Diplomacy workaround

[nakorkren (OP)]

In my current game, I have a fairly distant neighbor that I'm on good terms with (mutual trade access, I'm sharing my geo data to help speed up improving relationship). They are one of the few AIs I've run into that are actually reasonably decent at spreading out, i.e. they have their homeworld plus three other systems with non-trivial colonies or mining operations. There was one system of buffer (Lakara on the attached map) between their closest claimed system (Eradain) and my closest claimed system (Hawat). Hawat is important to me, as there are two big, mineral-rich and near-habitable worlds there which I am colonizing. Lakara is also important, as it has a gas-giant with 58M Sorium at accessibility 1.0(!) However, I do have a similarly large deposit down in Rigel two systems below Hawat, at 0.8 accessibility, that I have a very large fuel harvesting operation at.

The issue is that my friendly neighbors are now politely suggesting that I vacate Lakara in the near future, as they are now claiming the system. They want it for the same reason I do, i.e. the Sorium, and they just got some Sorium harvesters set up there, next to mine.

Realistically, there's no reason to fight over this. We can both use this deposit without any risk of it running out in the next 100 years. The only reason to fight over it would be to deny it's use to the other, and since we're friendly, that's silly. I'd like to continue making this empire into an ally, as there are three other more hostile empires in other corners of the map I need to deal with.

Given the limitations of the diplomacy system in Aurora, how can I best keep this empire happy? I don't really want to deny them access to the Sorium, which I think is what would happen if I issued my own claim of the system and they accepted. I would be ok with ceding the system to them (given I have lots of fuel in Rigel), IF I were positive that they wouldn't later try to claim Hawat (I don't know how expansionist they are, but their xenophobia seems fairly low since I've been able to get them to like me reasonably quickly). Should I move out of Lakara, but pre-emptively claim Hawat? Would that prevent their trade ships from visiting Hawat if I claim it and they accept the claim?

Any thoughts on how to solve this mechanically in Aurora?

[Rich.h]

I would RP this one out, as such it heavily depends on what your empire is like. For my current game my empire would try the peaceful route on this, I would cede Lakara to the aliens in good faith, but ensure at the same time I both claimed and built an established base in Hawat. I'm not looking at it from the point of having aliens moving into my front lawn, but more that it is a gateway system that allows control of new trade routes to future deposits.

You mention having plenty of fuel currently, so loosing this source right now isn't an issue, but I would be looking for a new supply further outside Hawat while I built it up.

It's a peaceful solution that says "hey we are co-operative buut also not to be pushed around".

[nakorkren (OP)]

Any idea if that will prevent them from sending civilian ships to trade with me in Hawat?

[Garfunkel]

No, civilian shipping lines don't worry about that. Claiming a system means they won't create colonies or send military ships there.

[bankshot]

I'm about 30 years into my game and I've recently encountered aliens in a surveyed but not colonized system.  They have two 7.1K and 7.3K ton ships parked at the entry jump point - I assume those would be grav and geo survey ships?  I don't have any diplomatic ships yet (building my first now) so I moved a survey ship into range of them until we were able to establish communications.  The diplomacy rating is 22 and they've been parked at the entry jump point for several months. 

Per http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.195 and http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg120024#msg120024

I don't seem to have any diplomatic options available other than to suggest/request/demand they leave the system.  I haven't set that since my colony is still <1M population so it's EM signature is weak.  Will more become available as the diplomacy rating improves and/or once I have a ship with a diplomatic module in place (which is required to improve the ratings)? 

[nuclearslurpee]

They have two 7.1K and 7.3K ton ships parked at the entry jump point - I assume those would be grav and geo survey ships?

Spoilered for those who prefer to learn NPR ship classes from experience: Probably they are a scout and diplo ship if they are the only ones present. NPRs have dedicated jump-capable scout classes and like to send their diplo ships out to sit on jump points with their other exploration ships. The survey ships are usually out surveying, not sitting at the JPs.

I don't seem to have any diplomatic options available other than to suggest/request/demand they leave the system.  I haven't set that since my colony is still <1M population so it's EM signature is weak.  Will more become available as the diplomacy rating improves and/or once I have a ship with a diplomatic module in place (which is required to improve the ratings)?

