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Messages - froggiest1982

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C# Aurora / Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« on: March 21, 2018, 06:09:15 AM »
Hi @Steve Walmsley, sorry I do live in New Zealand so I have a different season calendar! My spring starts end of September...

Ah! Very good point. I would be disappointed if I wasn't well into a test campaign by your spring :)
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C# Aurora / Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« on: March 18, 2018, 01:17:59 PM »
I've moved on to coding missile combat. In this example, the French missile cruiser Clemenceau is launching against a US destroyer. The launch summary includes the range and the estimated chance to hit (although that can change while the missiles are in-flight).

The destroyer does not have any active sensors that can detect the missiles. However, there are four deep space tracking stations on the planet. With the new passive sensor model, they can detect the French missiles from launch.

First salvo arrives, scoring eight hits, two of which penetrate the armour. I've added the number of penetrating hits to the defender summary. BTW not sure if I mentioned this anywhere but in C# Aurora, you can have multiple windows open of each type. So in this case I have two event windows open - one for France and one for the United States - and both will update together. You could have two Class Design windows open to compare designs, etc..

Four more salvos arrive.

The sixth salvo is sufficient to destroy the ship.

I'll show some point defence examples when I finish the code in that area.
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C# Aurora / Re: Default Orders for Harvesters and Miners
« on: March 07, 2018, 02:59:54 AM »
Hi @Steve Walmsley, regarding the Move to Gas Giant with Sorium and also conditional order to drop off 90% fuel at the colony, there is any way to set which colony in Aurora C#? In VB6 version the Harvesters drop off the fuel on the nearest colony including mining and civilian, therefore I end up always waiting for the 90% alert and just move the fleet manually which is not critical but still will be an improvement to the QOL

Does the new "Harvester Transfer and Return" order that?


In C# Aurora, standing orders involving fuel load/unload at a colony, will only use colonies with a refuelling station or a spaceport, so you could use that to filter the potential destinations.
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C# Aurora / Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« on: March 06, 2018, 05:18:01 PM »
Another milestone. I've been trying to ensure that the complete game save is 100% accurate, so I don't encounter any major hidden bugs. That isn't so easy with almost two hundred tables, a lot of fields per table (172 for the Race table for example) and some tables with tens of thousands of rows.

However, recently I discovered this amazingly useful free utility (see link) that allows me to do a complete comparison on two SQLite databases, down to the contents of each field in record in each table. With that I have been able to squish a number of previously undetected bugs and finally get a 100% accurate save.

The level of confidence I now have in the save process is a major step forward to running the first test game.
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C# Aurora / Replacing Teams?
« on: February 11, 2018, 07:13:30 AM »
This is a repost from the main VB6 suggestions thread, which triggered an idea.

I could remove the concept of teams entirely and replace them with new ground force capabilities. Thinking out loud....

1) Espionage team replaced by a scout function for ground forces. Scout formations can land on alien worlds to learn about the alien population (size, industry, tech, ground forces). They are have (expensive) stealth capabilities boosted by the formation commander (stealth bonus replaces espionage). They can be hunted by hostile ground forces or have a chance of detection by any civilian population (much higher if not same species). Might even have sabotage capabilities. In fact, this could be the Aurora equivalent of Special Forces.

2) Geology team replaced by geological survey capability for ground forces and ground survey becomes a significantly larger task requiring more personnel - to prevent simply creating vast number of geo-survey formations. Geology bonus based on the formation commander

3) Xenology team replaced by Xenoarchaeology capability for ground forces. Surveying and deciphering alien ruins becomes a significantly larger task requiring more personnel. Xenology bonus based on the formation commander.

4) Diplomacy team replaced by small but expensive ship module that can only function when in the same system as an alien population. I also change NPR responses so that their reaction to alien ships in the system is based on ship size and reduced if the ship has a diplomatic function. Diplomacy skill is based on the ship commander.
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C# Aurora / Re: Cap Civilians?
« on: February 11, 2018, 06:48:05 AM »
In C# Aurora, you can disable the ability of civilians to build new ships.
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C# Aurora / Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« on: January 19, 2018, 05:09:52 AM »
The risk is that the complexity of porting the existing rule set to C# combined with the complexity of changing the rule set leads to a more complex overall task.   Trying to combine the two goes against most modern philosophies of good software engineering practices.  I personally think this has been demonstrated with the ground combat stuff:  Steve was chugging along through the various functionality sectors until he got to ground combat, at which point my perception is that the progress got bogged down.  Some data: the original "I am seriously considering removing PDCs" post was on Sept 17, 2017 (on page 70 out of 93 in this thread), so he's been on ground combat  for four calendar months and 25% of the posts in this thread, which is probably more time than it would have taken if he'd simply transcribed PDCs and ground combat.

