Author Topic: How to delete NPRs with step by step guide?  (Read 6699 times)

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Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: How to delete NPRs with step by step guide?
« Reply #45 on: January 06, 2021, 06:07:22 AM »
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I think I will just quietly step away from the thread at this point

Why? I made this reply you quoted precisely to hear your response on that matter. If you wish me to make other thread or something, just say so, I really want to hear your opinion on this. And if you don't want to tell it for whatever reason, I'd be really grateful if at least you stated so explicitly.

For some reason, you seem fixated on performance and are prepared to make whatever gameplay sacrifices are required to improve it.

In the VB6 version of Aurora, players would literally wait minutes for a single turn to execute, usually reading a book or playing something else in-between turns. I've done that myself. In fact, I started coding the C# version while waiting for turns to execute in the VB6 version. From that you can draw two conclusions. Firstly, for any VB6 player the C# version is already lightning fast. Many of the early comments on C# were regarding the vast improvement in performance. The second conclusion is that Aurora players place a much higher premium on gameplay than performance or they would never have played VB6 at all (and VB6 had an active player base from 2004 to 2020).

Aurora is about detailed gameplay, fun roleplay and a huge time investment. It has never been about speed of play. One of the key points about Aurora is that the AI players (as much as possible) follow the same rules as the player. This isn't like a lot of games where the AI cheats to gain an advantage. The AI has the same sensors and gains tactical intelligence information in the same way as the player. It will only make decisions based on information that the player could also gather in the same situations. NPRs explore in the same way as players and have the same requirements for construction. The complex simulation isn't a problem to be solved - its the whole point of the game.

To get the most out of Aurora, it's best to adopt a more relaxed approach. Create a theme and backstory for your Empire and enjoy the journey and the story that unfolds. Don't worry about how fast you get there, because campaigns can last months or even years. If you are impatient or performance feels like a major issue, then Aurora is unlikely to be the ideal game for you. Which is fine BTW, because that will be true for the majority of people. Aurora is aimed at the relatively small group of gamers who want this type of slow-paced, in-depth game. Ultimately, this is a game I created to play myself. I share it on here so that other like-minded people can enjoy too and help me improve the game. However, the suggestions that get coded are usually new functions that appeal to me, or quick quality-of-life fixes.

Finally, this is the most helpful forum I have ever found on the internet. One reason for that is how well Erik runs the forums. Another is that Aurora seems to attract smart, helpful people. You have criticized people for trying to he helpful or having a different point of view, when they plainly had good intentions. You can have a different opinion and still respect the perspective of others.

The reason I said "I will just quietly step away from the thread at this point" was that we don't have a common framework for discussion. What is obviously important to you is not important to me, so it is unlikely we could find common ground. Therefore, the polite thing to do is accept your point of view is different and avoid an unproductive debate.
 
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Offline Stormtrooper (OP)

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Re: How to delete NPRs with step by step guide?
« Reply #46 on: January 06, 2021, 09:33:09 AM »
I'll just say one final thing: this is why I love rimworld. It's also a game that has performance issues, requires a huge time investment and is all about complex simulation, however unlike this game or dwarf fortress, for example, it simulates only those parts that affect gameplay, so in rimworld you won't find your game suddenly slowing down because hostile factions have a firefight on the other side of the planet than your colony, for example.
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: How to delete NPRs with step by step guide?
« Reply #47 on: January 06, 2021, 09:40:40 AM »
I'll just say one final thing: this is why I love rimworld. It's also a game that has performance issues, requires a huge time investment and is all about complex simulation, however unlike this game or dwarf fortress, for example, it simulates only those parts that affect gameplay, so in rimworld you won't find your game suddenly slowing down because hostile factions have a firefight on the other side of the planet than your colony, for example.

Depends on your definition of 'affects gameplay'. If your opponent is playing realistically the whole time, then it will influence the overall situation when you eventually meet that opponent. I haven't played Rimworld, but I have heard very positive things about it and the steam reviews are excellent. If that is more to your taste, then I suggest playing Rimworld rather than becoming frustrated with Aurora because it isn't the game you want.
 
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Offline Stormtrooper (OP)

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Re: How to delete NPRs with step by step guide?
« Reply #48 on: January 06, 2021, 10:01:36 AM »
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then it will influence the overall situation when you eventually meet that opponent.

As much as it'll sound ironically to you, I agree. The thing is, the player can't tell the difference. You warp into a system, you see a bunch of colonies and a bunch of ships. How do you know if they just spawned (in case you encounter generated npr) or are a product of complex simulation? (pre-existing npr)

I know you won't agree etc etc, just want to clarify it for the sake of understanding each other's point properly. You could've as well make the AI according to my suggestion and blatantly lie that it follows "the same rules of complex simulations." Players would believe you because the only way to uncover the truth would be to reverse-engineer the game. (with this I assume the proper simulation of ships would kick in when the player is in the system and so on and so forth, so the AI would "cheat" only without player presence in a given system).

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I suggest playing Rimworld rather than becoming frustrated with Aurora because it isn't the game you want.

et tu, Brute, contra me?  :'( You think this thread would even exist if that was the possibility? This suggestion would be only valid if Rimworld was an "auroralike", but it's not. I want to play the game like aurora, which doesn't leave me with any choice at all. ;)
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: How to delete NPRs with step by step guide?
« Reply #49 on: January 06, 2021, 10:13:49 AM »
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then it will influence the overall situation when you eventually meet that opponent.

