Aurora 4x
VB6 Aurora => Bureau of Ship Design => Topic started by: Brainsucker on June 26, 2013, 07:09:24 PM
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I want to make a fighter for early technology era (research level 0, in Nuclear Thermal Engine Era), but no weapon can fit to it's small (250 tonnage) body. Even laser weapon need bigger space that can't even fit to a light fighter. So can anybody give me ideas and designs?
So, maybe I can put a size 1 missile launcher (50 ton) but what role would this small guy can do with 1 small missile on each sorties ?
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I want to make a fighter for early technology era (research level 0, in Nuclear Thermal Engine Era), but no weapon can fit to it's small (250 tonnage) body. Even laser weapon need bigger space that can't even fit to a light fighter. So can anybody give me ideas and designs?
So, maybe I can put a size 1 missile launcher (50 ton) but what role would this small guy can do with 1 small missile on each sorties ?
CAP or PD.
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If your missile launchers are 50 tons, you should be able to fit two of them on there. Use another 2HS for fighter engines, and the last HS for a little fire control and a small/tiny fuel tank. Make sure you remove the bridge and the normal-sized fuel tank.
Two little missiles by themselves won't do very much. But build 40 of these fighters (to fill 10000 of hangar space), and you can launch a volley of 80 missiles. That could be fairly annoying to an enemy ship if you catch it alone.
But seriously, prioritize research into smaller missile launchers! And everything else!
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To be honest, I want to re-produce the feel of Wing Commander Game; where I will focus on fighter instead of capital ship. I use the online reference for this, but I think I can't make a perfect replica for the fighters. well, I don't know. Wing Commanders was known to have a lot of fighter type.
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The one problem I have found in this game is the massive size of so called 'fighter' craft, even the modern B2 stealth bomber is only 152tons, while the smallest viable fighter design and low to mid tech is about 250 tons (as joeclark said). I've found that if I think of fighters as equivalent to small naval patrol boats the game makes a bit more sense.
If you truly want a 250ton fighter analogue then you really need to get reduced size launchers, box launchers are of course the best for this, but they require quite a bit of research. Assuming no prior research in size reduction it takes 22 000 research points to get to box launchers. You have said that you want an early design, perhaps use 1/3 size launchers as that only requires 6 000 research points. Using a Tiny Engineering Bay and Tiny Fuel Storage (6 000, and 4 000 research points respectively) you can create a 242ton fighter with 3 size 1 33% size reduction launchers, or a 259ton fighter with 4 launchers.
Of course these take 600 seconds to reload if you have not researched any reload speed techs, and would require them to land on their carrier to do so as there is no room for a magazine without adding another 50tons to the design.
Random Example
P11 Salamander class Fighter 259 tons 9 Crew 123.38 BP TCS 5.17 TH 19.2 EM 0
15473 km/s Armour 1-3 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 0 PPV 1.32
Maint Life 18.55 Years MSP 75 AFR 2% IFR 0% 1YR 0 5YR 6 Max Repair 80 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 1 months Spare Berths 1
Magazine 4
Tier 4 - SC Magneto Plasma EP80 FC05 TS19.2 (1) Power 80 Fuel Use 484.22% Signature 19.2 Exp 25%
Fuel Capacity 5,000 Litres Range 0.7 billion km (12 hours at full power)
Tier 0 - Missile Launcher S1R33 (4) Missile Size 1 Rate of Fire 600
Tier 4 - Missile FC R1 MR11 S1 (1) Range 11.8m km Resolution 1
Tier 4 - AMM MR27 CTH38 (3) Speed: 57,600 km/s End: 1.4m Range: 4.9m km WH: 1 Size: 1 TH: 518 / 311 / 155
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes
Ignoring the higher tech fire control, engine, and missiles, this design uses a size 2 engine, size 1 fc, and a tiny engineering space and fuel storage. which leaves you 1.45HS to use for weapons.
