Civilian interstellar trade requirements?

[Ulzgoroth (OP)]

Do civilian ships only travel through stabilized jump points?

My Alpha Centauri colony was readily accessible to my fleet cargo and colony ships by way of a commercial-drive jump ship posted at the point, but the shipping lines didn't seem to be interested.

[SpikeTheHobbitMage]

Civilians are supposed to use jump tenders, but they can also be very large.  150k tons is not unusual.  Civ colonizers will also ignore any body that doesn't already have population and/or infrastructure.  Putting in an order to move 100 infrastructure from an existing colony is a good way to seed things.

[Ulzgoroth (OP)]

Yeah, I did have a problem with my initial jump tender generation being too small for the civilian freighters.

But I built and deployed a larger series that should have allowed them to get through, and none of them went.  I'd had an infrastructure transfer order in place long since, and a small population delivered by my government transport ships. . .

[SpikeTheHobbitMage]

Yeah, I did have a problem with my initial jump tender generation being too small for the civilian freighters.

But I built and deployed a larger series that should have allowed them to get through, and none of them went.  I'd had an infrastructure transfer order in place long since, and a small population delivered by my government transport ships. . .

Been there, done that.

That sounds like maybe a bug.  If you stabilize both sides of the JP will they use it?  If so, then something is up with the tender.  If not then it is something else.  Banned bodies, banned systems, recent combat with NPRs/spoilers, and such.

[Jarhead0331]

I've only been successful in getting civilians to populate new systems by stabilizing the jump points. Until I did so, there was no civilian commerce outside of Sol, my starting system, and they did not produce vessels with jump drives independently. Once the JPs were stabilized though, the flood gates opened.

[Father Tim]

Do civilian ships only travel through stabilized jump points?

Yes.

Government-owned ships will happily plot courses through your own jumpships (or stations), because Aurora assumes if you issued the orders you're not going to move the jumpship away, but shipping lines have no such faith in you and will only use stabilized wormholes or their own jumpships (the design & building of which is not in v1.9.5).

My Alpha Centauri colony was readily accessible to my fleet cargo and colony ships by way of a commercial-drive jump ship posted at the point, but the shipping lines didn't seem to be interested.

Correct.  For now, it's stabilized wormhole or nothing.  The 'cost' of doing business is leaving a massive, unremovable invasion superhighway through your empire.

[Ulzgoroth (OP)]

Yeah, I did have a problem with my initial jump tender generation being too small for the civilian freighters. 

But I built and deployed a larger series that should have allowed them to get through, and none of them went.   I'd had an infrastructure transfer order in place long since, and a small population delivered by my government transport ships.  .  .

Been there, done that.

That sounds like maybe a bug.   If you stabilize both sides of the JP will they use it?  If so, then something is up with the tender.   If not then it is something else.   Banned bodies, banned systems, recent combat with NPRs/spoilers, and such.

Well, I never actually got the jump-point stabilizer built, so I don't know for sure.  I assume that would work.

There were no banned bodies, banned systems, or combats anywhere in my empire.  It was a very quiet game so far.  (And I'm probably not going to play it further in favor of waiting for 1. 10. )

[SpikeTheHobbitMage]

Do civilian ships only travel through stabilized jump points?

Yes.

Government-owned ships will happily plot courses through your own jumpships (or stations), because Aurora assumes if you issued the orders you're not going to move the jumpship away, but shipping lines have no such faith in you and will only use stabilized wormholes or their own jumpships (the design & building of which is not in v1.9.5).

My Alpha Centauri colony was readily accessible to my fleet cargo and colony ships by way of a commercial-drive jump ship posted at the point, but the shipping lines didn't seem to be interested.

Correct.  For now, it's stabilized wormhole or nothing.  The 'cost' of doing business is leaving a massive, unremovable invasion superhighway through your empire.

I can't find any mention of such a change and I was certain that civilians used jump tenders in VB.

