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Posted by: MarcAFK
« on: December 29, 2015, 11:33:14 PM »

The only problem I have with the discovery C is the resolution 60 sensor seems pointless, assuming you arm it with the Aegis which has 11 million range and is your AMM which makes sense as a self defence missile, you won't be taking advantage of that sensors range. You wouldn't want to add longer ranged missiles either as magazine space is limited.
I see you're using a reduced size res 1 sensor compared to the Oregon, it's better to use the full size one if space is available. But if not you're better off either increasing the range of the res 1 using the soace taken up by your res 60, or what I would do on a similar design which is design a resolution 60 that's 11 million kilometers so your AMMs can be fired at full range against larger ships. You'll save some space which could go towards something else.
Furthermore 2 launchers isn't really effective either as AMM or particularly for anti ship use. As you haven't quite reached the full size of your jump drive you could cram another couple of size 1 launchers in. I would have minimum of 6 for self defence of a ship like that. More magazine space would be useful too.
Posted by: DIT_grue
« on: December 29, 2015, 11:10:12 PM »

Quote from: plasticpanzers on December 29, 2015, 02:49:37 AM
They work fine with the commercial jump drive.
IIRC, the rule is supposed to be that a commercial jump drive won't work with military engines, so the Discovery would be fine, yes.
Posted by: plasticpanzers
« on: December 29, 2015, 02:49:37 AM »

They work fine with the commercial jump drive.  Ships (now C version after some of the suggestions) doing quite well.
Added the AMMs as a last resort defence (forlorn hope) in case they run across hostiles.

Discovery C class Survey Ship    8,700 tons     152 Crew     1148.8 BP      TCS 174  TH 96  EM 0
2298 km/s    JR 1-25(C)     Armour 1-37     Shields 0-0     Sensors 20/28/1/2     Damage Control Rating 6     PPV 2
Maint Life 5.45 Years     MSP 1495    AFR 100%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 85    5YR 1268    Max Repair 200 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 48 months    Spare Berths 0   
Magazine 32   

JC9K Commercial Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 9000 tons    Distance 25k km     Squadron Size 1
Northrup (25) 5-400 EP Commercial Magneto-plasma Drive (1)    Power 400    Fuel Use 4.42%    Signature 96    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 250,000 Litres    Range 117.0 billion km   (589 days at full power)

Phalanx CIWS-160 (2x4)    Range 1000 km     TS: 16000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Aegis PD R-1 Missile Launcher (2)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Aegis PD Missile Fire Control FC11-R1 (70%) (1)     Range 11.1m km    Resolution 1

Ship Active Search Sensor MR89-R60 (70%) (1)     GPS 6300     Range 89.5m km    Resolution 60
Hawkeye Active Search Sensor MR5-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 53     Range 5.8m km    MCR 628k km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH2.5-20 (1)     Sensitivity 20     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  20m km
EM Detection Sensor EM2.5-27.5 (1)     Sensitivity 27.5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  27.5m km
Gravitational Survey Sensors (1)   1 Survey Points Per Hour
Geological Survey Sensors (2)   2 Survey Points Per Hour

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Posted by: AL
« on: December 29, 2015, 02:46:04 AM »

From my understanding commercial jump engines will still work on military ships, you just won't have the fast jump blindness recovery that a military jump drive will give.
Posted by: Sematary
« on: December 29, 2015, 02:39:41 AM »

The Discovery's jump engines won't work. It's classed as a military vessel with commercial jump engines.
Posted by: plasticpanzers
« on: December 28, 2015, 11:48:34 PM »

Found one...ouch.   thanks
Posted by: MarcAFK
« on: December 28, 2015, 11:21:11 PM »

Selecting 0 NPRs means there's none to start with, but as long as you have the NPR spawn rate over 0% you'll eventually see some through exploration.
You can also spawn some using the "add new NPR" button on the main menu bar.0
Posted by: sloanjh
« on: December 28, 2015, 11:13:59 PM »

Quote from: plasticpanzers on December 28, 2015, 09:43:14 PM
had a response and lost it again darnit..

Someone else mentioned this, but you might not have noticed it.  If you get the 403 error (or have any other problem), try hitting the "back" button on your browser - I think you'll recover what you had typed.  You can then use a binary search algorithm (cutting out bits of the message) to figure out where the problem words are.

I also try to remember to do a "copy" on entire messages before I hit the post button, but I often forget this.

John
Posted by: plasticpanzers
« on: December 28, 2015, 09:43:14 PM »

had a response and lost it again darnit..