Hope this helps,
BlackHawk
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Maybe the game needs low tech direct attack weapon (different than Laser etc that doesn't need anything but low in damage) like vulcan gun or others; and they need fighter hard point technology for fighters. Well, even in sea battle irl, fighters have dominant role. So this game should have more techs for fighters. But in this game, there are limited choice to design fighters. Especially at early stage of the game.
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That lack of fighters in the earlier game does not seem odd to me. I will try to explain.
There is an evolution to how we conduct naval combat based on our technology. You can see this in our shift from shore batteries, to surface combatants, to deck space for naval aviation, to the modern advent of stand off attacks with cruise missiles.
I think seeing the same style of evolution in Aurora based on technology is equally fascinating.
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The old 250 ton recommendation from 5.x no longer applies now that fighters can have multiple engines. Large 500 ton heavy fighters are valid, and probably the only way to go at the really early tech levels.
For people thinking 500 tons is way to heavy for a fighter (ddblackhawk) remember that the tonnage refers to a volumetric displacement. AKA: cu m. Thinking in volume, a fighter is anything less than 500 cu m. A 747 freight plane, by comparison, has about 750 cu m of internal cargo volume, so you could hypothetically park two or three 250 ton (cu m) fighters inside a 747 if you optimize linear dimensions.
Anyway, at Tech Level 1 I came up with:
3 HS 10cm C1 Laser (or any other 3HS beam weapon of choice)
2 HS 2x 5EP 100% Thermal Drives
1.1 HS single layer Duranium
1 HS Fighter Fire control, 2x range 0.5x speed
1 HS Engineering
0.8 HS Crew Quarters
0.5 HS Water Reactor
0.2 HS Small Fuel Storage
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Size: 480 Ton, 1041 km/s speed, 8 month deployment time, 3.8 b km range.
If you want to use this as an independent jump picket add a 0.2 HS active scanner.
If this is operating from a hanger dial the deployment time back and replace the engineering with an extra engine.
Best Improvement for 5k RP:
Small Engineering (2k RP): 0.5HS savings. Get this if you use Engineering.
Engine Power x1.25 (1k RP): +25% faster
High Density Duranium: (2.5k RP): 0.2HS savings for large fighters.
Alternatively, if you want missiles replace High Density Duranium with Missile Reduction 75% and 50% (3k RP)
Here's what I would built if I had just 5k RP of theoretical tech:
Crystal Rain Fighter 475 tons 12 crew 57.5 BP TCS 9.5 TH12 EM 0
1263 km/s Armor 1-5 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0
Main Life 21.13 years MSP 38 AFR 3% Max Repair 12 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 8 months
Magazine 21
6.25 EP 1x125(2) Power 6.25 Fuel Use 172.9%
Fuel Capacity 10,000 Litters Range 2.2 billion km
Size 3 Missile Launcher (50% reduction) (2) Rate of Fire 450
M-Fire-Con S1.2 FC18-R100 (1) Range 18.0m km Resolution 100
S3 LightShot (6) Speed 7,900 km/s Range 62.6m km WH:2 TH: 26/15/7
This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat, and maintenance purposes
Personally, I don't think Size-1 missiles are practical at a 0-RP start, so I used size 3, but could have used a single reduced size 5 if I wanted the Crystal to fire full size WH-4 ASMs. The Crystal would of course need to operating alongside a designated scout's active scanner.
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a tiny engineering space
I don't think engineering spaces are necessary. The fighter is going to be out of its hangar for 1-2 days max, fire its missiles, and re-dock. It's not going to be having breakdowns and making field repairs.
By the way, if you set your intended deployment time to 0.1 months (3 days) it will cut down the crew requirements dramatically, usually to just one crewman. That also saves you space. And remember to remove the bridge, fuel storage, and engineering spaces that are there by default.
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Can anyone post a small sized early-game laser/railgun fighter? I am thinking of using them to patrol and defend homeworld while using the shipyards for economy boost but I am not sure if it's viable/possible as you all keep talking about missile fighters.
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Can anyone post a small sized early-game laser/railgun fighter? I am thinking of using them to patrol and defend homeworld while using the shipyards for economy boost but I am not sure if it's viable/possible as you all keep talking about missile fighters.