The options are only available when you have raised your diplo rating with that NPR to the required thresholds. This can lead to a situation where the NPR makes a certain diplomatic deal with you and you are not yet able to reciprocate, but that will not cause an undue hit to relations. Actually you would never have to reciprocate, but I would suggest doing so anyways for fair play if nothing else, at least until Steve makes diplomacy actually bilateral in the distant future.

[bankshot]

Thanks.  I'm adding ELINT and size 4.5 sensors (a part designed for my scout fighters) into the diplomatic ships due to a request by the Russian Federation so the ship will be considered military, so I'll need to produce two so that I'll always have one on station.  Can multiple diplomatic ships work in separate systems to add more points or is there a limit of one per NPR?

[Garfunkel]

One per system.

[bankshot]

My first diplomatic ship has been on-station for 2 years, and the diplomatic rating has steadily been improving, we are now at 140.9.  Opening up the alien window I now show "Trade Access Granted" under the Alien Race treaty - I assume this is their grant to me.  Does the fact that I haven't seen any other changes on the screen mean that my rating with them is still too low to allow that? 

After building up the local colony for awhile I was able to successfully "suggest leave".  I never saw any diplomatic rating impact but I assume that was because a) the NPR didn't have any colonies in this system so didn't care all that much and b) the displayed rating was my opinion of them, not theirs of me.  The system on their side of our contact had no planets but the NPR did stabilize both sides of all four warp points.  I peeked at the systems behind the other three warp points and still did not find any obvious NPR ships or infrastructure.  I've begun a grav survey of one of those systems and have discovered a un-stabilized warp point, suggesting the NPR did not come from that direction but chose to stabilize the path to it for future use.

[nuclearslurpee]

Does the fact that I haven't seen any other changes on the screen mean that my rating with them is still too low to allow that? 

I believe so if I read your description correctly.

b) the displayed rating was my opinion of them, not theirs of me.

This is correct. You cannot see an NPR's opinion of yourself, the only clues you get are when the NPRs provide the trade, data-sharing, etc. agreements to your race.

[Droll]

Does the fact that I haven't seen any other changes on the screen mean that my rating with them is still too low to allow that? 

I believe so if I read your description correctly.

b) the displayed rating was my opinion of them, not theirs of me.

This is correct. You cannot see an NPR's opinion of yourself, the only clues you get are when the NPRs provide the trade, data-sharing, etc. agreements to your race.

Gaining Intelligence Points (IP) on one of their populations can also reveal their relation with you (or other NPRs/spoilers) though it can take some time as other things can also be revealed that way.

[Garfunkel]

And "some time" can be several years!

[bankshot]

After a few months relations improved to the point that I got the option to allow trade access.  And after "some time" (re: several years) I was declared a friendly power by the NPR.  The message indicated that I have access to their jump tenders but I haven't found any of those yet.  I also now have "geological data shared" as an alien race treaty but no option to reciprocate that yet.  However when I moved a ship into a "request leave" system I was still prompted to leave.  It was now a suggestion instead of a request as I think my threat level was halved by being a friendly power so at least the damage was minimal.  This poses a problem for improving relations as the one alien diplomatic ship I've identified has stationed itself in their protected territory. 

I've identified what I believe is their capital (my geosurvey ship got a "demand leave" just after detecting a heavy EM signature on a cost 0 world).  One jump away is where I got "suggest leave".  I read that one diplomatic ship is ignored as long as it is not a capital or core system.  Would I still get the "suggest leave" notice for a diplomatic ship if it isn't in core territory?   I'd like to park a diplo ship next to the NPRs to speed up relationship improvement but I don't know if that would be counterproductive.

[nuclearslurpee]

It should be fine and the warning erroneous. From the 1.14/2.0 change log:

Fixed bug that caused NPRs to issue warnings when the threat level was zero. For example, a small diplomatic ship currently generates zero threat but results in a warning.

[Garfunkel]

A commercial engine ship with a diplo module and massing less than 10,000 tons while not having military sensors will not cause any hit to relations.