Appreciate the comments.   Since there are 1st Gen ships I expect to update and adapt the design as I go along.   I like survey ships with
reallly long range so they can perform mulitple missions if need be, both grav and geo survey in systems far away from support.  I will
experiment with different engine packs to find a good balance.   The active sensors on them are not engaged unless they are seen then
they are there to gain info on who's going to kill them (last gasp).

On missiles I have gone from 6 to 9 and back again in different games.   It mostly depends on warhead strength.  My Nike is fast enough
and hits hard enough to make up for a slightly wimpy warhead.   As I improve research with stronger warheads I will most likely go back
to size 6 launcers and missiles.

On the res sensor which appears the big issue it appears its both my fault thu continious error after making the first error and a bug i see
in patch 7.   When you research a new item (like my R1 sensors or any system) they don't always show up on the design screen.  you have
to hit the own tech x off and on and suddenly all the techs you were researching appear.   Sometimes even engines don't show up.  All do
appear in my first 25 or so test game (I test run a game alot before getting serious) that were pre patch 7 I had no problem and had the R1
sensors and even my ASM were taking out enemy missiles.   After post patch 7 this issue occured and I did not notice it and repeatidly left
out systems on my ships when designing them thinking they were complete when they were not.   I repeated the error or omission over and
over in the last few dozen tests (which were much shorter games and more frustrating as I did not see my error or notice the bug).

Now that I know of the game bug (small but vital) and my error in not seeing it the Oregon's (which are not even completed yet) will go right
back into refit with some upgrades probably included some suggested here (tho I like my Nikes!).

The warships have standard squadron jump and the survey self only.   I will tinker on designs more.  I also started the game with 40 labs instead
of the usual 5-9 for a Republic (that I play) so I am more advance for my 30th year into the game with a good industrial base in Sol.   I don't know
how it effects the game but I hit 0 on NPR races so I don't know if they will pop up later or if there are any at all or how that works.  Still a test
game anyhow.

Thank you again for the inputs and I will muse over them while trying to keep the TF alive without too much asprin.....
Posted by: CharonJr
« on: December 28, 2015, 12:06:47 PM »

Some additional thoughts on the survey ship, you could lower the engineering down to 4y and since it is classed military anyway use 2 smaller military engines for better speed/weight. This should leave some space for additional survey sensors. The only downside would be more fuel being used, but even adding more fuel should still end up with saved weight from the engines since 100bn range should be more than enough for quite some time with 4y of deployment time at those speeds.

I assume that your jump tech is not high enough for self jump engines. Maybe try to lower the weight to the point that you can use self jump. I think the design I posted in the other thread had self jump and you might be able to trade some armor from that design for some grav sensors.

And the only use for active sensors on such a ship is most likely trying to get a better look at enemy ships right before being killed. I am not sure if those passives are good enough to detect enemy missiles before impact.
Posted by: Zincat
« on: December 28, 2015, 08:35:01 AM »

Now let me start with the science vessel. It's not a bad ship. There are still a few things which in my opinion could be done better but it's not bad. My suggestions would be:
- I would put 2 geological and gravitational sensors on board. A ship like this will pass a lot of time standing still and prospecting/surveying. Multiplying by 2 the sensors means cutting that time in half
- You could probably lower fuel and engineering bays a bit. The ship has a planned deployment time of 4 years, quite a bit of that she will be not moving and prospecting /surveying instead
- I question the utility of the active sensors on this kind of ship. Keep in mind, using an active sensor is kind of like lighting a fire and shouting "hey I'm here". Not the best approach for an unarmed, science vessel ship. Passive sensors instead are good, perfectly fit for this kind of ship. Stealthied engine is also good. You can also cut down armor a bit for more speed, but that's optional.

Regarding the destroyer I see a few problems.
- The biggest one is that you do not have a resolution 1 active sensor. Without a resolution 1 active sensor you will NOT see incoming missiles! And so your point defense weapons will not shoot. Remembering the other thread you posted, this is probably why you did not see incoming missiles. And yes, it happened to all of us some time or another :) Your warships should have a resolution 1 or similar active sensor for missiles and fighters, and a higher resolution long range sensor for  bigger ships (like the one you have).
- You have a single engine. While that is more efficient for fuel, it's more risky. A single lucky hit you take might destroy your only engine leaving the ship dead in space. This is why most people go with multiple, smaller engines for warships. You'll lose some fuel efficiency, but gain in resilience against hits.
- Generally speaking, your anti-missile capabilities are a bit on the low side. 2 AMM launchers and one CIWS. Even in a squadron of four ships, that would not be enough to stop a somewhat serious missile attack.
- The missiles are a bit big. You might wonder why that's a problem, but the bigger the missile, the easier it is to destroy it. You wanted very high chances to hit probably, and also I'm not sure on how high are the technologies involved in that missile. But being so big, it risks getting intercepted quite a lot. Still it could work.... depends on what enemy you face.
- The range is not the best. That's not a problem per se. You just have to keep in mind and keep a tanker available to refuel!