A more telling example of the "change while transcribing" failure mode: the Pulsar 4x project seems to have fallen prey to this it.  My recollection/perception is that they started out wanting to do a straight port of Aurora to C#, but figured "why not improve the game mechanics along the way".  They seemed to have bogged down about halfway through; I haven't seem much activity from them at all for the last year or two. 

That being said:

1)  Steve is good at this stuff (writing Aurora); he's been doing it for many years.
2)  Ground combat IS an isolated system, so he can code it up and get out of it.  In general, Steve seems to be doing a really good job of doing minor and isolated tweaks to systems as he codes them up (e.g. the refueling changes), so that he's doing "transcription with cleanup" as he goes, rather than "write a whole new game".  In other words, I think he's mostly been striking the right balance.
3)  Steve's already written one game (VB6 Aurora) and gotten it to completion, which demonstrates the tenacity and ability to complete the job, so there's a good chance he'll complete C# Aurora too.
4)  (Most important) It's Steve's free time, so if he wants to spend it working out ground combat mechanics before getting a playable version of Aurora out then that's his prerogative.

So I suspect the ground combat stuff has probably slipped the schedule by a month or two, but if that's what Steve wants to do that's his choice.  Hopefully this is the only sector for which he's planning a major rewrite, and he can get back to straight transcription to get a working version out.  If not though, c'est la vie.


I think the Ground Combat changes will probably delay completion by 3-4 months, more due to deciding exactly how to implement them than the actual coding. The ground combat design is mainly done now and a decent chunk of the coding is done. I still need to code the interactions between ground units and naval units (including new movement orders) and the logistics. As mentioned above though, this is a relatively isolated area so doesn't impact the rest of the game too much. On the plus side, ground combat was a very basic area compared to the rest of the game and I think the changes will make it much more interesting and immersive (from an RP perspective as much as a mechanics perspective)

I'm taking a break from ground combat at the moment to code the New Game window, with the intention of starting some test games. There are still some significant areas missing, including combat, AI, default/conditional orders, about half the movement orders and many of the minor windows. However, almost all the construction phase code is done (research, terraforming, production, maintenance, etc.) and most of the common movement orders, so I hope to start the first of those test games in the next month or two and then code the rest while playing.

I am moving house in the next couple of weeks, so that will slow things down a little, but should be up and running again fairly quickly.

I am well past the point now where I think there is a question of whether C# Aurora will eventually be finished. This isn't similar to early abortive attempts at Newtonian Aurora and Aurora 2. I have invested almost two years into this project (from March 2016) so I am pretty determined to complete it :).  I can't say when yet but the prospect of getting a new campaign running is my main motivation.
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C# Aurora / Re: Colony Automation
« on: January 14, 2018, 07:28:38 PM »
What I want is a revamped economic system and a more involved civilian population and a bit more realism in planetary economic growth.

You as a player would still make all the hard choices but would not need to personally set up mineral runs or industrial ques,

Instead colonies industry would be civilian as they are in reality and have always been in history. The player who essentially are the state would concentrate in the state business.

You could subsidize colonies so civilians tend to develop them in a certain way. That would be industry in different forms.

You would then use contracts to build state property such as research facilities, academies, naval yards etc.. You should not be able to just hijack an entire planetary industry for military means. If you give out too many contract then civilian goods and morale should go down. If you put your faction at war status the civilian should be more willing to do contracts etc..

I don't see why civilian corporations could not do their own explorations and build their own colonies as well in the same manner they build mining complexes, that does not mean the player or state do the same or that you could restrict the civilian economy from doing it. But they would most likely do it much cheaper but you would not control where they build colonies.

What I propose will not take away choices, it would make the economy more interesting, add choice which would be less binary, it would be more dynamic and depending on more factors.

But that is just my opinion that a more involved civilian economy would be more fun and remove some tedious mechanics from players hands as you would easily automate the boring parts.
This really only caters to, again, a specific roleplay. What if I'm playing a hive mind? Or an incredibly autocratic society?

