FAC Designs

[welchbloke (OP)]

U mean for FAC yes? (my Gunboat r some different in concept and build a normal engines,not "GB" fastest and monster-fuel consume:DD)
There r very many good Naval Designers than me..but my FAC and Gunboat r mainly for System Defence Squadroon pourpouse,so am not build..a "dedicated" tender for this class,ive 3 mainly Squadroon (with tender):
Cruiser,Carrier,Escort.

One day or another i try to build an "tender" who can take inside (on hangar) the entirely FAC-1000 tons class,probably become very big Class ship for those objective.

But an idea ive: Passive and Active sensors array very powerful must mount up an AEW dedicated FAC,so u can support closely ur FAC squadroon,tender MUST remain on backward,with some Close Escort,not FAC class.
in a "FAC Squadroon" my idea was putt: tender,FAC-AEWClass,5 CLE (tender's Escort dedicated) 2 tankers,10 FAC-Class boat,1 SupportVessel,1 Squadroon Collier (if ur FAC use missiles)

"Systems" are all inside various ships in this Squadroon.

Yes I did mean FAC .  I've got a tentative carrier/tender design that can take 3 FAC into a hanger.  What I'm trying to work out is, assuming that I'm not going to use the carrier as a jump tender, what the advantages of having the FACs in a hanger are.
The draft tender design is:

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Buccaneer class Gunboat Tender    10000 tons     795 Crew     1501.5 BP      TCS 200  TH 600  EM 0
3000 km/s     Armour 1-41     Shields 0-0     Sensors 5/5/0/0     Damage Control Rating 8     PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 100%    IFR: 1.4%    Maintenance Capacity 751 MSP    Max Repair 600 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 3000 tons    

Ion Engine E10 (10)    Power 60    Efficiency 1.00    Signature 60    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres    Range 90.0 billion km   (347 days at full power)

Active Search Sensor S600-R20/100 (1)     GPS 12000     Range 120.0m km    Resolution 20
Thermal Sensor TH5 (1)     Sensitivity 5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  5m km
Electromagnetic Sensor EM5 (1)     Sensitivity 5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  5m kmI've put a monstrous sensor on it to provide very long range detection prior to the FACs racing ahead with a Locust FAC to provide organic sensor support for the flotilla.  What I don't know is if there is a way of repairing damaged FACs whilst they are docked within the tender.

[waresky]

This my Newly revised FAC

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Bird Of Prey Type79 class Fast Attack Craft    1000 tons     69 Crew     179.9 BP      TCS 20  TH 160  EM 0
8000 km/s     Armour 1-8     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 6.6
Annual Failure Rate: 16%    IFR: 0.2%    Maintenance Capacity 56 MSP    Max Repair 40 MSP
Magazine 50    

GB Magneto-plasma Drive E40 (1)    Power 160    Efficiency 4.00    Signature 160    Armour 0    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 30,000 Litres    Range 13.5 billion km   (19 days at full power)

MB Missile Launcher 04-400 (5)    Missile Size 4    Rate of Fire 400
Cruise Anti-Ship FC40-R18/100 (1)     Range 21.6m km    Resolution 18
Cruise III (12)  Speed: 16000 km/s   End: 23.4 minutes    Range: 22.5m km   Warhead: 11    MR: 30    Size: 4

repairs,same as maintenance around orbit's planets,can with MAINTENANCE BAY (a big 1250? tons of this device..ive put 2 for maint 400tons-class my FIGHTER onboard Carriers..but for maint a 1000tons..zzz..u need 1250/200ton*5=1000tons-mainten facility..awwwwwww:DD..)

