Missile and Bouy designs

[Hawkeye]

Haven´t used buoys as second stage myself, so take anything I say with a grain of salt  -  I can not be held responsible for any loss of life or material sustained because of false information gethered from this post

[attachment=1:1qhgu1ii]Buoy.JPG[/attachment:1qhgu1ii]

First you design your buoy. As you can see, I have thrown together a size 2 buoy with a lifespan of 3 months and a res-100 active sensor, which will activate as soon as the buoy separates from the carrier-missile

Once the buoy is researched, you can start designing the missile, that is to carry it.

[attachment=0:1qhgu1ii]first_stage.JPG[/attachment:1qhgu1ii]

The build missile is then launched at a waypoint and the buoy will separate once that waypoint is reached. if you don´t change the default separation range (150.000km) it will seperate at that distance from the waypoint.

At least that is how I understand it

[Canaris]

You're the man, Hawkeye, thanks!

I knew there was something right under my nose I was missing.

EDIT: Okay, so I just figured out that you can't launch a missile directly at a planet from a PDC. So I'll have to build a ship-based missile platform to use my geo survey satellites (buoys).

[Beersatron]

Steve mentioned in the bug thread that the drone stuff is incomplete. He had a database corruption on his development machine and lost a pile of work and during his re-working of the same material he missed some of the updates.

It looks like the Drone stuff will be in full effect for the next release, but that the next release will be 4.9, therefore a DB release and therefore game restarts ahoy-hoy!

Ah, so the geo sensors checkbox does nothing for standard missiles but add useless weight?

Thinking about it some more, I am confusing myself between a buoy and a drone.

You 'should' be able to fit a buoy as the second stage of a munition, the first stage being a missile (sans warhead) and fire it at the planet. But, the range on a first stage missile is going to be short - hence why Steve has added the drone type to munitions.

I have never done this myself, so don't know the correct steps to making one.

[sloanjh]

EDIT: Another option is to make the buoy the second stage for a missile. That way the buoy will deploy when the missile reaches its target.

I hope this isn't considered gravedigging, but how does one go about that?

EDIT: If it's not possible, can I use regular missiles as long-range geological survey probes? They can fit geo sensors, afterall.

In the missile design screen, you can specify a payload (or maybe it's called 2nd stage) of 0-N already-designed missiles.  So design the buoy (presumably with zero engines).  Then research the buoy.  The design the carrier, specifying the buoy design as the 2nd stage.

EDIT: DOH!!!  I hate it when I miss the next screenfull of replies!!!!

John

[Vanigo]

So, I had a crazy idea... Somebody tell me if this is stupid or not:

Code: [Select]

Missile Size: 1 MSP  (0.05 HS)     Warhead: 0    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 24000 km/s    Endurance: 62 minutes   Range: 90.0m km
Cost Per Missile: 0.5
Second Stage: Angry Flea Smart Chaff x100
Second Stage Separation Range: 150,000 km
Overall Endurance: 2 hours   Overall Range: 202.5m km
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 240%   3k km/s 80%   5k km/s 48%   10k km/s 24%
Materials Required:    Fuel x1000

Missile Size: 0.002 MSP  (0.0001 HS)     Warhead: 0    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 30000 km/s    Endurance: 62 minutes   Range: 112.5m km
Cost Per Missile: 0.001
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 300%   3k km/s 100%   5k km/s 60%   10k km/s 30%
Materials Required:    Fuel x2.5The idea is to swamp the enemy's missile defense with hundreds of tiny, harmless missiles. It is, of course, worthless if point defense systems prioritize larger missiles or something. Anyone have any insights?