[Father Tim]

I can't find any mention of such a change and I was certain that civilians used jump tenders in VB.

That's because it's not a change; it was the same way in VB Aurora.  Shipping lines only used jump gates or their own jump-capable ships.  There was a brief period where they would also build jump gate construction ships and build their own jump gates, but that only lasted a version or two.

[consiefe]

I was only successful on this when I tried and added my own JT to the civilian colony fleet. They used it just fine back and forth. But after I took it back they went back to restricting their ops only to the systems with SJPs. They don't build their JTs ever.

This laziness will get us killed.

Edit: But jokes aside, I think this is a fair sacrifice if you want to use civs to do your shipments. Otherwise you would be the one who needs to build a full fledged logistics fleet and that really adds up onto the costs

[SpikeTheHobbitMage]

I can't find any mention of such a change and I was certain that civilians used jump tenders in VB.

That's because it's not a change; it was the same way in VB Aurora.  Shipping lines only used jump gates or their own jump-capable ships.  There was a brief period where they would also build jump gate construction ships and build their own jump gates, but that only lasted a version or two.

I loaded up VB and tested it out and you are correct.  All the time, effort, and minerals that went into my gate builder/super-tender combos....  On the up side, civvies will happily strand themselves if you only build a gate on one side, which is probably what made me think it was working.

I was only successful on this when I tried and added my own JT to the civilian colony fleet. They used it just fine back and forth. But after I took it back they went back to restricting their ops only to the systems with SJPs. They don't build their JTs ever.

This laziness will get us killed.

Edit: But jokes aside, I think this is a fair sacrifice if you want to use civs to do your shipments. Otherwise you would be the one who needs to build a full fledged logistics fleet and that really adds up onto the costs

That is an interesting workaround.

[skoormit]

I was only successful on this when I tried and added my own JT to the civilian colony fleet. They used it just fine back and forth.

That...is awesome. I am totally going to do that now.

Edit: But jokes aside, I think this is a fair sacrifice if you want to use civs to do your shipments. Otherwise you would be the one who needs to build a full fledged logistics fleet and that really adds up onto the costs

I don't rely on civs for logistics. They are too slow to build capacity, and too slow to respond to contracts.
I rely on civs for the tax income, and only issue contracts for occasional jobs to save me some micromanagement.

It is very expensive to build my own logistics fleet, yes, but when I need something moved, it gets moved fast.

[consiefe]

I don't rely on civs for logistics. They are too slow to build capacity, and too slow to respond to contracts.
I rely on civs for the tax income, and only issue contracts for occasional jobs to save me some micromanagement.

It is very expensive to build my own logistics fleet, yes, but when I need something moved, it gets moved fast.

I really rely on them and work them like a workhorse. I probably build like four frighters and if there is a strictly civilan restricted colony like habitats, I use them. I use them for supply and mineral transport mostly. But if there are things that I want to be moved, empire contracts civs left and right. No easy money for corporates.

In old VB6 we could buy fuel from them, do you know it exist?

[Second Foundationer]

In old VB6 we could buy fuel from them, do you know it exist?

The fuel transfer basically works. I have tested it only with a refuelling system equipped tanker so far. It refuels from civilian harvesters. The civ designs seem to include a refuelling system, too, so I assume it's possible to directly refuel non-tankers as well.

What I don't see is a "Purchase of Civilian Fuel" (or whatever it was) expense in the Wealth tab. But it may have been subsumed into another expense. (I'm unable to calculate if any wealth has been deduced, too much else going on.) Or it may be a missing feature. - Observation in a controlled setting/small empire would help to clarify.

[Father Tim]

In old VB6 we could buy fuel from them, do you know it exist?

You need to tick the "Civilian Fuel Harvesters" box on the game options window; after that, refuelling from a civilian harvester (which, of course, will be located at a gas giant with sorium) will fill your ship's tanks and cost your empire some wealth.