Author Topic: New Alien Arrival (Spoiler)  (Read 4288 times)

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Offline welchbloke

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Re: New Alien Arrival (Spoiler)
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2010, 03:53:41 AM »
Quote from: "Beersatron"
Could somebody explain how the Absorption shields work? Do they recharge until you have knocked them flat and then that is it, they never come back up? I am fighting some Invaders now and they are taking everything I can throw at them - scary biscuits :)
They are similar to Power Absorption Panels in SFB (no use if you have never played SFB of course!).  Essentially, they absorb damage from weapons until they fill up and all damage passes through them.  I think some damage 'leaks' before the shields are full.  The value of the absorption panel is how much damage it can take until 'full'.  Just to complicate matters they radiate damage thereby freeing up damage absorption potential.  I'm not sure what the exact radiation rate is but it pretty much negates sniping with low damage weapons at long range.  The only 2 tactics that have been reported to work so far (there are probably others) are a massive alpha strike that drops or seriously degrades the shields (overwhelm tactic) or using mesons (bypass tactic).  Both tactics have drawbacks and the bypass tactic requires a large fleet to take losses whilst closing to optimal range.
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Offline Brian

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Re: New Alien Arrival (Spoiler)
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2010, 12:32:51 PM »
One other note is that the smallest absorbtion panel is 10 hull spaces.  While it can take a pounding it only takes 1 lucky hit to nock it out totally.  This assumes of course that your damage is getting through anyway which probably only applies to mesons, but it can make a difference.

Brian
 

Offline Beersatron

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Re: New Alien Arrival (Spoiler)
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2010, 04:03:11 PM »
Cheers, figured that was happening, I haven't played SFB but read up on it to see if I could find a reference.

3 12800 ton DEs came through a WH 110m km from one of my colonies, I sent all my FACs (15 of them with 8 size-5 box launchers) to alpha one of them and see what would happen. Got shield radiation reports but that is it.

So I brought up 2nd Fleet which has 6 CAs can dish out 10 size-5 missiles in first salvo (4 launchers are box) and 6 there after for about 8 reloads.

[spoiler:1nluv0s7]I cheated and looked in Developer mode, furthest into armor that I managed to penetrate was 6 rows out of the 10[/spoiler:1nluv0s7]

So, I had one last trick up my sleeve, 2 missile throwing PDCs on the colony plus a smaller wave of 2nd Generation FACs that just arrived. So I kited the DEs to my colony and once in range let loose.

Code: [Select]
Semmes II class Missile Base    11500 tons     1720 Crew     2004.8 BP      TCS 230  TH 0  EM 0
Armour 5-45     Sensors 1/252     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 150
Magazine 950    

PDC Size 5 Missile Launcher (30)    Missile Size 5    Rate of Fire 15
Anti Ship Missile Fire Control II (1)     Range 70.6m km    Resolution 20
Spectre Mk2 (190)  Speed: 25,000 km/s   End: 40m    Range: 60m km   WH: 6    Size: 5    TH: 216 / 130 / 65

Anti Ship Search Sensor II (1)     GPS 5040     Range 70.6m km    Resolution 20

ECCM-3 (1)         Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Planetary Defence Centre and can be pre-fabricated in 5 sections

Managed to kill one of the DEs and do armor damage to a second before ammo ran out. So I cheated and gave them a full reload since I hadn't stored any on this colony yet. Fired on the second target and just managed to kill it when ammo ran out again.

So I cheated again! Well, only slightly since I did have reloads for 2nd Fleet but not 100% (2nd Fleet is all first generation designs whilst the MB is 2nd Gen). Had 2nd Fleet advance, firing the 1st Gen missiles but not enough damage was getting through so I closed to my own AMM range and let rip with them too, finally killing the last DE.

So, I think I fired about 500 Mark 1 Spectre missiles (strength 5) and then 900 Mark 2 Spectre missiles (strength 6). Plus another couple hundred Mark 1 AMM missiles.

Since they were DEs they were intercepting quite a few of them and then my hit percentage was around 65% when they finally got through.