Those are the main points. After that, it's a matter of preference. A valid tactic to increase weapon space on board of ships is to not have a jump drive on every ship. Instead you could use a dedicated "jump tender" ship which moves the ships from star system to star system, and use the freed up space for more weapons, armor and the like. It is a lot less versatile though, so it's a matter of preference.
Posted by: doulos05
« on: December 28, 2015, 06:45:26 AM »

Those look like something I might build. Probably not a good sign for my upcoming first contacts based on your stories!

The only useful critique I can offer is that I don't see an active search sensor for detecting missiles. You'll need an R1 Active search sensor or you won't detect the missiles until they were striking the sector array. Not sure if that's the source of your previous problems, but it will definitely be a problem on this iteration.
Posted by: MarcAFK
« on: December 28, 2015, 05:08:34 AM »

As a generalised design which is crippled by carrying a jump drive it's allright. However it does lack a missile sensor so I'll assume it will be accompanied by a more specialised defence escort?
Posted by: Sematary
« on: December 28, 2015, 05:05:10 AM »

I have plenty to say about these designs but I am at work so it will be about six hours before I can.
Posted by: plasticpanzers
« on: December 28, 2015, 03:50:48 AM »

This is my Oregon class Destroyer that escorts in squadrons of 4 the 4-ship survey squadrons.
Not as fast as others but 1st design and will be improved upon.   meant to fight as 4 ships squadron.



Oregon class Destroyer    16,200 tons     491 Crew     3213 BP      TCS 324  TH 240  EM 720
3086 km/s    JR 3-50     Armour 3-57     Shields 24-400     Sensors 20/28/0/0     Damage Control Rating 12     PPV 48.28
Maint Life 3.46 Years     MSP 3488    AFR 174%    IFR 2.4%    1YR 444    5YR 6667    Max Repair 1000 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Spare Berths 1   
Magazine 443   

J16200(3-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 16200 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3
Northrup (25) 5-1000 EP Magneto-plasma Drive (1)    Power 1000    Fuel Use 43.67%    Signature 240    Exp 12%
Fuel Capacity 700,000 Litres    Range 17.8 billion km   (66 days at full power)
Gamma R400/240 Shields (12)   Total Fuel Cost  120 Litres per hour  (2,880 per day)

Twin Colt 15cm C3 Visible Light Laser Turret (1x2)    Range 120,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 12-6     RM 2    ROF 10        6 6 4 3 2 2 1 1 1 1
Phalanx CIWS-160 (1x4)    Range 1000 km     TS: 16000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Ship Fire Control S06 72-16000 H70 (1)    Max Range: 144,000 km   TS: 16000 km/s     93 86 79 72 65 58 51 44 37 31
Edison E4 Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 (1)     Total Power Output 18    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Vanguard 55/9 Missile Launcher (4)    Missile Size 9    Rate of Fire 55
Aegis PD R-1 Missile Launcher (2)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Aegis PD Missile Fire Control FC11-R1 (70%) (1)     Range 11.1m km    Resolution 1
Ship Missile Fire Control FC134-R60 (70%) (1)     Range 134.2m km    Resolution 60

Ship Active Search Sensor MR89-R60 (70%) (1)     GPS 6300     Range 89.5m km    Resolution 60
Thermal Sensor TH2.5-20 (1)     Sensitivity 20     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  20m km
EM Detection Sensor EM2.5-27.5 (1)     Sensitivity 27.5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  27.5m km

ECCM-1 (1)         ECM 10

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

My primary missile.  Nike XII S-9 ASM missile

Missile Size: 9 MSP  (0.45 HS)     Warhead: 12    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 19
Speed: 21300 km/s    Engine Endurance: 69 minutes   Range: 88.1m km
Cost Per Missile: 7
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 404.7%   3k km/s 133%   5k km/s 80.9%   10k km/s 40.5%
Materials Required:    3x Tritanium   4x Gallicite   Fuel x1250

Development Cost for Project: 700RP