twin half size turrets with each gun firing 6 rounds each, 36 rounds per ship every 5 second interval. Now multiply that by the number of ships (the minimum being 5 ships) and you get an awe inspiring number of rounds. My larger ships have full sized twin turrets and my missile ships use two singles. One of my fleets right now fires a total of 408 shells every 5 seconds and that's not counting the rail-guns. So even at long range I am going to hit something and personally I would rather take every single opportunity to hit that I can. If I manually aim my guns not a single missile can even get close to my fleet, but I should not have to micro the aiming. Unfortunately my game does not accept area defense orders with anything.

Side note, I dont have a single AMM designed, I dont use them. I do have AFMs but never deployed them because I have yet to run into fighters.

As far as the game combat being focused around missiles, it entirely depends on your play style. I do have long range ASMs but my main combat is up close and personal with Gauss turrets and rail guns with BIG short range torpedoes (the weakest having a nuclear blast power of 49). I have yet to run into anything I cant close with unless I screw up and hit the wrong time increment button but then enough of my heavily armored fleet survives to destroy the enemy. Unsurprisingly I cant wait for shock damage in the next version. A nuclear blast power of 49 should disable most enemy ships in one shot.

One big problem is combat reports. I dont read the 400+ reports of hits or misses, its just to much. There really does need to be a summary system or something.
Posted by: doomsought
« on: June 21, 2013, 09:27:17 PM »

Having an order along the lines of pursue/attack enemy ships as a fleet order would be nice.

Also being able to set up default fire control assignments in class design would eliminate a lot of pointless copy/paste work.  A restore default button on the ship controls would round it out nicely.
Posted by: Jorgen_CAB
« on: March 18, 2013, 06:19:26 PM »

They do!!!  I must have missed that... good to know.  :)
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: March 18, 2013, 07:13:33 AM »

Quote from: Jorgen_CAB on March 15, 2013, 08:04:18 AM
It would be even more fun if the final fire setting would fire at anything in range. Currently it only protects their own TG. So if you split them up and even if they are just 10k km apart they can no longer use their short range beam weapons to fire at incoming missiles.

Hopefully there will be some change in these mechanics in the future.

Final fire protects all nearby ships, not just those in the same TG. Check your max range settings for the point defence. Ships will only use their PD to defend friendly or allied ships within that range.
Posted by: Jorgen_CAB
« on: March 15, 2013, 08:04:18 AM »

It would be even more fun if the final fire setting would fire at anything in range. Currently it only protects their own TG. So if you split them up and even if they are just 10k km apart they can no longer use their short range beam weapons to fire at incoming missiles.

Hopefully there will be some change in these mechanics in the future.