Author Topic: Weapons: decisions and usefulness  (Read 5461 times)

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Offline Ashery

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Re: Weapons: decisions and usefulness
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2011, 02:41:24 PM »
50 tons in 110 tons fighter is 50% engines. 

Fighter engines have less thrust to mass ratio than missiles. 
Ergo, fighters are never going to be as fast as missiles. 

FYI, my standard ASM design is WH4 regardless of tech.  Which then results in an ever increasing engine portion, useful for broaching PD.  By mid-game, ASMs are faster than AMMs, and by end-game, even AMM hit rates are <15%. 

Hell, with that design, *no* defense will be sufficient. Even with the unrealistic ideal situation (No missiles blowing up midway due to their target blowing up), I'm not sure if AMMs would be considered effective when you'd have to fire at least six size one missiles to take down a single size four (Assuming that's what your missiles are). Factor in the large amount of waste that comes with such poor hit rates and you're in even worse shape.

One's best defense in that situation might be to actually cut down the amount of PD/etc and install a bunch of shield modules instead. That 25HS turret + BFC combo might take down a handful of missiles and prevent twenty damage, but replacing those with just theta shields will add 100 shield strength and result in you just laughing off the extra damage.
 

Offline Thiosk

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Re: Weapons: decisions and usefulness
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2011, 06:21:26 PM »
Notably, they are capable of building much larger vessels than your existing docks--- there is no correlation between your shipyards and theirs.

They're churning out 600kton megafreighters while the largest i can produce are merely 130k.
 

Offline scoopdjm (OP)

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Re: Weapons: decisions and usefulness
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2011, 07:05:00 PM »
YAY, progress.

right movin' on. I now have a sufficient military up (set up abunch of ground assault and defense stuff, have two main battlegroups, and am in the process of setting up production for carriers) my question is-well I have a few actually:

1. what is a good active-sensor setup?
2. what should I be using to defend any 'non-sol based' colonies?
3. can I store fighters in PDCs?
 

Offline metalax

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Re: Weapons: decisions and usefulness
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2011, 09:36:35 PM »
YAY, progress.

right movin' on. I now have a sufficient military up (set up abunch of ground assault and defense stuff, have two main battlegroups, and am in the process of setting up production for carriers) my question is-well I have a few actually:

1. what is a good active-sensor setup?

You will probably want a long range resolution 1 sensor for spotting missiles either on the carrier or on a dedicated sensor ship, as well as higher resolution sensors for spotting the enemy ships from range.

On fighters themselves I tend to go with no sensors on the armed fighters and have some dedicated sensor fighters accompany them. Exact ratio of sensor fighters to armed fighters depends on their general survivability, I'll start off with 1 to 9 and adjust as needed.

2. what should I be using to defend any 'non-sol based' colonies?

Depends on what kind of ships you are bulding. You could prefab some PDC's and assemble them on the new colonies, or ship/build maintainance facilities so that you can station some ships there as defence. How much defence to place there depends on your situation and what you can afford to have semi-permenantly stationed there. Missile armed ships/pdc's tend to do well for defence as you can have them sitting on a large stockpile of missiles.

3. can I store fighters in PDCs?
Yes. They act the same way as carriers.
 

Offline Yonder

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Re: Weapons: decisions and usefulness
« Reply #34 on: October 24, 2011, 11:19:03 AM »
1. what is a good active-sensor setup?
The way I generally do this is to make a "Watchship" class of ship that takes care of all of my sensor needs. It has:
Several layers of armor in the early game, as this will be the ship that gets targeted more than anything else. In the mid-game I'll add some shielding to this.
Enough engines to keep up with the rest of the fleet.
Large passive sensors, of each type. There are a few things I use baselines for this. Can I spot my enemies' engines from far outside of engagement range? Can I sense their Active Sensors before their Active Sensors would sense me. Would I be able to sense an inhabited planet with a thermal/EM signature of a small colony from far outside of either of our weapon ranges? Those are all of my goals, but depending on tech level I may not be able to attain all of those goals. When push comes to shove the Active Sensor capabilities of the Watchship are more important, each passive sensor probably shouldn't take up more than 10-15% of the ship's volume.
Now we get to the Active sensors, the easiest one to plan is the AM sensor. I give it a range of 150% that of my AMM missiles and ship Fire Control. That way the AM ships can stay ahead of the rest of the fleet by a small margin. In the very likely event that all of those missiles are heading for the sensor ship that will give the defenders another few salvos at the missiles as they fly past.
Everything else should be the ship active sensor, and it should have capabilities that mesh with those of your missiles and FCs.
Quote
2. what should I be using to defend any 'non-sol based' colonies?
There are many, many different ways to do this. As you mentioned building a carrier it seems like you are going to have fighters. A few Hangar PDCs stocked with Fighters/Gunboats are a great way to put some defenses on the front line, especially for smaller colonies. Once the colony is large enough to support some Maintenance facilities you can switch over to defensive Frigates, or tug in some orbital stations.

Of course those ideas are more of a self-supportive way of looking at the colonies. Another perfectly valid way of looking at it (especially from a roleplaying aspect of a government skeptical of the Colonies' need for having control and the ability to support firepower). Is to just make small fleets of ships that go to the colony systems for 3-4 year tours before returning to Earth for refitting.
 

Offline scoopdjm (OP)

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Re: Weapons: decisions and usefulness
« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2011, 07:27:34 PM »
OK new question: do plasma carronades need beam fire controls?
 

Offline Erik L

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Re: Weapons: decisions and usefulness
« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2011, 07:51:00 PM »
OK new question: do plasma carronades need beam fire controls?

Anything not a missile or CIWS needs beam fire controls. :)

Offline scoopdjm (OP)

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Re: Weapons: decisions and usefulness
« Reply #37 on: October 25, 2011, 07:55:51 PM »
right, thanks *sigh* gotta redesign som bombers :(

also will civilians build shps that aren't colony ships/freighters?

will they build terraformers/miners/jump-gate constructors/etc.?
 

Offline metalax

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Re: Weapons: decisions and usefulness
« Reply #38 on: October 25, 2011, 08:13:20 PM »
Civilians will only build any commercial design that contains cargo holds, cryo storage or luxury passenger space.
 

Offline Erik L

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Re: Weapons: decisions and usefulness
« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2011, 08:44:33 PM »
Civilians will only build any commercial design that contains cargo holds, cryo storage or luxury passenger space.

According to this thread, http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php/topic,1130.0.html that is not quite correct. Though Steve might have changed it since then.

Offline Girlinhat

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Re: Weapons: decisions and usefulness
« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2011, 12:42:10 AM »
Has anyone seen a civilian shipping line produce a troop transport?
 

Offline Thiosk

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Re: Weapons: decisions and usefulness
« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2011, 05:34:58 AM »
Has anyone seen a civilian shipping line produce a troop transport?

You can get them to produce strange designs if you put cargo holds on the ships-- but they only function as freighters.  They wouldn't actually transport troops.  I put a cargo hold in a tanker... to carry minerals... and industry produced 17 single-cargo-hold tankers before I noticed the issue.
 

Offline Charlie Beeler

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Re: Weapons: decisions and usefulness
« Reply #42 on: October 26, 2011, 06:35:49 AM »
Anything not a missile or CIWS needs beam fire controls. :)
With one notable exception...plasma torpedoes.  They cycle in a similar fashion to beam weapons but require a missile fire control.  Yes they are normally restricted to Invaders, but sufficient salvage will allow players to design and build them as well.
Amateurs study tactics, Professionals study logistics - paraphrase attributed to Gen Omar Bradley