Author Topic: Mines and Minefields  (Read 2120 times)

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Offline liveware (OP)

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Re: Mines and Minefields
« Reply #60 on: May 22, 2020, 07:40:50 PM »
So I have now combat tested a 2 stage missile that also does not appear to work. 1st stage (the booster stage) works as intended and closes towards the target, but after the 2nd stage separates, it disappears. No event log entry or anything, just vanishes.

I'm sticking to single stage designs for a while.

Did your second stage have onboard sensors?

A missile that runs out of fuel is deleted.  That means it is a mistake to put engines (or fuel) on your 'buoy' or mine (stage), as that will only shorten its life.

A missile that entirely loses sensor lock is deleted.  If a later stage fails to properly inherit control from the firing ship, the missile poofs.  If the 'mine' stage loses lock (or range) to the target then a warhead without sensors has also lost its lock, and poofs.

The Aurora missile system wasn't designed with mines in mind; some clever folk figured out a way to make 'mines' with it and ever since we've been dealing with the fallout.

1. All of my missile/mine stages have active sensors.

2. Fueled sensor buoys, for me, appear to have infinite life. I have yet to observe one disappear.

3. Based on my observations, my missile volley (2 stage missiles, not 3 stage mine) should never have lost sensor lock on the target. I had the target in range of several sensor platforms as well as the launch platform's MFC. At separation range, the missiles were within active sensor range of the 1st stage and they should have been within range of 2nd stage active sensors (1st and 2nd stage have same sensor radius). However I never observed any 2nd stage at all so I have no idea what happened... I was using 5 second increments with 5 second sub-pulses.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 07:43:06 PM by liveware »
Open the pod-bay doors HAL...
 

Offline Caplin

Re: Mines and Minefields
« Reply #61 on: May 23, 2020, 10:10:30 AM »
Couldyou post your designs?
 

Offline consiefe

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Re: Mines and Minefields
« Reply #62 on: May 23, 2020, 10:23:26 AM »
Well, that's unsettling. Two stage missiles are simple enough to work without complications. I just designed a two stage which separates at 12m and in total has 100m range. I should get away without an active on the 2nd stage because target inheritance(?). I didn't test my missiles yet, I'll write back when I do.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 10:26:21 AM by consiefe »
 

Offline Father Tim

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Re: Mines and Minefields
« Reply #63 on: June 01, 2020, 10:46:01 AM »
2. Fueled sensor buoys, for me, appear to have infinite life. I have yet to observe one disappear.


I understand from your phrasing that the 'sensor buoys' have fuel but no engine?  In which case it's perfectly understandable that they never run out, as they're not using fuel.  (And that fuel is a waste of mass.)

In case you meant they do have engines, then if fired at a waypoint within range, they would move to that waypoint and stop. . . and thus stop burning fuel and again it's perfectly understandable that they never run out.  I consider this a two-stage missile and not the sort of buoy I was talking about.
 

Offline SpikeTheHobbitMage

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Re: Mines and Minefields
« Reply #64 on: June 01, 2020, 11:18:09 AM »
2. Fueled sensor buoys, for me, appear to have infinite life. I have yet to observe one disappear.


I understand from your phrasing that the 'sensor buoys' have fuel but no engine?  In which case it's perfectly understandable that they never run out, as they're not using fuel.  (And that fuel is a waste of mass.)

In case you meant they do have engines, then if fired at a waypoint within range, they would move to that waypoint and stop. . . and thus stop burning fuel and again it's perfectly understandable that they never run out.  I consider this a two-stage missile and not the sort of buoy I was talking about.
It must be the first case.  In the second case, a fuelled two stage missile that is fired at a waypoint should immediately release the second stage when it arrives.  A single stage in that situation should self-destruct if it can't find a target.
 

Offline Micco40

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Re: Mines and Minefields
« Reply #65 on: June 04, 2020, 05:46:47 PM »
Quote from: liveware link=topic=11417. msg133822#msg133822 date=1589840457

This design works as expected.  When deployed at a waypoint, it sits there and does nothing except provide sensor coverage.

I've been messing around with mines and buoys too, but for some reason I cannot get figure out how to show the passive detection ranges.   They sit there but appear to do nothing.   Is there a way to turn the passive detection ranges on?
 

Offline SpikeTheHobbitMage

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Re: Mines and Minefields
« Reply #66 on: June 04, 2020, 06:08:54 PM »
Quote from: liveware link=topic=11417. msg133822#msg133822 date=1589840457

This design works as expected.  When deployed at a waypoint, it sits there and does nothing except provide sensor coverage.

I've been messing around with mines and buoys too, but for some reason I cannot get figure out how to show the passive detection ranges.   They sit there but appear to do nothing.   Is there a way to turn the passive detection ranges on?
Tactical window, Display tab, there are check-boxes for Passive vs Signature 10 through 10,000.
 
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Offline Micco40

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Re: Mines and Minefields
« Reply #67 on: June 04, 2020, 06:45:47 PM »
Quote from: SpikeTheHobbitMage link=topic=11417. msg136127#msg136127 date=1591312134

Tactical window, Display tab, there are check-boxes for Passive vs Signature 10 through 10,000.

Spike, thank you very much.   I really hadn't noticed that before.   

Is there a way to show the radius visually on the tactical window, similar to how we see active sensors?
 

Offline SpikeTheHobbitMage

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Re: Mines and Minefields
« Reply #68 on: June 04, 2020, 06:53:38 PM »
Quote from: SpikeTheHobbitMage link=topic=11417. msg136127#msg136127 date=1591312134

Tactical window, Display tab, there are check-boxes for Passive vs Signature 10 through 10,000.

Spike, thank you very much.   I really hadn't noticed that before.   

Is there a way to show the radius visually on the tactical window, similar to how we see active sensors?
That is what those check-boxes do.  If you don't see the circles then you are either zoomed out too far or in too close.
 
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Offline Micco40

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Re: Mines and Minefields
« Reply #69 on: June 04, 2020, 08:01:54 PM »
Quote from: SpikeTheHobbitMage link=topic=11417. msg136139#msg136139 date=1591314818

That is what those check-boxes do.   If you don't see the circles then you are either zoomed out too far or in too close.

Again, thank you so much.   I guess i didn't realize how small the radius was for the buoy i had designed.   Back to the drawing board!
 

Offline vorpal+5

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Re: Mines and Minefields
« Reply #70 on: June 04, 2020, 10:37:45 PM »
So in summary, is everything working as expected or it is not? Steve said there was no game breaking bug in 1.11. I guess even if multi-stages missiles and mines don't work, that's not game breaking for him, but only major (or even perhaps only minor), so it can wait?
 

Offline liveware (OP)

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Re: Mines and Minefields
« Reply #71 on: June 05, 2020, 12:22:00 AM »
I abandoned my v195 campaign which prompted my original post. I have not yet tested sensor buoys/mines in my v1100 campaign. I will post back with testing results.
Open the pod-bay doors HAL...
 
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Offline SpikeTheHobbitMage

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Re: Mines and Minefields
« Reply #72 on: June 05, 2020, 05:32:52 PM »
So in summary, is everything working as expected or it is not? Steve said there was no game breaking bug in 1.11. I guess even if multi-stages missiles and mines don't work, that's not game breaking for him, but only major (or even perhaps only minor), so it can wait?
'Game breaking' at this point seems to mean 'actually unplayable' rather than just missing features.  So database corruption or being unable to issue fleet commands would be game breaking, but it is still possible to play without mines.  Aurora C# is effectively in early beta right now so I wouldn't worry to much about it.
 

 

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