To expand, right now you can RP anything. If you want to say that corporations, for instance, play a major role in the defense of the empire (something I did in the one AAR I wrote up) then you can. The fact that you control them is unrelated to the RP aspect. It might be nice if there were some mechanism to allow your suggestion, but I don't think blanket forcing it on all empires is the right choice, because some people don't want to RP their empire that way. And once it's out of their control it can no longer be RP'd as something it isn't. I think that if we're going to add an expanded civilian sector it would need to be tied to something, perhaps government type or whatever and it could become really complicated, perhaps not worth the effort.

Frankly though, I think the large amount of control you have is the best place for the RP side. If you control things, you can make them behave how you want and thus roleplay them as anything you want.
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C# Aurora / Re: C# Aurora Changes Discussion
« on: January 07, 2018, 02:26:27 PM »
For what it's worth I entirely agree with Steve on this.

Planetary warfare is a completely different beast then galactic warfare.  In small thinking, it does not matter if you do have the best aircrafts in the world if you not able to take ports or structure on the ground with as effective troops.  This option will bring an actual different thinking level while planning invasions.  My guess is AI will use different formations and doctrines as well therefore just drop unit or bombard a planet will not guarantee your success like it was pretty much done with the old system where only a few units were available.  @Steve Walmsley sorry to bother you, but are you also thinking to introduce some sort of exhaustion to ground units? I've seen the terrain modifiers, but I believe a sort of exhaustion factor will simulate the logistic/supply penalty of long wars with the possibility of introducing an engineer or logistic division able to mitigate such effects adding an extra layer of strategy/planning.  Basically, these units will provide the required supplies to carry on daily operations.  The possibility of having these units "mandatory" (not only for invasions but pretty much used as maintenance supply works for warships) will probably make it easier to program rather than a separate mechanism which I guess will be hard for you as for anybody to set up.


There will be some form of logistic units. I've been holding off on exactly how they work because of issues around tracking supply point usage but it finally struck me how to do it. Each logistic unit (probably static base type) will use up a set amount of maintenance supply points (MSP) during creation. When combat takes place, each side will use up a certain amount of MSP (to be determined) during each combat phase, based on that type of units engaged.

Lets assume that each logistic unit includes 100 MSP. If combat consumes 230 MSP that would use up two logistic units with a 30% chance of a third unit being consumed. Over time, that will work out fine with no record-keeping needed. If no logistic units remain then combat will become far less effective (major penalty to hit, or perhaps no offensive fire at all). This will give an incentive to land a number of logistic units with the initial invasion, plus the potential for resupply runs against hostile defences.
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C# Aurora / Re: Custom game setups - tech
« on: December 23, 2017, 07:38:43 AM »
For C#, it would be relatively easy to setup an SM Tech Control Window where you could flag techs as available, ruin-only or not available.
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C# Aurora / Re: Diplomacy Overhaul?
« on: December 09, 2017, 11:52:39 AM »
I haven't started with diplomacy yet but I do intend for it to be more detailed. There will be a lot more clarity from AI players about which systems they consider to be their territory and which are neutral space. They may change their mind about which systems to claim. There will also be warning messages and the potential for negotiated settlements, rather than fighting to the death.
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C# Aurora / Re: Aurora C# Screenshots
« on: July 03, 2016, 09:03:51 AM »
A milestone achieved !

Aurora C# just launched the first new ship from a shipyard as part of the normal construction phase. The ship can't move, shoot anything or use sensors but it does exist (at least until I close the program because saving isn't enabled yet) :)

Even so, this means everything that goes into ship construction in terms of production is now working. All the various modifiers (such as commanders, racial wealth, unrest, radiation, available workers, etc), the resources requirements plus fuel, supplies, ordnance are all accounted for, the crew from the available pool, putting into the correct fleet, changing speeds, etc.. Plus a portion of the construction phase is working; in fact, shipyard tasks (construction, repair, refit and scrapping), shipyard upgrades, industrial production and pop growth are all working properly now.

Getting there slowly but steadily :)
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Mechanics / Re: Change Log for v7.2 Discussion
« on: April 09, 2016, 07:36:45 AM »
I agree that Diplomacy needs a major overhaul and it should be a lot easier to do in the C# version. The concept of battles over certain systems rather than all-out war should be possible.
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