Author Topic: Trans-Newtonian Campaign - Part 11  (Read 5278 times)

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Offline jfelten

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Re: Trans-Newtonian Campaign - Part 11
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2009, 05:52:02 AM »
Quote from: "Randy"
 I'd be pretty disapponted if all NPR just mindlessly attack. There should be question in what they will do. :->

Unless of course they are one of the classic "zombie" races, but in that case they need huge resources to be a challenge in the long run.

Writing a good AI is a huge challenge, especially if they don't "cheat".  It looks like Steve has done an admirable job for a .0 version.  But to make something that will give a human player a real challenge all else being equal is going to take a lot of work and continual improvements.
 

Offline SteveAlt

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Re: Trans-Newtonian Campaign - Part 11
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2009, 02:58:57 PM »
Quote from: "jfelten"
Nice story Steve.  I hope your AI aliens have some missile defense or they are going to be easy pickings.
These particular ships don't but that doesn't mean NPRs in general won't have any. Just like player races, the NPRs will sometimes get caught without escorts.

Steve
 

Offline SteveAlt

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Re: Trans-Newtonian Campaign - Part 11
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2009, 02:59:56 PM »
Quote from: "Erik Luken"
Quote from: "jfelten"
Nice story Steve.  I hope your AI aliens have some missile defense or they are going to be easy pickings.

I don't know. The aliens have not had any serious complications from the missiles, yet. They seem to be able to recover from the damage sustained quite handily.
They are just using the standard damage control rules. Any damaged NPR ships will assess the priority for repairs and use whatever maintenance supplies they have available.

Steve
 

Offline SteveAlt

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Re: Trans-Newtonian Campaign - Part 11
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2009, 03:04:22 PM »
Quote from: "jfelten"
Quote from: "Randy"
 I'd be pretty disapponted if all NPR just mindlessly attack. There should be question in what they will do. :->
Unless of course they are one of the classic "zombie" races, but in that case they need huge resources to be a challenge in the long run.

Writing a good AI is a huge challenge, especially if they don't "cheat".  It looks like Steve has done an admirable job for a .0 version.  But to make something that will give a human player a real challenge all else being equal is going to take a lot of work and continual improvements.
In v4.0, all NPRs will be hostile. I haven't tackled NPR diplomacy yet although I will do in future versions. Bear in mind I have been working on the AI for perhaps 5-6 weeks. I have already got much further than I hoped so over the next 12 months I hope it will become reasonably challenging. Of course, as all NPRs are hostile for the moment, dealing with multiple NPRs simultaneously will be a challenge. Don't forget the NPRs are exploring too and they may activate additional NPRs so you really won't know how many alien races are out there or how strong they are.

Steve
 

Offline sloanjh

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Re: Trans-Newtonian Campaign - Part 11
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2009, 09:39:03 PM »
Quote from: "SteveAlt"
In v4.0, all NPRs will be hostile. I haven't tackled NPR diplomacy yet although I will do in future versions. Bear in mind I have been working on the AI for perhaps 5-6 weeks. I have already got much further than I hoped so over the next 12 months I hope it will become reasonably challenging. Of course, as all NPRs are hostile for the moment, dealing with multiple NPRs simultaneously will be a challenge. Don't forget the NPRs are exploring too and they may activate additional NPRs so you really won't know how many alien races are out there or how strong they are.

That reminds me of something I've always wondered about the Diaries: how did the early NPR races (i.e. the Bugs and the Octopi) get activated?  Did you already have them seeded from the start of the game, or did that survey fleet that escaped early start an activation cascade?

John

PS - Since I phrased it as an "either/or" question, I assume the answer will be something completely different :-)
 

Offline Erik Luken

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Re: Trans-Newtonian Campaign - Part 11
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2009, 09:52:48 PM »
Quote from: "sloanjh"
Quote from: "SteveAlt"
In v4.0, all NPRs will be hostile. I haven't tackled NPR diplomacy yet although I will do in future versions. Bear in mind I have been working on the AI for perhaps 5-6 weeks. I have already got much further than I hoped so over the next 12 months I hope it will become reasonably challenging. Of course, as all NPRs are hostile for the moment, dealing with multiple NPRs simultaneously will be a challenge. Don't forget the NPRs are exploring too and they may activate additional NPRs so you really won't know how many alien races are out there or how strong they are.

That reminds me of something I've always wondered about the Diaries: how did the early NPR races (i.e. the Bugs and the Octopi) get activated?  Did you already have them seeded from the start of the game, or did that survey fleet that escaped early start an activation cascade?

John

PS - Since I phrased it as an "either/or" question, I assume the answer will be something completely different :)
 

Offline SteveAlt

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Re: Trans-Newtonian Campaign - Part 11
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2009, 08:42:03 AM »
Quote from: "sloanjh"
That reminds me of something I've always wondered about the Diaries: how did the early NPR races (i.e. the Bugs and the Octopi) get activated?  Did you already have them seeded from the start of the game, or did that survey fleet that escaped early start an activation cascade?

PS - Since I phrased it as an "either/or" question, I assume the answer will be something completely different :-)
As Erik mentioned, the Octopi were originally played by my son. He was very young at the time though so he couldn't stay interested and I took them over. The Bugs were added as an extra player race at some point to provide a serious threat. I think it was sometime between turn 20 and turn 40.