Well. . .
Atlas class Fighter 500 tons 10 Crew 34 BP TCS 10 TH 15 EM 0
1500 km/s Armour 1-5 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 1 PPV 3
Maint Life 36.64 Years MSP 42 AFR 2% IFR 0% 1YR 0 5YR 1 Max Repair 7.5 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.5 months Spare Berths 2
15 EP Nuclear Thermal Engine (1) Power 15 Fuel Use 97% Signature 15 Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 10 000 Litres Range 3.7 billion km (28 days at full power)
10cm Railgun V1/C1 (1x4) Range 10 000km TS: 1500 km/s Power 3-1 RM 1 ROF 15 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S01 10-1250 (FTR) (1) Max Range: 20 000 km TS: 5000 km/s 50 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Pressurised Water Reactor PB-1 (1) Total Power Output 1 Armour 0 Exp 5%
This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes
This is design you asked for. Early-game (0RP aside from modules), armed with railgun, though you can easily replace it with laser.
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Can anyone post a small sized early-game laser/railgun fighter? I am thinking of using them to patrol and defend homeworld while using the shipyards for economy boost but I am not sure if it's viable/possible as you all keep talking about missile fighters.
I would like to know how to do this, too. The problem is that most energy weapons cannot be reduced in size. Lasers and gauss guns are the exceptions, however, reduced-size laser tech takes a long time to research, and gauss guns lose accuracy if you decrease them in size. I would suggest trying gauss fighters early on, and laser fighters later.
Meson or microwave fighters would probably push the definition of "fighter", coming in close to 500T, but those weapons might be worth it because they ignore armor. Of course there are some energy weapons I've never tried, so I might be missing something. Looking forward to what others have found.
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This is design you asked for. Early-game (0RP aside from modules), armed with railgun, though you can easily replace it with laser.
Remove the engineering spaces and bridge if it has one. Cut deployment time to 0.1 month (aka 3 days). That might enable you to squeeze a second engine on.
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Remove the engineering spaces and bridge if it has one. Cut deployment time to 0. 1 month (aka 3 days). That might enable you to squeeze a second engine on.
I don't think he has carriers to perform maintenance to his fighters, and without carriers (and without eng spaces) they will break down horribly and explode. . .
Anyway, here's the version without engineering spaces:
Atlas Updated class Fighter 495 tons 3 Crew 25.5 BP TCS 9.9 TH 20 EM 0
2020 km/s Armour 1-5 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 0 PPV 3
Maint Life 0 Years MSP 0 AFR 99% IFR 1.4% 1YR 4 5YR 65 Max Repair 10 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.1 months Spare Berths 7
20 EP Nuclear Thermal Engine (1) Power 20 Fuel Use 96% Signature 20 Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 10 000 Litres Range 3.8 billion km (21 days at full power)
10cm Railgun V1/C1 (1x4) Range 10 000km TS: 2020 km/s Power 3-1 RM 1 ROF 15 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S01 10-1250 (FTR) (1) Max Range: 20 000 km TS: 5000 km/s 50 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Pressurised Water Reactor PB-1 (1) Total Power Output 1 Armour 0 Exp 5%
This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes
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I don't think he has carriers to perform maintenance to his fighters, and without carriers (and without eng spaces) they will break down horribly and explode. . .
Well, he could build some PDCs that are nothing but hangar bays, fuel tanks, and maintenance storage. That's a good idea even if you have carriers, because it lets you store new fighters while your carriers are away from Earth, and to keep old fighters in service after the carriers have acquired the latest and greatest.
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As to the earlier comment on how huge fighters are, compare them to a modern FAC. The first one I found (a Finnish missile FAC) has a 250t displacement and is armed with 8 SSM missiles and 4 SAM missiles. Of course, these missiles each weigh somewhat under 1 ton, and a Size 1 missile in Aurora is about 2 1/2 tons.
As for FACs, in Aurora an FAC is defined as a ship under 1000 tons. The closest analogue in real life is a corvette, defined in Wikipedia as generally over 500 tons and under 2000 tons.
