Posted by: MarcAFK
« on: November 10, 2015, 11:08:46 PM »Space shotgun would be a railgun.
Posted by: 83athom
« on: November 10, 2015, 10:22:47 PM »*Space Flamethrower
Posted by: doulos05
« on: November 10, 2015, 07:17:02 PM »Quote from: TallTroll link=topic=8029. msg82567#msg82567 date=1447192243
3) Rear area garrison : There is a thread somewhere calculating the PPV / resource cost of all weapons, and PCs win. A few old hulls refitted with big, scary looking Space Cannons reassure the civs wonderfully, even if they aren't much *actual* use. Obviously, you wouldn't want to use them anywhere you think there might be a real fight, but they are the cheapest way of releasing better ships for front line duty, without the civs getting jitterryThis also makes sense from an RP perspective. In home waters, your biggest threat would be theft and a space shotgun is pretty effective at stopping that.
Posted by: TallTroll
« on: November 10, 2015, 03:50:43 PM »Plasma Carronades have about 3 uses
1) Cheap to research : Although other weapons will quickly rack up other advantages, carronades are simple, meaning you could put more combat power into space more quickly by prioritising them
2) JP defense : The tactical situation in a JP defense is quite well suited to PCs. The opponent will appear at relatively short range, eliminating much of the range disadvantage, and the high-alpha damage / low ROF nature of PCs is much less of a disadvantage against all but the most well trained opponents
3) Rear area garrison : There is a thread somewhere calculating the PPV / resource cost of all weapons, and PCs win. A few old hulls refitted with big, scary looking Space Cannons reassure the civs wonderfully, even if they aren't much *actual* use. Obviously, you wouldn't want to use them anywhere you think there might be a real fight, but they are the cheapest way of releasing better ships for front line duty, without the civs getting jitterry
1) Cheap to research : Although other weapons will quickly rack up other advantages, carronades are simple, meaning you could put more combat power into space more quickly by prioritising them
2) JP defense : The tactical situation in a JP defense is quite well suited to PCs. The opponent will appear at relatively short range, eliminating much of the range disadvantage, and the high-alpha damage / low ROF nature of PCs is much less of a disadvantage against all but the most well trained opponents
3) Rear area garrison : There is a thread somewhere calculating the PPV / resource cost of all weapons, and PCs win. A few old hulls refitted with big, scary looking Space Cannons reassure the civs wonderfully, even if they aren't much *actual* use. Obviously, you wouldn't want to use them anywhere you think there might be a real fight, but they are the cheapest way of releasing better ships for front line duty, without the civs getting jitterry
Posted by: Havear
« on: November 10, 2015, 01:57:25 AM »Maybe for balance they should require less power or reload faster than the equilivent lasers?
That doesn't address their primary issue, assuming one could get through to fielding them: they simply *suck* as weapons. If they're used against anything that can shoot, unless they're solely gauss-armed, they'll be shredded before ranging in unless there's some horrifyingly rare extenuating circumstances. If it can't shoot and still fly, you're stuck with the disadvantages of beam weapons still (namely catching and holding the range). If it can't shoot and doesn't move, it's probably got an atmosphere, and thus renders them useless as well.
Posted by: linkxsc
« on: November 09, 2015, 06:40:50 PM »If anything should become civilian it should really be gauss cannon, as mentioned CIWS which are Based on gauss are already civ, though I would prefer if hangers became civilian systems, historically WWII merchant vessels were protected either by escorts, added guns, freighters modified entirely into warships (limited effectiveness) or catapult launched escort planes. They couldn't recover the planes however.
Yeah but GCs would force 1 single research line for the idea of "merchant defense" and they're already like, #2 on the list of most important things to research. Really, its either A you have some EW researches and you go laser PD, or you have all M/K researchers and you get GCs. Almost annoying that you actually need A EW guy to get the turret speed tech, other than that, you coudl get away with never researching an EW
Even more than that I just kinda wish you could make "civilian" hangers and magazines. Warships can't load out of them, and they can't launch fighters unless stationed at a planet. And they have no ejection chance (so they don't get brought into combat) This way you can more cheaply ferry missiles and fighters to forward bases, rather than needing to rely on actual carriers to do it (or the ever so fun, fly all the fighters with some tankers, and watch as all the fighters start breaking down)
Posted by: MarcAFK
« on: November 09, 2015, 06:15:19 PM »If anything should become civilian it should really be gauss cannon, as mentioned CIWS which are Based on gauss are already civ, though I would prefer if hangers became civilian systems, historically WWII merchant vessels were protected either by escorts, added guns, freighters modified entirely into warships (limited effectiveness) or catapult launched escort planes. They couldn't recover the planes however.
Posted by: linkxsc
« on: November 09, 2015, 05:51:37 PM »Maybe for balance they should require less power or reload faster than the equilivent lasers?Well...
They WERE intended to be a light, close range gun for merchant ships to defend themselves with... Make them commercially viable? Massed carronades on enormous merchant armored blockships? Though just about anything could kite that. But it would give merchant ships a crossover defense. Currently they can only defend themselves from missiles with CIWS. With this addition, they might be able to take potshots at AI beam fighters, in self defense, and still act as missile defense. They might have a lot to-hit due to poor tracking, but unlike previous CIWS, they can be used in final defensive fire, protecting other merchant ships in a task group.