Steve
 

Offline waresky

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Re: Trans-Newtonian Campaign - Part 11
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2009, 09:09:04 AM »
When ur "game" (game are a simplicistic word:D..i think "State-Of-the-Art" in Sci-Fi game) reach the crazyest "1 billions System Star" explored...am fear we encounter 10000 NPR's around...and ALL are hostile:DDD..poor SOLOMANI...
But the point are:am a Q6600 Core...and am fear arent so power for maintenance 1.000.000.000.000 of Solar Systems:)
 

Offline Randy

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Re: Trans-Newtonian Campaign - Part 11
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2009, 09:12:21 AM »
waresky said: "But the point are:am a Q6600 Core...and am fear arent so power for maintenance 1.000.000.000.000 of Solar Systems:)"

It wouldn't matter if you had 8 cores, 160 GOB of ram (or more). You will never be able to get to 1 billion stars in Aurora. I seriously doubt that you could even get to 100,000 systems.

  Access has a built in fixed limit of 2 GB for the database. And since Aurora is using Access database, this limit applie to Aurora.

  Being conservative, allow 1KB for a star. Plus another 250 bytes per system body. Assume an average of 80 bodies per system (remember to include asteroids and comets and warp points). This makes about 20-25 KB per system. _Not_ including anything about your empire (or any other empire), this makes the upper limit at about 85,000 systems before the database is full.

  Of course, exploring this many systems will take a wee bit o time :-)
 

Offline Michael Sandy

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Re: Trans-Newtonian Campaign - Part 11
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2009, 12:25:55 PM »
I was thinking at first that the "mindless AI attack" was implausible, but then I considered scenarios for it to be reasonable.

Consider any system with very strong government control over the military.  The government gives the military a mission and expects said units to do the mission, no excuses.  Failure simply results in the government bringing a bigger hammer.  In a system and a government where the ruling power has long had a monopoly on force, economy with that force isn't as important as ideological commitment to wielding that force in the way and manner directed.

In the case of the "Angels", given a mission to attack a planet belonging to racial abominations, arguing that the presence of a particular technology or ship would require the complete rethinking of tactics and strategy of the empire would be just a tad beyond the pay grade of the commanders of the fleet.

In terms of the AIs values, while the loss of the fleet would be a severe problem, calling into question the judgement of the leaders who ordered the fleet to move would be far worse, in the eyes of the decision makers.

This isn't just an AI politics thing either.  If a player empire were given an option that would effectively make it a NON-player empire, it would be very hard for that player to accept, even if the terms were greatly to the advantage of their race and empire.
 

Offline Randy

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Re: Trans-Newtonian Campaign - Part 11
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2009, 02:30:34 PM »
I never said mindless attack was not possible, just that I would vastly prefer intelligent attack.

  And throwing in the odd mindless attack helps keep ya on your toes :-)

  Just if all attacks are mindless, then it becomes pretty uninteresting (and unchallenging) pretty quick...


  (Damn BBCode wont turn on for me anymore either... :-(
 

Offline Erik Luken

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Re: Trans-Newtonian Campaign - Part 11
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2009, 03:03:02 PM »
Quote from: "Randy"
I never said mindless attack was not possible, just that I would vastly prefer intelligent attack.

  And throwing in the odd mindless attack helps keep ya on your toes :-(

What BBCodes are you trying to use?
 

Offline Father Tim

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Re: Trans-Newtonian Campaign - Part 11
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2009, 04:39:46 PM »
Quote from: "Erik Luken"
What BBCodes are you trying to use?


Quote, for one.  But more importantly, BBCode has been turned off for me.  As in, I am not even allowed the option of turning it on; I am simply informed "BBCode is OFF" and there's nothing I can do about it.

User Control Panel -> Board Preferences -> Edit Posting Defaults -> Enable BBCode by Default  is set to 'Yes' but some sort of global board (or maybe thread) setting is preventing non-moderators from using BBCode.
 

Offline sloanjh

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Re: Trans-Newtonian Campaign - Part 11
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2009, 10:40:10 PM »
Quote from: "Father Tim"
Quote from: "Erik Luken"
What BBCodes are you trying to use?


Quote, for one.  But more importantly, BBCode has been turned off for me.  As in, I am not even allowed the option of turning it on; I am simply informed "BBCode is OFF" and there's nothing I can do about it.

User Control Panel -> Board Preferences -> Edit Posting Defaults -> Enable BBCode by Default  is set to 'Yes' but some sort of global board (or maybe thread) setting is preventing non-moderators from using BBCode.

This is the same problem I had a few days back, also in one of these campaign threads (the one where Steve lost two scout ships in rapid succession).  I was about to say "this thread", but noticed that it's now on.  It's definitely thread specific - I haven't had problems in other threads.  

John
 

Offline Randy

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Re: Trans-Newtonian Campaign - Part 11
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2009, 10:55:24 PM »
Quote from: "Erik Luken"
What BBCodes are you trying to use?

Trying to quote...

 Seems to be fixed now... :-)
 

 

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