As for design help, my only early tech fighter design was a 500 ton railgun fighter, just like the one two posts below mine.
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Have you ever seen these in battle? How do they perform?
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Have you ever seen these in battle? How do they perform?
Sorry, I haven't used them (don't use fighters that early) nor have early-game battle experience to tell about perfomance.
Only things I can say is they must work in packs like any other fighters. And big ones if possible.
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I recommend building a PDC that's basically just lots and lots of hangars with a giant sensor attached to it (air traffic control!) Then you can fill it with a lot of 500t gauss fighters. The only problem I've found with this plan is that, because it's a PDC, it does not satisfy colony protection requirements for some strange reason. If I remember correctly, that is.
Gauss fighter design is really simple. Strap the smallest gauss cannons and engines to the smallest fuel tank you possibly can. Fiddle until you're satisfied with the figures. Don't use turrets.
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Hi my name is Jon, an this is the start of my open ended campaign. I was fascinated with the idea of star wars and the jedi jump drive sled attachment. So I wanted to RP this one with that theme in mind.
Nimbus - Recon class Geosurvey Ship 500 tons 15 Crew 131. 5 BP TCS 10 TH 10 EM 0
1000 km/s Armour 1-5 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/1 Damage Control Rating 0 PPV 0
Maint Life 9. 32 Years MSP 82 AFR 4% IFR 0. 1% 1YR 2 5YR 26 Max Repair 100 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 23 months Spare Berths 6
10 EP Military Thermal Engine (1) Power 10 Fuel Use 98% Signature 10 Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 10,000 Litres Range 3. 7 billion km (42 days at full power)
Geological Survey Sensors (1) 1 Survey Points Per Hour
This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes
Starting a new game, Created this lil sucker the Nimbus, with a special attachment sled. Mind you the Nimbus has a Bridge of its own.
Meet the Aeon Harness. Its selling catch phrase was, "It may not get you there quickly but it will get you there. " Holds true, with its 326 billion range, it can literally sling any fighter sized ship within anything in the solar system, no risk of fuel, enough fuel to refuel from a billion times over, to match the Nimbus's ample reserves. It serves as a Repair Galley, a Tanker, and there are even talks of slapping on some Magazines and cargo loaders to serve as a collier! All loaded in a slightly chubby corvette frame! Brilliant!! Both of the vessels were designed with efficiency and sustainability in a very wild frontier of unknown certainties and untold riches!
Aeon - Harness class Tug 4,150 tons 52 Crew 378. 625 BP TCS 83 TH 62 EM 0
746 km/s Armour 1-23 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 5 PPV 0
Maint Life 19. 83 Years MSP 285 AFR 27% IFR 0. 4% 1YR 1 5YR 21 Max Repair 15. 625 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 300 months Flight Crew Berths 60
Hangar Deck Capacity 500 tons
62. 5 EP Commercial Explorer Thermal Engine (1) Power 62. 5 Fuel Use 13. 26% Signature 62. 5 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 1,000,000 Litres Range 326. 7 billion km (5068 days at full power)
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
So what you guy's think? Will they make it once there built in this harsh harsh world!?
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The Nimbus doesn't need a bridge, that is just taking up space.
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It has a bridge so that it can act seperately of its host ship, I think, either way I had spare room to fill the 500 tonnage gap. In terms of capacity it makes no difference if a ship is 250*2 to 500 bay ratio or less because. with tech limitations I cant reach a 150*3 to 500 bay ratio to warrent shaving off tonage for the sack of. Much better to boost tuning the gears to meet tonnage limits. We as a race imagine our space tech to field nimble scout carriers an vast swarms of high tech missile fighters supplanted by legions of inexpensive sleds.
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Both the tug and the fighter are very very slow. My first generation ships are a minimum of 2,500 km/s and that is slow. Fighters are at least 8,000 km/s at first generation for me.