[waresky]

U can SHOW there teh maintenance MODULES:

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Terra Mk2 class Light Carrier    28000 tons     2353 Crew     4339 BP      TCS 560  TH 888  EM 0
2114 km/s     Armour 1-82     Shields 0-0     Sensors 30/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 68     PPV 12
Annual Failure Rate: 130%    IFR: 1.8%    Maintenance Capacity 4649 MSP    Max Repair 280 MSP
Flag Bridge    Hangar Deck Capacity 7000 tons     Magazine 1440    
Maintenance Modules: 2 module(s) capable of supporting ships of 400 tons

GeneralMagneto-plsm HDrive E3.8 (16)    Power 74    Efficiency 0.38    Signature 55.5    Armour 0    Exp 4%    Hyper Capable
Fuel Capacity 660,000 Litres    Range 111.6 billion km   (611 days at full power)

10cm Railgun V3/C4 (4x4)    Range 30,000km     TS: 6400 km/s     Power 3-4     RM 3    ROF 5        1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Railgun AM FC  48kkm-12800 (1)    Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 12800 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0

Arbalest II 1 (1440)  Speed: 18200 km/s   End: 3.3 minutes    Range: 3.6m km   Warhead: 3    MR: 19    Size: 1

Cruise 2 Active Sensor S160-R20/40 (1)     GPS 3200     Range 32.0m km    Resolution 20
Arbalest 2 Active Sensor S96-R1/100 (1)     GPS 96     Range 960k km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH5-30/40 (1)     Sensitivity 30     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  30m km

Strike Group
3x F-Elephant X3 Fighter-Scout   Speed: 5084 km/s    Size: 8.85
16x F-Arbalest Mk3 Fighter-bomber   Speed: 6382 km/s    Size: 7.05


[welchbloke (OP)]

U can SHOW there teh maintenance MODULES:

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Terra Mk2 class Light Carrier    28000 tons     2353 Crew     4339 BP      TCS 560  TH 888  EM 0
2114 km/s     Armour 1-82     Shields 0-0     Sensors 30/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 68     PPV 12
Annual Failure Rate: 130%    IFR: 1.8%    Maintenance Capacity 4649 MSP    Max Repair 280 MSP
Flag Bridge    Hangar Deck Capacity 7000 tons     Magazine 1440    
Maintenance Modules: 2 module(s) capable of supporting ships of 400 tons

GeneralMagneto-plsm HDrive E3.8 (16)    Power 74    Efficiency 0.38    Signature 55.5    Armour 0    Exp 4%    Hyper Capable
Fuel Capacity 660,000 Litres    Range 111.6 billion km   (611 days at full power)

10cm Railgun V3/C4 (4x4)    Range 30,000km     TS: 6400 km/s     Power 3-4     RM 3    ROF 5        1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Railgun AM FC  48kkm-12800 (1)    Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 12800 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0

Arbalest II 1 (1440)  Speed: 18200 km/s   End: 3.3 minutes    Range: 3.6m km   Warhead: 3    MR: 19    Size: 1

Cruise 2 Active Sensor S160-R20/40 (1)     GPS 3200     Range 32.0m km    Resolution 20
Arbalest 2 Active Sensor S96-R1/100 (1)     GPS 96     Range 960k km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH5-30/40 (1)     Sensitivity 30     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  30m km

Strike Group
3x F-Elephant X3 Fighter-Scout   Speed: 5084 km/s    Size: 8.85
16x F-Arbalest Mk3 Fighter-bomber   Speed: 6382 km/s    Size: 7.05


Duh! of course

[waresky]

A FAC Carrier:)..hangar AND maintenance for 5 of them..(zzz..check if u can design MORE little)

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Eagle Mk1 class FAC Carrier Light    28000 tons     2628 Crew     5318 BP      TCS 560  TH 777  EM 0
1850 km/s     Armour 1-82     Shields 0-0     Sensors 30/30/0/0     Damage Control Rating 27     PPV 30
Annual Failure Rate: 232%    IFR: 3.2%    Maintenance Capacity 3205 MSP    Max Repair 1400 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 5000 tons     Magazine 540    
Maintenance Modules: 5 module(s) capable of supporting ships of 1000 tons

GeneralMagneto-plsm HDrive E3.8 (14)    Power 74    Efficiency 0.38    Signature 55.5    Armour 0    Exp 4%    Hyper Capable
Fuel Capacity 420,000 Litres    Range 71.1 billion km   (444 days at full power)

10cm Railgun V3/C4 (10x4)    Range 30,000km     TS: 6400 km/s     Power 3-4     RM 3    ROF 5        1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Railgun AM FC  48kkm-12800 (1)    Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 12800 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0
TFRT  PB-1 AR-3 (2)     Total Power Output 48    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Cruise III (135)  Speed: 16000 km/s   End: 23.4 minutes    Range: 22.5m km   Warhead: 11    MR: 30    Size: 4