It took ~7900 damage to kill 3 12800 ton DEs .....

And now, the next wave of Invaders has arrived - 4x12800 tons and 6x3200 tons.

I have deployed my biggest and baddest Battleships (2 squadrons of 3 ships each) to the colony and also just completed another large PDC, plus ferried some reloads.

Code: [Select]
Forrest class Battleship    40000 tons     3851 Crew     10032.2 BP      TCS 800  TH 6093.75  EM 2700
10156 km/s     Armour 14-104     Shields 90-360     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 43     PPV 120
Annual Failure Rate: 297%    IFR: 4.1%    Maint Capacity 6740 MSP    Max Repair 252 MSP    Est Time: 3.75 Years
Flag Bridge    Magazine 1320    

Military MCF Drive (65)    Power 125    Fuel Use 60%    Signature 93.75    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 1,000,000 Litres    Range 75.0 billion km   (85 days at full power)
Epsilon Shields (30)   Total Fuel Cost  630 Litres per day

CIWS-200 (4x6)    Range 1000 km     TS: 20000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Size 5 Missile Launcher (24)    Missile Size 5    Rate of Fire 30
Anti Ship Missile Fire Control II (2)     Range 70.6m km    Resolution 20
Spectre Mk2 (264)  Speed: 25,000 km/s   End: 40m    Range: 60m km   WH: 6    Size: 5    TH: 216 / 130 / 65

Anti Ship Search Sensor II (1)     GPS 5040     Range 70.6m km    Resolution 20
Long Range Search Sensor II (1)     GPS 16800     Range 235.2m km    Resolution 200

ECCM-3 (2)         ECM 30

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

Code: [Select]
Rommel II class Planetary Defence Centre    15100 tons     1645 Crew     3115.6 BP      TCS 302  TH 0  EM 0
Armour 10-54     Sensors 1/252     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 116
Flag Bridge    Magazine 1716    

PDC Size 10 Missile Launcher (10)    Missile Size 10    Rate of Fire 30
PDC Size 1 Missile Launcher (16)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 5
Point Defence Missile Fire Control II (4)     Range 3.5m km    Resolution 1
Anti Ship Missile Fire Control II (1)     Range 70.6m km    Resolution 20
Phoenix Mk2 (716)  Speed: 62,500 km/s   End: 0.8m    Range: 3m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 604 / 362 / 181
Hell Lance Mk2 (100)  Speed: 25,000 km/s   End: 40m    Range: 60m km   WH: 12    Size: 10    TH: 216 / 130 / 65

Point Defence Search Sensor II (1)     GPS 252     Range 3.5m km    Resolution 1
Long Range Search Sensor II (1)     GPS 16800     Range 235.2m km    Resolution 200
Anti Ship Search Sensor II (1)     GPS 5040     Range 70.6m km    Resolution 20

ECCM-3 (1)         Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Planetary Defence Centre and can be pre-fabricated in 7 sections

I had to send 2nd Fleet home to refuel, resupply and overhaul. Also sent the 1st Gen FACs home but managed to get my 2nd Gen FACs back with some new additions.

Code: [Select]
Prince of Wales II class Fast Attack Craft    1000 tons     73 Crew     262 BP      TCS 20  TH 216  EM 0
14400 km/s     Armour 1-8     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 6
Annual Failure Rate: 8%    IFR: 0.1%    Maint Capacity 164 MSP    Max Repair 90 MSP    Est Time: 6.25 Years
Magazine 40    

FAC MCF Drive (1)    Power 287.5    Fuel Use 780%    Signature 215.625    Armour 0    Exp 36%
Fuel Capacity 100,000 Litres    Range 23.1 billion km   (18 days at full power)

Size 5 Box Launcher (8)    Missile Size 5    Hangar Reload 37.5 minutes    MF Reload 6.2 hours
Anti Ship Missile Fire Control II (1)     Range 70.6m km    Resolution 20
Spectre Mk2 (8)  Speed: 25,000 km/s   End: 40m    Range: 60m km   WH: 6    Size: 5    TH: 216 / 130 / 65

ECM 10

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

1st Fleet is stationed on Earth because the system beside Sol had a WH for over 10 years and the 2 times I went in for a look I detected 4 separate groups of active sensors.