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Yea im sure these silly humans will get it that speed is the key, but considering their current stubberness towards regarding the existence of other lifeforms, they see no necessity in being hasty towards the "angels, demons, and alien" mumbo jumbo of you wing nuts. So till then they will focus on profits, in regards to long term expansion at relativistic prices, in regards to small scale frames. As any business man will tell you, build it compact, build it to last, an build a lot of them. I imagine once we really get our claws into the home system extensive experimentation in breaking the current speed barrier will commence!
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Heres a fun little design for a Battlestar Galactica Theme RP.
Its only job is to pop in and out ahead of the fleet.
Its not fast, an Its cram packed with advanced sensor systems for multiple layers of detection.
It has good range, jump capable, sensor scanning package, extended supplies, all in a FAC hull.
Raptor - Experimental Jump class Fighter 1,000 tons 39 Crew 227 BP TCS 20 TH 50 EM 0
2500 km/s JR 1-50 Armour 1-8 Shields 0-0 Sensors 11/11/0/0 Damage Control Rating 2 PPV 0
Maint Life 28.65 Years MSP 284 AFR 4% IFR 0.1% 1YR 1 5YR 10 Max Repair 56 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months Spare Berths 0
J1000(1-50) Military Jump Drive Max Ship Size 1000 tons Distance 50k km Squadron Size 1
50 EP Military Thermal Engine (1) Power 50 Fuel Use 474.34% Signature 50 Exp 25%
Fuel Capacity 150,000 Litres Range 5.7 billion km (26 days at full power)
Aegis Active Sensor MR6-R1 (1) GPS 56 Range 6.2m km MCR 671k km Resolution 1
Anti-Fighter 200/610/0 (1) GPS 12 Range 610k km Resolution 4
Anti-Support Sensor 2k/5.8m/1 (1) GPS 336 Range 5.8m km Resolution 40
Thermal Sensor TH1-11 (40%) (1) Sensitivity 11 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 11m km
EM Detection Sensor EM1-11 (40%) (1) Sensitivity 11 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 11m km
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
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how are you getting 2k-8k on a out the box thermal drive on a 250-500 frame? what weapons you mounting?
This is the most I can squeeze out with engine x research bonus on thermals on a 1k frame.
Invested alot of time into missile design tech though can see vast improvements in tracking/speed/range.
Lasher - Frame class Fighter 1,000 tons 5 Crew 245.7 BP TCS 20 TH 100 EM 0
5000 km/s Armour 1-8 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 0 PPV 4.8
Maint Life 2.83 Years MSP 38 AFR 32% IFR 0.4% 1YR 7 5YR 104 Max Repair 98 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.1 months Spare Berths 5
Magazine 32
50 EP Military Thermal Engine (2) Power 50 Fuel Use 474.34% Signature 50 Exp 25%
Fuel Capacity 5,000 Litres Range 0.2 billion km (10 hours at full power)
Size 4 Gunboat Pod (8) Missile Size 4 Hangar Reload 30 minutes MF Reload 5 hours
Gunboat Missile Control FC41-R5 (40%) (1) Range 41.3m km Resolution 5
Gunboat ASM Suite (1) Range 4.1m km Resolution 5
2/1-ASM Flicker v12.15 (16) Speed: 12,500 km/s End: 8.6m Range: 6.4m km WH: 1 Size: 2 TH: 62/37/18
Aegis Active Sensor MR6-R1 (1) GPS 56 Range 6.2m km MCR 671k km Resolution 1
Fighter Search Sensor 190/0 (1) GPS 3 Range 190k km MCR 21k km Resolution 1
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
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Out the box very low-rp laser fighter within 500 frame.
cant get into a 250..
