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Posted by: Mor
« on: January 29, 2016, 10:17:14 PM »

I am trying to update the wiki, but there are some conflicting versions. Is the info in the above post still accurate and does anyone want to check the second part? 
Posted by: sloanjh
« on: January 25, 2015, 08:35:04 AM »

Quote from: iceball3 on January 24, 2015, 05:29:27 PM
Gah! So much confusing cross information going on! I'll have to make a debug test save and test it out myself, as who knows who is talking about which version. . .
I'll get back to you all on this, yeah

It's not that confusing if you remember the techno-babble Steve used when he set up the distinction.  EDIT:  This was a long time ago, but it should be unchanged.  It's possible but unlikely that Steve broke it when he did the engine redesign a couple of years ago.

1)  There's two types of engines: Military and Civilian.  If a ship mounts military engines then it is a military ship for maintenance purposes.  If a ship mounts civilian engines then it might still be a military ship for maintenance purposes, since it might mount a different military system such as a plasma cannon.  As Jorgen_CAB pointed out it's the engine type, not the maintenance type that matters.

2)  There's also two types of jump drives: Military and Civilian.  The difference is that the wormhole created by a military jump drive is "more stable" than the one created by a civilian jump drive.  (That's part of the technobabble.)

3)  Military engines are "higher energy" than civilian engines, and so are more de-stabilizing to the wormhole they pass through.  (That's the other part of the techno babble.)

4)  Military jump drives produce a wormhole that is stable enough to handle a military engine; civilian jump drives do not.

So a military jump drive can be used for ships that have any sort of engine, while a civilian jump drive can only be used for ships with civilian engines.

That being said, there are two subtleties for which I don't remember which way it goes:

A)  Tugs.  If a tug with a civilian engine tries to tow a ship with a military engine through a wormhole, does it work?  My strong but vague recollection is that it does not, even though one could argue that the military engine of the tow is turned off.  One could technobabble that the properties of the drive that destabilize the wormhole are present whether the engine is operating if one wanted technobabble to justify this.

B)  "Standard" jump vs. "Squadron" jump.  The wormhole used in a standard jump is a lot more stable (long term) than the one used in a squadron jump, so there's a small chance that Steve set it up to allow a commercial drive to jump military engines.  I'm almost positive this is not the case, but I don't remember well enough to be certain.

One more thing:  You need to be careful that the size of the ship mounting the jump drive is AT LEAST as big as the jump drive capacity.  The capacity of the wormhole is the LESSER of the size of the ship and the capacity of the jump engine.  So if you put a 50K ton jump drive on a 40K ton ship, the capacity of the wormhole would be 40K ton, NOT 50.

John
Posted by: iceball3
« on: January 24, 2015, 05:29:27 PM »

Gah! So much confusing cross information going on! I'll have to make a debug test save and test it out myself, as who knows who is talking about which version. . .
I'll get back to you all on this, yeah
Posted by: Jorgen_CAB
« on: January 24, 2015, 02:48:08 AM »

You are mixing apples with bananas here...  ;)

It does not matter what ship it is but what drive system it has. So... a ship with a commercial JP drive system can't be used to jump a ship with a military drive system.

Though, l'm not sure but I do think a militar JD can jump a ship with commercial drives... I will have to check that though.

So... if it is a commercial or military ship have no impact.
Posted by: 83athom
« on: January 23, 2015, 06:42:15 PM »

That's weird because I made my jump tender almost the exact same and it could not go through the JPs.
Posted by: GreatTuna
« on: January 23, 2015, 03:14:14 PM »

In fact, military JD can port both civilian AND military ships.
I have this design flying on mineral shipping duty:
Code: [Select]
Sovremenny III class Jump Freighter    10 000 tons     112 Crew     596 BP      TCS 200  TH 1000  EM 0
5000 km/s    JR 3-50     Armour 1-41     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 6     PPV 0
MSP 224    Max Repair 250 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 48 months    Spare Berths 0   
Cargo 5000    Cargo Handling Multiplier 10   

Sidorov & Popov J10K Prizhkoviy dvigatel     Max Ship Size 10000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3
Kiselyov Techsystems 1000 EP Commercial Solid Core AM Drive (1)    Power 1000    Fuel Use 2.21%    Signature 1000    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 500 000 Litres    Range 407.2 billion km   (942 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes
As you can see, it uses military drive while being itself commercial. It passes through the jump points just fine.
Posted by: 83athom
« on: January 23, 2015, 02:42:44 PM »

Military JD cannot jump civilian ships and civilian JD cannot jump military ships. The rest as stated above.
Posted by: GreatTuna
« on: January 23, 2015, 01:36:33 PM »

The commercial jump drives:

They have 3\4 efficiency compared to military drives;
Max (squadron) jump radius is halved;
Max squadron size is reduced by one;
Cost stays the same;
Size is 10x compared to military drives.

Therefore, an x "size" commercial jump drive will be able to support 7.5x the mass compared to the x "size" military jump drive, while being unable to port military ships (though IIRC one can install commercial drive on military ship, with predictable results) and having all the differences stated above.
Posted by: swarm_sadist
« on: January 23, 2015, 01:05:24 PM »

As I recall:

Civilian JD cannot jump military ships, although a Military JD can jump both. Civilian JD are also 10x larger for the same cost, and have a longer sensor blindness effect than military ones.
Posted by: Felius
« on: January 23, 2015, 12:58:06 PM »

It at least used to that you couldn't use civilian tenders to jump ships with military engines and/or were classified as military vessels. On the other hand, I have read reports that in the current version the only difference was the minor loss in efficiency and other stats, a mandatory bigger size, and the much lower cost.

Anyone can confirm it either way?