This is the game that I was writing my fiction on. I stopped writing after their was a large lull in the action and I had to turtle up because I ran into another WH, blocking my expansion. I RP'd a massive military buildup with the Terrans thinking the Invaders/WHs are The Menace - which is the only reason I have the PDCs and BBs that I do have and is the only reason I haven't been wiped out.

Now, after saying all that, I think the Invaders are way way way overpowered and a game killer =/

[spoiler:1nluv0s7]I looked in Developer Mode, there must be about 50 Invader ships in my game atm - they are huge and I highly doubt I could take even 20% of them on. The 2 NPRs in my game would be smashed by just one fleet of 3 DEs[/spoiler:1nluv0s7]
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: New Alien Arrival (Spoiler)
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2010, 04:10:52 PM »
Quote from: "Beersatron"
Now, after saying all that, I think the Invaders are way way way overpowered and a game killer
I think they are overpowered too based on game reports and I will be toning down their numbers :). You can switch them off individually in v5.20. In v5.14 you can only switch them off by turning off precursors.

[spoiler:3vegysa8]By far your best your best chance against them is using beam weapons in a jump point defence. Plasma Torps are powerful but relatively slow-firing[/spoiler:3vegysa8]

Steve
 

Offline Beersatron

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Re: New Alien Arrival (Spoiler)
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2010, 04:56:13 PM »
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
Quote from: "Beersatron"
Now, after saying all that, I think the Invaders are way way way overpowered and a game killer
I think they are overpowered too based on game reports and I will be toning down their numbers :)[/spoiler:1dkml70f]
 

Offline waresky

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Re: New Alien Arrival (Spoiler)
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2010, 05:49:37 AM »
ive been abandon "Missile warfare" ,now am build Main Battle ship with "BEam" with Destroyer Escort powerful anti-missile only.

And this "new" (some others use this tactics from months) doctrine are winner choice.

But..need VERY powerful engine,high level Armor coverage (+30) and very powerful Beam tech.

But r possible..

[spoiler:3kpj0tpm]But not toward "Invaders" this being are too powerful,are TOO many ships and too big..:D[/spoiler:3kpj0tpm]
 

Offline welchbloke

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Re: New Alien Arrival (Spoiler)
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2010, 05:53:41 AM »
Quote from: "waresky"

[spoiler:14pqqjvs]But not toward "Invaders" this being are too powerful,are TOO many ships and too big..:D[/spoiler:14pqqjvs]
[spoiler:14pqqjvs]How many Invader ships are spawning?  I've never seen them in groups larger than 3.[/spoiler:14pqqjvs]
Welchbloke
 

Offline Hawkeye

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Re: New Alien Arrival (Spoiler)
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2010, 12:56:25 PM »
Quote from: "welchbloke"
Quote from: "waresky"

[spoiler:1f1q6tjh]But not toward "Invaders" this being are too powerful,are TOO many ships and too big..:D[/spoiler:1f1q6tjh]
[spoiler:1f1q6tjh]How many Invader ships are spawning?  I've never seen them in groups larger than 3.[/spoiler:1f1q6tjh]

[attachment=0:1f1q6tjh]Scrshot #2 [05.07.2010 19.46.19] DerGrosseSchrittOdtOpenofficeOrgWriter.jpg[/attachment:1f1q6tjh]

The Wipemuck Plasma BB is a 32.000t ship, armed with 8 x Class-32 Plasma Torpedos, Strength 750 shields with a recharge rate of 170

The Muckcom is a ships class, I haven´t encountered so far.