Lasher - Pulse class Fighter 450 tons 3 Crew 29 BP TCS 9 TH 10 EM 0
1111 km/s Armour 1-5 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 0 PPV 3
Maint Life 4.28 Years MSP 4 AFR 16% IFR 0.2% 1YR 0 5YR 5 Max Repair 5 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.1 months Spare Berths 7
5/1 Thermal Fighter Engine (2) Power 5 Fuel Use 99% Signature 5 Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 5,000 Litres Range 2.0 billion km (21 days at full power)
3/30/10cm IR Pulse (1) Range 30,000km TS: 4000 km/s Power 3-1 RM 1 ROF 15 3 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S02 20-1250 (FTR) (1) Max Range: 40,000 km TS: 5000 km/s 75 50 25 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Pressurised Water Reactor PB-1 (1) Total Power Output 1 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fighter Search Sensor 190/0 (1) GPS 3 Range 190k km MCR 21k km Resolution 1
This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes
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Maybe the game needs low tech direct attack weapon (different than Laser etc that doesn't need anything but low in damage) like vulcan gun or others; and they need fighter hard point technology for fighters. Well, even in sea battle irl, fighters have dominant role. So this game should have more techs for fighters. But in this game, there are limited choice to design fighters. Especially at early stage of the game.
Think of this from an rp perspective
Playing from conventional start, you're literally starting in the age of pressurized metal cans hurtling through space, with no artificial gravity or anything. It's hard enough to build a combat ship, let alone a zippy little maneuverable hellbat with guns that doesn't fall apart when it makes a sharp turn.
later, when you've hammered out the kinks to building spacecraft, you're still relying on gargantuan fuel, life support, and power systems, stuff a fighter can't haul around. To build a REALLY viable 'starfighter' you need years and years of technology. I play a setting where fightercraft are the dominant weapon, but it took a LONG time to get there.
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I notice you have lower resolution sensors with shorter range than your resolution 1 sensor, they're useless except for redundancy, you could save the space or make your anti missile sensor bigger.
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Great points, but to counter with the RP currently in play, well gaze at our current tech, the space shuttle which is 0.0825 tons unloaded, but at launch jumps to a whopping 2200 tons. I don't imagine mankinds first historical move is going to be building a 8k ton space monster because the necessary support tech would be ridiculously massive as to be impossible. By human engineering standards that would be the 10th wonder of the world in a space based medium. No humanities first move would be towards building smaller scale but significantly larger frames then the space shuttle, for the sole reason that the space game is not like earth based naval actions, at sea if your ship goes you have a chance of living because your still within your atmosphere, in space no such luck. I imagine mankind progressively building up, in the nuclear era (safety concerns aside), mastering the tuning/boosting process along the way, long before building into the uncertainty of Ion Drives.
I'm not sure if this game works like this or not but each era of drive tech should require their own seperate drive enhancement research tiers. Ie knowing how to boost a thermal drive 250% is not the same as knowing how to boost an Ion Drive, let alone these magneto drives I keep seeing. The 250% drive enhancement research shouldn't carry over if the drive is using differing energy principles, chemical, nuclear, Ion, magnetic. Human trends tend to rest in using a fuel source for extended periods of time, despite the awareness of alternative fuel sources, due to the cost of changing the dominant medium that all era tech is reliant upon, for various reasons.
For instance, magnetic field principles applied to a rocket frame would differ. A finely tuned magnetic drive emits a field around the object, freeing the object from external gravitational pull, friction. I imagine that gain impulse it inverts the magnetic field on itself. Ie the push field is warped towards the exterior space surrounding itself at a certain angle. then a matching magnetic push field is emitted from the hull. Using directional controls the field can be manipulated to push at certain angle. I image it had horrible research catastrophes when the field's directional control failed and a push vs push happened across the entire ships hull, literally crushing itself.
The point being, a magnetic missile would be efficiently designed as a saucer. the drive in the center to provide equal field distribution for movement, the area surrounding packed with explosives. Its payload would be monstrous compared to a traditionally missile design.
Though on reflection I could see how chemical/nuclear/ion would still use the same tech frames as their all just improvements in directed chemical/particle ejection. You point the engine this way, an the warhead this way.
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Both the tug and the fighter are very very slow. My first generation ships are a minimum of 2,500 km/s and that is slow. Fighters are at least 8,000 km/s at first generation for me.
I call nonsense on those numbers. Getting 2500 km/s is almost impossible on a Nuclear Thermal engine. 8000 km/s for fighter as well.