[Erik L]

So, I had a crazy idea... Somebody tell me if this is stupid or not:

Code: [Select]

Missile Size: 1 MSP  (0.05 HS)     Warhead: 0    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 24000 km/s    Endurance: 62 minutes   Range: 90.0m km
Cost Per Missile: 0.5
Second Stage: Angry Flea Smart Chaff x100
Second Stage Separation Range: 150,000 km
Overall Endurance: 2 hours   Overall Range: 202.5m km
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 240%   3k km/s 80%   5k km/s 48%   10k km/s 24%
Materials Required:    Fuel x1000

Missile Size: 0.002 MSP  (0.0001 HS)     Warhead: 0    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 30000 km/s    Endurance: 62 minutes   Range: 112.5m km
Cost Per Missile: 0.001
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 300%   3k km/s 100%   5k km/s 60%   10k km/s 30%
Materials Required:    Fuel x2.5The idea is to swamp the enemy's missile defense with hundreds of tiny, harmless missiles. It is, of course, worthless if point defense systems prioritize larger missiles or something. Anyone have any insights?

From a standpoint of defending against these, I'd stop trying to intercept anything smaller than a size 2 missile after the first bunch hit and did nothing to me. I'm not sure how the AI would react, as it's very hard to put an offensive punch into a 1 MSP missile without high levels of tech.

[Steve Walmsley]

So, I had a crazy idea... Somebody tell me if this is stupid or not:

Code: [Select]

Missile Size: 1 MSP  (0.05 HS)     Warhead: 0    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 24000 km/s    Endurance: 62 minutes   Range: 90.0m km
Cost Per Missile: 0.5
Second Stage: Angry Flea Smart Chaff x100
Second Stage Separation Range: 150,000 km
Overall Endurance: 2 hours   Overall Range: 202.5m km
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 240%   3k km/s 80%   5k km/s 48%   10k km/s 24%
Materials Required:    Fuel x1000

Missile Size: 0.002 MSP  (0.0001 HS)     Warhead: 0    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 30000 km/s    Endurance: 62 minutes   Range: 112.5m km
Cost Per Missile: 0.001
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 300%   3k km/s 100%   5k km/s 60%   10k km/s 30%
Materials Required:    Fuel x2.5The idea is to swamp the enemy's missile defense with hundreds of tiny, harmless missiles. It is, of course, worthless if point defense systems prioritize larger missiles or something. Anyone have any insights?

A very good idea. Inspired in fact . At first I considering getting automated point defence to ignore tiny missiles but at higher tech levels, you could get a warhead even on fairly small missiles so that wouldn't work. Then I considered tiny anti-missiles but that path leads to eventual insanity

Steve

[Vanigo]

A very good idea. Inspired in fact . At first I considering getting automated point defence to ignore tiny missiles but at higher tech levels, you could get a warhead even on fairly small missiles so that wouldn't work. Then I considered tiny anti-missiles but that path leads to eventual insanity

Steve

I wouldn't call it the only solution. If you set it up so that point defense preferentially targeted larger missiles when there are too many to target them all, it'd solve the problem. (And really, it's just a good idea anyway; how else would an engineer have the system prioritize targets? Randomly? That's nuts!)
Also, if you do decide to do it that way, I wouldn't give it a hard cap of 1. As you said, you could get a dangerous missile awfully small at high tech levels. Maybe put in research projects to reduce minimum missile size?

[Beersatron]

A very good idea. Inspired in fact . At first I considering getting automated point defence to ignore tiny missiles but at higher tech levels, you could get a warhead even on fairly small missiles so that wouldn't work. Then I considered tiny anti-missiles but that path leads to eventual insanity

Steve

I wouldn't call it the only solution. If you set it up so that point defense preferentially targeted larger missiles when there are too many to target them all, it'd solve the problem. (And really, it's just a good idea anyway; how else would an engineer have the system prioritize targets? Randomly? That's nuts!)
Also, if you do decide to do it that way, I wouldn't give it a hard cap of 1. As you said, you could get a dangerous missile awfully small at high tech levels. Maybe put in research projects to reduce minimum missile size?