Planetary ASS-S800-R40/40 (1)     GPS 32000     Range 320.0m km    Resolution 40
Arbalest 2 Active Sensor S96-R1/100 (1)     GPS 96     Range 960k km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH5-30/40 (1)     Sensitivity 30     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  30m km
EM Detection Sensor EM5-30/100 (1)     Sensitivity 30     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  30m km

ECM 20

In main Battle Fleet ive 3 type of tenders..(ive build 3 Tender 28000 class..for Carrier Squadroon Duty) so am well prepared for BUILD..this newly monster..

[welchbloke (OP)]

Updated Buccanneer GB-Tender:

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Buccaneer class Gunboat Tender    17250 tons     1485 Crew     2624.5 BP      TCS 345  TH 720  EM 0
2086 km/s     Armour 1-59     Shields 0-0     Sensors 5/5/0/0     Damage Control Rating 8     PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 297%    IFR: 4.1%    Maintenance Capacity 1761 MSP    Max Repair 600 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 3000 tons    
Maintenance Modules: 5 module(s) capable of supporting ships of 1000 tons

Ion Engine E10 (12)    Power 60    Efficiency 1.00    Signature 60    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres    Range 52.2 billion km   (289 days at full power)

Active Search Sensor S600-R20/100 (1)     GPS 12000     Range 120.0m km    Resolution 20
Thermal Sensor TH5 (1)     Sensitivity 5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  5m km
Electromagnetic Sensor EM5 (1)     Sensitivity 5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  5m km


[waresky]

U note the ours mainly differnce,between me and u..am play in Roleplaying posture,so an "carriers" for me,must have pointdefemce (and ive 10 rails,so mass grew up) then some maintenance..and others mass....

and am loving number of "Fire team" (form USA's doctrine) so my FAC group r 5 FAC's..zz..and mass speed grew up..Amen:D

Good ur design,am like it.Light,speedy,and versatile..but caution!..ive encounter 3 ALiens,2 with missiles,1 not..and 1 are hostile..ive lost an CG in Aliens Home's planet approach..because my SQuad Admiral was too stupid and too un-expert..the him Escorts r on entry jump point..and CG fall under enemy missile without defence.

try to put onboard at least 1 or 2 Railguns systems:)

[Charlie Beeler]

Both of you do realize that maintenance modules require a colony to use don't you?  They're intended as an orbital supplemental system in the same vein as terraforming and asteroid mining modules.  What they are not is a mobile shipyard.  So far Steve has not added a system that will allow one ship to work on another away from colony support.

[schroeam]

You are correct, but I believe that they will produce maintenance supplies, with the necessary minerals available, which will allow the ship to perform it's own repairs as long as it has a damage control unit.  Smaller ships without the DC module are SOL.  It's kind of a middle ground so you don't necessarily have to send all your ships back to a shipyard for repairs.  At least this is how I remember they were supposed to work.

Adam.

[Charlie Beeler]

My point being that maintenance modules are for all pratical purposes a waste of space on warships.  As part of ship intented for forward logistical support they have valid function.  The last thing a carrier needs to do is tie itself to a colony cranking out maintenance supplies.

[Charlie Beeler]

What systems would you consider necessary for Gunboat Tender?

Hanger space for it's complement of GB's of course.
Good fuel reserves.  Ammo bunkers if the GB's are missile armed.  Extra maintenance supplies.  

The basic role of a tender, or carrier for that matter, is to function as a forward rearm, refuel, resupply point (FARP).

After that, if there is mass available, armor, point defense(with appropriate sensors suites).  Flag bridge for task force command.

Long range detection should be done by a dedicated fleet scout class.  Or at least a scout class of GB or fighter.

If and when Steve adds a system for forward repair functions, then those might be added to the basics list.  Definetly belongs to the secondary list.

[Erik L]

As mentioned, ample fuel and ammo. MSP are good too.