On top of that, they're already the shortest range (other than GC), and can't be turreted. Could... actually make for some rather interesting new design options.
Posted by: MarcAFK
« on: November 09, 2015, 04:14:46 PM »Maybe for balance they should require less power or reload faster than the equilivent lasers?
Posted by: linkxsc
« on: November 09, 2015, 01:48:32 PM »Unless I'm extremely mistaken, cloaking isn't powerful enough to have any application for beam combatants.Dunno about other peoples attempts, cloaking is only effective for getting missile toting ships in closer to use shorter range higher damage missiles. I guess at extremely high tech levels, you could slap them onto beam fighters so they can get that much closer, but by those tech levels it'd be useless anyways, and you'd probably want lasers anyways for their longer range.
Carronades aren't terribly attractive weapons, their main draw apart from low research costs for large calibers is low crew requirements. Limited applications in Jump Point Monitors that are meant to repel an assault in a single salvo while making the locals feels safe (PPV cares about damage, not range or rate of fire).
Infrared lasers are even cheaper, with a better damage profile and more options... but for cheap bulky ships crew quarters are a bigger expense than the weapons themselves.
Plasma Carronades and Particle Beams could get a little boost, at their best they are hardly better than purpose-built lasers in the narrow range of conditions in which they work at all. For carronades, it would be interesting if they lower mass than other guns of the same caliber, like their age of sail counterparts.
Carronades themselves might seem like a decent weapon, but they're outranged by everything, and a ship of the same tech can probably just kite any carronade equipped ships. Even if you can get them into range, their damage output isn't that significantly higher than other beam weapons. And though they have shock effects... A high powered laser of the same tech will probably just penetrate anyways. (I like me some high powered lasers) Even large caliber rails have better odds of crippling a ship over large carronades.
Posted by: Havear
« on: November 09, 2015, 11:40:42 AM »Their age of sail counterparts had the advantage of being low-mass and capable of firing slightly more rapidly, making them great secondary deck-weapons and for close range and boarding combat. The problem in Aurora is there isn't a reason, or really ability, to close to the range that carronades require seeing as even the most basic alternatives usually outrange them. Perhaps a combination of cloaking and a very high speed advantage to get through both the AMM and beam envelopes, but those are both highly expensive for what amounts to an extremely niche proposal that, unless you purposely work on it, is unlikely to ever happen.
Perhaps completely ignoring atmospheric density isn't the best option as 83athom suggests, instead making them far less affected by it. Regardless, the close-assault planetary niche is one I think they could fit in very well, perhaps even (with their low crew requirements) attractive as secondary weapons on troop carriers/assault ships.
Perhaps completely ignoring atmospheric density isn't the best option as 83athom suggests, instead making them far less affected by it. Regardless, the close-assault planetary niche is one I think they could fit in very well, perhaps even (with their low crew requirements) attractive as secondary weapons on troop carriers/assault ships.
Posted by: Iranon
« on: November 09, 2015, 07:32:35 AM »Unless I'm extremely mistaken, cloaking isn't powerful enough to have any application for beam combatants.
Carronades aren't terribly attractive weapons, their main draw apart from low research costs for large calibers is low crew requirements. Limited applications in Jump Point Monitors that are meant to repel an assault in a single salvo while making the locals feels safe (PPV cares about damage, not range or rate of fire).
Infrared lasers are even cheaper, with a better damage profile and more options... but for cheap bulky ships crew quarters are a bigger expense than the weapons themselves.
Plasma Carronades and Particle Beams could get a little boost, at their best they are hardly better than purpose-built lasers in the narrow range of conditions in which they work at all. For carronades, it would be interesting if they lower mass than other guns of the same caliber, like their age of sail counterparts.
Carronades aren't terribly attractive weapons, their main draw apart from low research costs for large calibers is low crew requirements. Limited applications in Jump Point Monitors that are meant to repel an assault in a single salvo while making the locals feels safe (PPV cares about damage, not range or rate of fire).
Infrared lasers are even cheaper, with a better damage profile and more options... but for cheap bulky ships crew quarters are a bigger expense than the weapons themselves.
Plasma Carronades and Particle Beams could get a little boost, at their best they are hardly better than purpose-built lasers in the narrow range of conditions in which they work at all. For carronades, it would be interesting if they lower mass than other guns of the same caliber, like their age of sail counterparts.
Posted by: 83athom
« on: November 09, 2015, 06:56:38 AM »Stealth Plasma Carronadeers? Almost invisible until it gets to pb range then unloads streams of plasma right into their faces. One of the only weapon techs I got from a random assignment roll are PC tech, and I have a 300mm one designed and researching so I might post a possible design in the near future (when I get cloaking tech).
Posted by: Sematary
« on: November 08, 2015, 10:07:12 PM »I don't think they are supposed to be very useful. Carronades, as in the actual weapon, were really terrible cannons that almost never played a significant role in any naval battle due to their extreme short range.
Posted by: 83athom
« on: November 08, 2015, 07:24:43 PM »I see the Carronades as a flame thrower. So maybe instead of ignoring the atmosphere, maybe it shaves a bit off as it is bombarding the planet below. Also there is a Plasma Torpedo that you get from Precursors which is a direct equivalent to the Covenant's weaponry.
