Posted by: iceball3
« on: March 09, 2016, 09:59:21 AM »He wasn't. I was suggesting that the cost was 1 BP per 10 tons, which translates to 5 BP per HS/50 tons. He confirmed that.Ah, shoot, sorry about that, I misread.
Posted by: bean
« on: March 08, 2016, 01:12:05 PM »But 1 HS is 50 tons, not 10 tons? Unless you were stating to disagree with the previous point.He wasn't. I was suggesting that the cost was 1 BP per 10 tons, which translates to 5 BP per HS/50 tons. He confirmed that.
Posted by: iceball3
« on: March 08, 2016, 10:57:27 AM »Yes, a 1 HS size difference costs 5BP.But 1 HS is 50 tons, not 10 tons? Unless you were stating to disagree with the previous point.
Posted by: db48x
« on: March 07, 2016, 03:58:12 PM »Yes, a 1 HS size difference costs 5BP.
Posted by: bean
« on: March 07, 2016, 11:24:02 AM »The "difference" cost increases the more difference in size the two ships have, whether larger or smaller.I think he was looking for an equation.
The wiki claims that the size overhead is equal to 1/10th the difference in size, which is unfortunately lacking in units. At a guess, that might be 1 BP per 10 tons.
Posted by: iceball3
« on: March 07, 2016, 11:13:32 AM »How does that "size overhead" thing work?The "difference" cost increases the more difference in size the two ships have, whether larger or smaller.
Posted by: Sheb
« on: March 07, 2016, 01:40:48 AM »How does that "size overhead" thing work?
Posted by: bean
« on: March 06, 2016, 10:00:16 PM »Shouldn't it be "every ship of less than 4000 BP", since 4000 is 20% of 20000 BP?No, because you have to pay the size overhead margin. 1000 BP was my estimate of that margin for typical cases. Any ship of the same size could cost up to 4000 BP but ships of different sizes would have to be cheaper.
Posted by: iceball3
« on: March 06, 2016, 06:58:11 PM »Shouldn't it be "every ship of less than 4000 BP", since 4000 is 20% of 20000 BP?Well, not necessarily every ship. Size difference still is a cost margin to consider.
Posted by: Sheb
« on: March 06, 2016, 04:24:24 PM »I was unclear. The margin is dependent on refit price, which is dependent on components. But the game doesn't just look at components. If I have a ship that's 20,000 BP, most designs of 3000 BP or less will be buildable at the same shipyard, regardless of size (well, so long as they're below the shipyard's capacity) or what components they use.
Shouldn't it be "every ship of less than 4000 BP", since 4000 is 20% of 20000 BP?
Posted by: bean
« on: March 06, 2016, 03:21:12 PM »It's weird, because if it was this simple, a pair of ships of similar tonnage would always have one of the two able to build both. Or did I miss something?I was unclear. The margin is dependent on refit price, which is dependent on components. But the game doesn't just look at components. If I have a ship that's 20,000 BP, most designs of 3000 BP or less will be buildable at the same shipyard, regardless of size (well, so long as they're below the shipyard's capacity) or what components they use.
Posted by: TheDeadlyShoe
« on: March 06, 2016, 02:11:25 PM »differences in hull tonnage count more than anything :^)
Removing components is free. Armor is a component like anything else.
You can see the refit cost from a particular ship in the DAC screen. Or, if you have a design tooled, you can see a detailed and explicit breakdown of refit costs (including the tonnage difference overhead) in the shipyards screen.
Removing components is free. Armor is a component like anything else.
You can see the refit cost from a particular ship in the DAC screen. Or, if you have a design tooled, you can see a detailed and explicit breakdown of refit costs (including the tonnage difference overhead) in the shipyards screen.
Posted by: Nyvis
« on: March 06, 2016, 02:05:09 PM »Okay, so it does look at the components. Am I understanding right when I say removing a component is free? And differences in hull size do not count. Do armour tonnage count?
Posted by: TheDeadlyShoe
« on: March 06, 2016, 01:39:35 PM »Kinda?
like lets say you have two destroyer designs of identical tonnage. They have an identical armament and secondary systems. one has commercial engines that cost 400 bp, and costs 2000 bp total. the other has military engines that cost 1000 bp and costs 2600 bp total. If the shipyard is tooled to the military design, then the difference between the two is just the commercial engines that cost 400 bp, which is only about 15% of the 2600 bp design's cost. so you could build both. But if the shipyard is tooled to the commercial engine design, than the difference is the military engines, which cost 50% of the 2000 BP design's cost. Therefore, you could not build the military-engine design from the commercial yard.
However, if you had some sort of design that somehow costs 15,000 BP with identical tonnage tooled at that yard, then the every component for the commercial design (13%) and the military design (17%) are under the 20% margin, so you could build the 15000 bp design, the 2600 bp design, and the 2000 bp design from the same shipyard.
OTOH, if you had a missile ship of 2000 bp where 800 bp was missile weapons, and very similar 2000 bp energy combatant with 800 bp of energy weapons, neither tooling could build the other ship because they are both over the 20% limit.
like lets say you have two destroyer designs of identical tonnage. They have an identical armament and secondary systems. one has commercial engines that cost 400 bp, and costs 2000 bp total. the other has military engines that cost 1000 bp and costs 2600 bp total. If the shipyard is tooled to the military design, then the difference between the two is just the commercial engines that cost 400 bp, which is only about 15% of the 2600 bp design's cost. so you could build both. But if the shipyard is tooled to the commercial engine design, than the difference is the military engines, which cost 50% of the 2000 BP design's cost. Therefore, you could not build the military-engine design from the commercial yard.
However, if you had some sort of design that somehow costs 15,000 BP with identical tonnage tooled at that yard, then the every component for the commercial design (13%) and the military design (17%) are under the 20% margin, so you could build the 15000 bp design, the 2600 bp design, and the 2000 bp design from the same shipyard.
OTOH, if you had a missile ship of 2000 bp where 800 bp was missile weapons, and very similar 2000 bp energy combatant with 800 bp of energy weapons, neither tooling could build the other ship because they are both over the 20% limit.
Posted by: Nyvis
« on: March 06, 2016, 01:18:53 PM »This is correct. It does lead to odd situations at times, but remember that 'easy to program' is a key criteria on these things. Specifically, large military vessels often have a lot of very small craft that can be built at the same shipyard, because they cost so much less than the big ship.
It's weird, because if it was this simple, a pair of ships of similar tonnage would always have one of the two able to build both. Or did I miss something?