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That can't be right, I just started a game with 1000 RP and nuclear 5kthermal engines, my pre researched colony ships were using commercial engines at just over 2000 km/s. I imagine a design using more engines and with double power might at least approach 4k
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I call nonsense on those numbers. Getting 2500 km/s is almost impossible on a Nuclear Thermal engine. 8000 km/s for fighter as well.
Note he said first generation not nuclear thermal. It's quite common for players to start with nuclear pulse or even ion engines. In that case the the numbers are quite reasonable.
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It has a bridge so that it can act seperately of its host ship, I think, either way I had spare room to fill the 500 tonnage gap. In terms of capacity it makes no difference if a ship is 250*2 to 500 bay ratio or less because. with tech limitations I cant reach a 150*3 to 500 bay ratio to warrent shaving off tonage for the sack of. Much better to boost tuning the gears to meet tonnage limits. We as a race imagine our space tech to field nimble scout carriers an vast swarms of high tech missile fighters supplanted by legions of inexpensive sleds.
Fighters (500 tons and under) don't need a bridge.
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Its not really a fighter, its a geo survey ship so it has to have autonomous capabilities.
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Note he said first generation not nuclear thermal. It's quite common for players to start with nuclear pulse or even ion engines. In that case the the numbers are quite reasonable.
Ah, my bad. He was refering to a NT ship so I thought he meant it like that. Didn't realize he could mean something else :)
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And your absolutely correct 5k is bogus out of the box, nuclear thermal engines, I had to use sm mode to research engine power improvements to about 20k rp before I could fit even a 5km/s engine on a 1k frame with thermal engines. No chance at a 250 fighter hitting 2.5k from the gate.
Out the box smallest 250 fighter I could fit together, biggest engines with enough missiles to be worth being cannon fodder.
Mind you its navalized, it requires a carrier for its maximum 4m range.
Lasher - Navalized Gunboat class Fighter 245 tons 2 Crew 30.7 BP TCS 4.9 TH 10 EM 0
2040 km/s Armour 1-3 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 0 PPV 1.8
Maint Life 0 Years MSP 0 AFR 49% IFR 0.7% 1YR 2 5YR 27 Max Repair 6 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months Spare Berths 1
Magazine 12
5/1 Thermal Fighter Engine (2) Power 5 Fuel Use 99% Signature 5 Exp 10%
Size 4 Gunboat Pod (3) Missile Size 4 Hangar Reload 30 minutes MF Reload 5 hours
Gunboat ASM Suite (1) Range 4.1m km Resolution 5
1/1 ASM Torpedo v1 (12) Speed: 5,000 km/s End: 14.8m Range: 4.4m km WH: 1 Size: 1 TH: 25/15/7
Anti-Fighter 200/610/0 (1) GPS 12 Range 610k km Resolution 4
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes
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Its not really a fighter, its a geo survey ship so it has to have autonomous capabilities.
In Aurora, any ship 500 tons or under is classed as a fighter. Any ship 500-1000 tons is classed a FAC/Gunboat. Any ship greater than 1000 tons is whatever you want to call it.
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It's really dependent on how you define "out of the box". Assuming you start with the initial population of 500m, and you're in no way required too, that gives 120k RP. It's not difficult to have nuclear pulse engine tech and max engine power of x2. With this tech it's quite simple to have a 250t/5hs fighter with a speed of 3200kps.
Even restricting RP allocation to baseline nuclear thermal it doesn't require SM'ing anything, just a different RP allocation.
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Well in the game im RP running using aurora engine, a ship is anything with a bloody bridge on it, but if it makes ya feel better, Ill call it a geo survey FIGHTER from now on, either way it does the same job Intra system as some 8k behemoth.
0 Rp Start + RP up to box launcher's, RP for basic engine, rp for missile tracking, RP for launcher, rp for missile within 150 frame! I love this!! 150 means at 500 hangar a 2+1 increase in storage space takes place! Wooo kadeshi swarmers!