As much as it'll sound ironically to you, I agree. The thing is, the player can't tell the difference. You warp into a system, you see a bunch of colonies and a bunch of ships. How do you know if they just spawned (in case you encounter generated npr) or are a product of complex simulation? (pre-existing npr)

I know you won't agree etc etc, just want to clarify it for the sake of understanding each other's point properly. You could've as well make the AI according to my suggestion and blatantly lie that it follows "the same rules of complex simulations." Players would believe you because the only way to uncover the truth would be to reverse-engineer the game. (with this I assume the proper simulation of ships would kick in when the player is in the system and so on and so forth, so the AI would "cheat" only without player presence in a given system).

The point is that *I* would know. I'm building the game primarily for myself and I want the NPRs to be realistic. I want life to continue in the galaxy, even if I am not watching everything happen. When I come across a wreck, I know there was a battle between two alien forces. I don't know when, or if they are still in the system, or what the fight was about, or how powerful they might be but suddenly I am imagining the worst and trying to decide what to do and how to deploy forces. The wreck is a sign that something is happening beyond my sight, but has a huge influence on my reactions. What I don't want to think is - oh, there is a randomly generated wreck. Nothing to worry about.

Or I might detect an alien freighter that hasn't seen me. Why is that freighter here and what was it doing in the system? What is carrying. Are there alien colonies here? Maybe I can trail it and find out where it is going and why? Or should I pull back and call up reinforcements? The aliens going about their business in the background has now presented me with meaningful choices.

I know you may simply want aliens thrown in your way to fight, but that isn't the design philosophy of the game. There has to be a story, not just a battle.
 

Offline Stormtrooper (OP)

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Re: How to delete NPRs with step by step guide?
« Reply #50 on: January 06, 2021, 10:42:02 AM »
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There has to be a story, not just a battle.

Don't take it too personally, but I see a great irony in that sentence given how every single npr is the same in terms of they share the same tech tree, same buildings, same ship components and they don't even have a single lore-related word associated with them anywhere in the game, yet on the military side of things everything is so detailed to the point you design your own missiles.
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: How to delete NPRs with step by step guide?
« Reply #51 on: January 06, 2021, 11:04:38 AM »
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There has to be a story, not just a battle.

Don't take it too personally, but I see a great irony in that sentence given how every single npr is the same in terms of they share the same tech tree, same buildings, same ship components and they don't even have a single lore-related word associated with them anywhere in the game, yet on the military side of things everything is so detailed to the point you design your own missiles.

Except of course the AI races don't share the same tech tree or ship components. They can be radically different in some cases :)

Also, the lore is not in the NPRs. It's in your head. This is a game with minimal graphics and a lot of detail and events, so you use your imagination to build a story. Maybe play the game a while (longer than a few days) and read some AARs before developing strong opinions.

I suspect you will simply find Aurora frustrating and I am plainly not going to affect the view you have held since the start of the thread, so I will bow out at this point.

 

Offline Stormtrooper (OP)

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Re: How to delete NPRs with step by step guide?
« Reply #52 on: January 06, 2021, 11:19:19 AM »
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Maybe play the game a while (longer than a few days) and read some AARs before developing strong opinions.

How ironic... I play this game for a month now, not a few days, approaching roughly 70 hours or something and apart from "reading some AARs" I have my own posted on Aurora discord server which so far covers 150 in-game years so my opinions didn't came out of nowhere.

I'd have probably ended up this discussion rn, just had to clarify this seeing how quickly you came to false conclusions regarding my experience with the game so far.
 

Offline Iceranger

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Re: How to delete NPRs with step by step guide?
« Reply #53 on: January 06, 2021, 11:32:56 AM »
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Maybe play the game a while (longer than a few days) and read some AARs before developing strong opinions.

How ironic... I play this game for a month now, not a few days, approaching roughly 70 hours or something and apart from "reading some AARs" I have my own posted on Aurora discord server which so far covers 150 in-game years so my opinions didn't came out of nowhere.

I'd have probably ended up this discussion rn, just had to clarify this seeing how quickly you came to false conclusions regarding my experience with the game so far.

You just have to respect that this is Steve's game that he happens to be glad to share with the community generously. If he likes a suggestion, he will include it in the game, and on the other hand, he has all the rights to reject the ideas that he doesn't like.

70 hours isn't really something that can be bragged about in terms of Aurora playtime :)
 

Offline SpaceMarine

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Re: How to delete NPRs with step by step guide?
« Reply #54 on: January 06, 2021, 11:37:23 AM »
I am just gonna throw my two pence in here, at this point you guys need to just stop and if I was really active id lock this thread because all thats happening is arguing for the sake of it as no ones reaching common ground or coming to an understanding.

I also want to comment that as someone who has played aurora and made tutorials and plenty of other stuff on it since C# released, I dont even consider myself to have plenty of "experience" with the game because thats how indepth it is, so i find it absurd to go around and throw out numbers of playtime and things trying to say i have x amount of experience or not.

Because I really dont care about whos right or wrong I will also say in stormtroopers defense, that you shouldnt devalue someones opinion because of their perceived lack of experience purely, but you can devalue their opinion based on the actions they take.


At the end of the day, yall need to calm it, realise this is not productive at this point and agree to disagree as civilised human beings.
 
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Offline Erik L

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Re: How to delete NPRs with step by step guide?
« Reply #55 on: January 06, 2021, 12:08:27 PM »
Good idea @SpaceMarine :)
 
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