A maintenance unit in a ship I'd relegate to a support ship, not the tender/carrier itself. Certain functions should be kept in the fleet train, bulk ammo supplies, bulk fuel, major repair facilities. The carrier/tender should carry supplies necessary for an extended combat engagement. The tankers, colliers and DSR's (deep space repair) should remain in a relatively SAFE region to be called forward.

For a good book about DSR's, check out Elizabeth Moon's Once A Hero.

[welchbloke (OP)]

Both of you do realize that maintenance modules require a colony to use don't you?  They're intended as an orbital supplemental system in the same vein as terraforming and asteroid mining modules.  What they are not is a mobile shipyard.  So far Steve has not added a system that will allow one ship to work on another away from colony support.

The answer is, yes and no  :oops:
My original intention was to have a mobile FARP so my latest revision of the GB Tender is:

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Buccaneer class Gunboat Tender    14000 tons     973 Crew     1917.5 BP      TCS 280  TH 720  EM 0
2571 km/s     Armour 1-51     Shields 0-0     Sensors 5/5/0/0     Damage Control Rating 6     PPV 24
Annual Failure Rate: 261%    IFR: 3.6%    Maintenance Capacity 3514 MSP    Max Repair 600 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 3000 tons     Magazine 250    

Ion Engine E10 (12)    Power 60    Efficiency 1.00    Signature 60    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 1,000,000 Litres    Range 128.6 billion km   (578 days at full power)

Twin Gauss Cannon R1-100 Turret (1x2)    Range 10,000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 1    ROF 5        1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S03 16-7200 (1)    Max Range: 32,000 km   TS: 7200 km/s     69 37 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

GB Missile #3 (250)  Speed: 11000 km/s   End: 13.6 minutes    Range: 9m km   Warhead: 1    MR: 13    Size: 1

Active Search Sensor S600-R20/100 (1)     GPS 12000     Range 120.0m km    Resolution 20
Thermal Sensor TH5 (1)     Sensitivity 5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  5m km
Electromagnetic Sensor EM5 (1)     Sensitivity 5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  5m km


[Charlie Beeler]

Both of you do realize that maintenance modules require a colony to use don't you?  They're intended as an orbital supplemental system in the same vein as terraforming and asteroid mining modules.  What they are not is a mobile shipyard.  So far Steve has not added a system that will allow one ship to work on another away from colony support.

The answer is, yes and no  :oops:
My original intention was to have a mobile FARP so my latest revision of the GB Tender is:

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Buccaneer class Gunboat Tender    14000 tons     973 Crew     1917.5 BP      TCS 280  TH 720  EM 0
2571 km/s     Armour 1-51     Shields 0-0     Sensors 5/5/0/0     Damage Control Rating 6     PPV 24
Annual Failure Rate: 261%    IFR: 3.6%    Maintenance Capacity 3514 MSP    Max Repair 600 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 3000 tons     Magazine 250    

Ion Engine E10 (12)    Power 60    Efficiency 1.00    Signature 60    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 1,000,000 Litres    Range 128.6 billion km   (578 days at full power)

Twin Gauss Cannon R1-100 Turret (1x2)    Range 10,000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 1    ROF 5        1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S03 16-7200 (1)    Max Range: 32,000 km   TS: 7200 km/s     69 37 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

GB Missile #3 (250)  Speed: 11000 km/s   End: 13.6 minutes    Range: 9m km   Warhead: 1    MR: 13    Size: 1

Active Search Sensor S600-R20/100 (1)     GPS 12000     Range 120.0m km    Resolution 20
Thermal Sensor TH5 (1)     Sensitivity 5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  5m km
Electromagnetic Sensor EM5 (1)     Sensitivity 5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  5m km


I think your going to kind that design a lot more sustainable.  

Your PD suite is a little light for my taste.  But then again I modified my database to bring the GC's into the kind of configuration I like.  As Steve designed them effective GC's are heavy.

Again just my opinion, I'd reduce the size of the actives to being support for the point defense and not long range detection (base resolution and a detection range at least 200k but no greater that 500k).  The reason being you don't want to reveal the motherships location if you can help it.  The role of long range detection is best served by dedicated fleet scouts that are out away from the main body. YMMV

[Charlie Beeler]

Of course I've violated some of my own advise with this design.