Tribal class Navalized Fighter 150 tons 1 Crew 18.9 BP TCS 3 TH 5 EM 0
1666 km/s Armour 1-2 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 0 PPV 0.6
Maint Life 0 Years MSP 0 AFR 30% IFR 0.4% 1YR 1 5YR 17 Max Repair 8 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.1 months Spare Berths 9
Magazine 4
Cyclon 5 v1.1.1 (1) Power 5 Fuel Use 99% Signature 5 Exp 10%
Gremlin 4 v0.06 (1) Missile Size 4 Hangar Reload 30 minutes MF Reload 5 hours
Sweeper .8 v1.2 (1) Range 1.4m km Resolution 1
4/1 ASM Ballista v4k.663m (1) Speed: 4,000 km/s End: 1.9d Range: 663.5m km WH: 1 Size: 4 TH: 14/8/4
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes
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Well in the game im RP running using aurora engine, a ship is anything with a bloody bridge on it, but if it makes ya feel better, Ill call it a geo survey FIGHTER from now on, either way it does the same job Intra system as some 8k behemoth.
Just saying you can call it what you wish, but Aurora will treat it as a fighter, meaning it is built via fighter factories and not shipyards. Call it a toaster if you wish :)
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haha i know its a bit of an advantage early game as my main shipyard arent used up on a retool.
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Great points, but to counter with the RP currently in play, well gaze at our current tech, the space shuttle which is 0.0825 tons unloaded, but at launch jumps to a whopping 2200 tons. I don't imagine mankinds first historical move is going to be building a 8k ton space monster because the necessary support tech would be ridiculously massive as to be impossible.
According to Wikipedia the space shuttle:
Can carry 24.4 tons into orbit.
Weights 78.0 tons empty
Has a total fully loaded system weight of 2000 tons (including boosters and tank)
Has a speed of 7.7 km/s
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That sounds about right,though I think the orbiter itself only weighs about 69 tons. I just want to jump in and point out that I had great trouble designing fighters that slow with conventional engine tech, so basically I said screw it, and made mine 100-200 km /s.
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Your right, apparently google converter doesnt like copy/paste, it reads the first digit of the whole number only, so it gave a sub tonnage number lol
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Hey I have a question, how do tankers work? do they require a hangar larger then the ship their meant to refuel or is it like hoses in space attached to lines for any ship size.
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Any ship that is at the same location as another ship can transfer fuel, or missiles instantly using the individual ship details screen, but if you set a design as a tanker then other ships will be able to refuel from it using the conditional orders ie "refuel from nearest tanker when fuel is at 50%" tankers also get the "dump 90% fuel at location " order.
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Ahhhh I thought it required a hanger the size of what you were refueling (in my case fighters) with larger ships needing only proxi. Thanks!
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Ahhhh I thought it required a hanger the size of what you were refueling (in my case fighters) with larger ships needing only proxi. Thanks!
Something you can do for fighters is also a refueling model that fly in the same wing (carrying only extra fuel instead of weapons/sensor/ammo), then you can use the "equalize fuel" button to distribute fuel in the group equally between the ships once the fighters start running low.
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That lack of fighters in the earlier game does not seem odd to me. I will try to explain.
There is an evolution to how we conduct naval combat based on our technology. You can see this in our shift from shore batteries, to surface combatants, to deck space for naval aviation, to the modern advent of stand off attacks with cruise missiles.
I think seeing the same style of evolution in Aurora based on technology is equally fascinating.
Your looking at it from the wrong direction in regards to new areas of exploration. Man when it went to the oceans did not start out with carriers, nor cruiser sized vessels. Quite the opposite man made canoes, and slowly but surely as engineering competence increased, the vessels progressively got larger and larger. Starting off with "fighter" size of 125-250tons is actually quite reasonable, considering that in comparison with todays tonnage for "space craft", ie orbiter weighs 178,000 lbs or 80 metric tons. This would make even these "fighters" advanced shuttles for a timeframe in the future of our current present.
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Something you can do for fighters is also a refueling model that fly in the same wing (carrying only extra fuel instead of weapons/sensor/ammo), then you can use the "equalize fuel" button to distribute fuel in the group equally between the ships once the fighters start running low.
This is genius!!! A fighter sized tanker, brilliant!