If you set the PD up to target the largest missile then I am going to go and design a large missile with no warhead but extra armor and missile-ecm!  

[Erik L]

I'd still like to see missile ECM affect the salvo it is in.

As for the gobs of teeny missiles vs large ones. Maybe the AI should track the intel on missiles too. You see how fast they are, warhead size, etc. If I see a missile a second time that I deem lower priority, I'll leave it for the secondary layer of defense.

[Charlie Beeler]

Personally,  I'd like to see current basic missile fire control being used for PD to functionally allocated intercepts on first seen first engaged basis.  Which I think is what it does now.

A new tech based on a tech level of active sensors (tbd) that is dedicated to PD only that then can set priorities to intercepts would be appropriate.  Empire, task force, task group, and ship level protocols could be entered into the mix with advance techs.  This of course is predicated on Steve thinking it's a good idea since the coding will be a royal pain.  

[The Shadow]

Hey, first-time poster.

I got very tired of my exploration ships being shot down when they encounter NPR's, so I designed a two-stage delivery system for geosurvey buoys to check out promising planets in the inner system.  It's the first missile system I've built, so be gentle.

The trouble is, I cannot get the darn things to launch!  Someone mentioned above that drones were messed up, but it's been a few versions since then, so I assume they're fixed.

I've been assuming that you don't need missile fire control to hit a planet, but just in case I've tried it both ways.  In every case, when I "launch missiles at" the planet (or a waypoint on top of the planet), the ship flies directly to the planet, then apparently does nothing.  I lose a drone from the ship's inventory, but no geosurvey data ever comes back.

(What sort of sensor do you put on a guided missile, by the way?  If you want it to hit a possibly uninhabited planet, that is!  Active sensor?)

EDIT:  Curiouser and curiouser.  In my latest attempt, the ship flew directly to the planet, then launched the drone - at the sun.  I have tried this with several different planets - the drone always launches at the sun.  Very weird.  (The version had an active sensor on it, maybe that's it?)

[Vanigo]

Actually, you don't need sensors at all. The 'launch missiles at' command is, as you may have guessed, short for 'move to this place and launch a missile at whatever target you used last'. It's mostly useful for dropping mines and buoys. In order to launch a missile or drone at something that's not an enemy contact, you need to put a waypoint there; enemy contacts and waypoints are the only valid targets. If you select the planet you want to survey, then go to the waypoints tab and click 'last', it'll attach a waypoint to that planet. Once you've done that, the waypoint will show up as a possible target for any missile fire control in the system. It doesn't matter how big the fire control is - waypoints can be targeted by any fire control at any range - but you will need to have some sort of fire control on your geosurvey ship.

[UnLimiTeD]

While we got a nice discussion about missile design here, is it somehow possible to design a MIRV style Cluster-Missile with more than one second stage?
I mean, I originally aimed at a rather huge missile with armor that would be manually detonated once the enemy launches his first AMM salvo, containing several small, fast Missiles and a sensor Missile to guide them.
Now I know that is sadly not possible, as there's no fire control buoy, but it would still be nice to pack two types of missiles into one carrier.
Without expending a fighter.
Also, whats the kind of sensors for?
I know missiles will use these if they lose their target, but is one kind preferable over the others?

[Hawkeye]

While we got a nice discussion about missile design here, is it somehow possible to design a MIRV style Cluster-Missile with more than one second stage?
I mean, I originally aimed at a rather huge missile with armor that would be manually detonated once the enemy launches his first AMM salvo, containing several small, fast Missiles and a sensor Missile to guide them.
Now I know that is sadly not possible, as there's no fire control buoy, but it would still be nice to pack two types of missiles into one carrier.
Without expending a fighter.
Also, whats the kind of sensors for?
I know missiles will use these if they lose their target, but is one kind preferable over the others?

Look again at the second picture in my post at the top of the page. There is the "second stage" section. There you specify the type and number of second stage missiles as well as the seperation range