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Belknap class Gunboat Tender    40000 tons     3686 Crew     4884.4 BP      TCS 800  TH 1260  EM 0
2100 km/s     Armour 1-104     Shields 0-0     Sensors 25/25/0/0     Damage Control Rating 146     PPV 30
Annual Failure Rate: 87%    IFR: 1.2%    Maintenance Capacity 11141 MSP    Max Repair 150 MSP
Flag Bridge    Hangar Deck Capacity 10000 tons     Magazine 1500    

Nuclear Pulse Engine E9.9 (mil) (40)    Power 42    Efficiency 0.99    Signature 31.5    Armour 0    Exp 7%
Fuel Capacity 1,125,000 Litres    Range 51.1 billion km   (281 days at full power)

Quad Gauss Cannon R1-100 Turret (6x4)    Range 10,000km     TS: 4000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 1    ROF 5        1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S08 20-4000 (6)    Max Range: 40,000 km   TS: 4000 km/s     75 50 25 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

SSM mk1 (1500)  Speed: 9800 km/s   End: 3.1 minutes    Range: 1.8m km   Warhead: 1    MR: 10    Size: 1

Active Search Sensor S20-R20/100 (1)     GPS 400     Range 4.0m km    Resolution 20
Thermal Sensor TH5-25/100 (1)     Sensitivity 25     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  25m km
EM Detection Sensor EM5-25/100 (1)     Sensitivity 25     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  25m km

In no way is this a best design.  The Federation hasn't even left it's own system yet for various role playing reasons.  This beast supports 10 of the Lexington C's I posted earlier and is accompanied by 2 of the Spruance B scout sloops for long range snooping.  Dedicated close escorts have not been designed/built yet as well.  

I've made 2 segnificant changes to the database.  The first is that turret tracking speeds have been set to 4x the same level of beam fire control speed so that turrets can match max capabilities of the fire control.  

The second is to reduce the functional size of Gauss Cannons.  There are no GC's greater than 1hs.  The percentages of the 1hs thru 6hs GC's have been transferred to the lower sizes making 1hs GC 100%.

These changes fit the way I play and probably are not the right changes for most players.  Making baseline changes like this can be very imbalancing, time will tell if it has in my came.

These changes let the Federation deploy, in my mind, effect gun fighters that can cover the GB's and the fleet.  4 10K carriers have been built that have 18 fighters each.

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Iowa class Carrier    10000 tons     703 Crew     1231.4 BP      TCS 200  TH 315  EM 0
2100 km/s     Armour 1-41     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 20     PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 80%    IFR: 1.1%    Maintenance Capacity 1770 MSP    Max Repair 150 MSP
Flag Bridge    Hangar Deck Capacity 5000 tons    

Nuclear Pulse Engine E9.9 (mil) (10)    Power 42    Efficiency 0.99    Signature 31.5    Armour 0    Exp 7%
Fuel Capacity 425,000 Litres    Range 77.3 billion km   (425 days at full power)

Strike Group
18x Forrestal Fighter   Speed: 4363 km/s    Size: 5.5

This also not an ideal carrier.  It 's purely a mobile airfield/FARP for the Forrestal fighters.

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Forrestal class Fighter    275 tons     22 Crew     27.6 BP      TCS 5.5  TH 18  EM 0
4363 km/s     Armour 1-3     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 2
Annual Failure Rate: 55%    IFR: 0.8%    Maintenance Capacity 0 MSP    Max Repair 6 MSP

FTR Nuclear Pulse Engine E990 (1)    Power 24    Efficiency 99.00    Signature 18    Armour 0    Exp 35%
Fuel Capacity 10,000 Litres    Range 0.7 billion km   (42 hours at full power)

Gauss Cannon R1-100 (2)    Range 10,000km     TS: 4363 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 1    ROF 5        1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S01 10-1000 (FTR) (1)    Max Range: 20,000 km   TS: 4000 km/s     50 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Active Search Sensor S5-R1/100 (1)     GPS 5     Range 50k km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a fighter for production and combat purposes

It will be interesting to see what these can do when the Federation finally ventures out.  Before that happens the close escorts will be designed and built.  Probably the true fleet scout as well.