So, at least a 8-ship squadron is possible

Note: This is in the homesystem of an allied NPR (which is doomed, I fear, even though I am mobilizing my mobile fleet right now to come to their aid).
Ralph Hoenig, Germany
 

Offline welchbloke

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Re: New Alien Arrival (Spoiler)
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2010, 01:10:29 PM »
Assuming a linear relationship between shield size, that makes the Muckcom class 64 000 tonnes  :shock:
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Offline Hawkeye

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Re: New Alien Arrival (Spoiler)
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2010, 01:59:07 PM »
Update: Getting in a bit closer, I spoted another 6 ships. The Clodlunk Class is a 12.800t "cruiser", armed with 20 (Class-6 ?) Plasma Torpedos and strength-320 shields with a recharge rate of 393.

[attachment=0:3c4b6w5a]Scrshot #3 [05.07.2010 20.48.30] SystemMap7thSeptember20801926.jpg[/attachment:3c4b6w5a]


Ok, my fleet is _not_ going to be able to stop them. I am torn between sending it in regardless (rollplaying political preasure and "it´s a question of honor" stuff) and calling it back in terror, trying to bolster the defense of sol.
Ralph Hoenig, Germany
 

Offline welchbloke

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Re: New Alien Arrival (Spoiler)
« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2010, 02:18:42 PM »
Perhaps send some older ships that you could afford to lose, whilst keeping the best back for the defence of Sol.  This is the situation the RAF faced in 1940, do they continue to send fighter sqns into France peicemeal or do they hold them back for the defence of the UK.  Ultimately, a minimum threshold was reached and the rest were kept back for the defence of the UK.
Welchbloke
 

Offline Starkiller

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Re: New Alien Arrival (Spoiler)
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2010, 08:12:31 PM »
I just had the wormhole appear in a deadend system I was geosurveying, at the edge of Terran Space. Fortunately, the wormhole was on the opposite side
of the system from Gamma and the JP. I ordered Gamma back to the JP. What am I dealing with here? If half of what I hear is true, do I even have a chance?

One major question though. Does the wormhole stay in the system, or does it move to other systems. I'm thinking of a JP defense as even my 25cm lasers have
a 5 second ROF. How effective are lasers? I hear missles are problematical. :)

Eric
 

Offline welchbloke

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Re: New Alien Arrival (Spoiler)
« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2010, 01:18:12 AM »
Quote from: "Starkiller"
I just had the wormhole appear in a deadend system I was geosurveying, at the edge of Terran Space. Fortunately, the wormhole was on the opposite side
of the system from Gamma and the JP. I ordered Gamma back to the JP. What am I dealing with here? If half of what I hear is true, do I even have a chance?
As the WH is not in a key system, then regardless of your tech, you have a chance.  You are dealing with a race that can deploy 64000 tonne, 10000 km/s max speed, plasma torpedo firing monsters.  They have a shield system that absorbs damage (allowing some to leak through an hit their level 10 armour) until the shields are full, then you just have to punch a hole in the armour  :)
Eric[/quote]
The WH moves over time and can appear in any surveyed system in the game.  Can't comment on laser effectiveness as I have never used them in combat against the Invaders.  It has been reported that the Invaders can appear several million km away from the WH when they jump in.  MIssiles do work you just need to use overwhelming salvos.  Another technique you may wish to consider is sitting on the only JP in the system.  The Invaders fire at the largest target (normally), so if you can determine who is targeted get them to jump out and in.  The plasma torpedoes self-destruct if they lose lock on a target.  I did this in one of my battles with the Invaders and I only lost a single ship when I moved off the JP and attempted to pursue.
Welchbloke
 

Offline lastverb

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Re: New Alien Arrival (Spoiler)
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2010, 06:40:47 AM »
I have encountered invaders for the first time. They had a neutral status at start and wh apperead 1j from sol (didnt know wh was a new aliens then) and i have just started colonising first world in another system. One 12800 ton ship orbited earth (neutral status so far) and another smaller ship passed from one jp to another in outer system.
I have started communication attempts that lasted few months. They turn hostile after failure and started getting range. I had just one frigate squadron on earth (5000 tons 1x jump ship with 90 box launchers 2x gauss escorts with 80 boxes each and 2x missile frigs with 20 normal launchers). All missiles are size 2 with strength 4 warhead. I thought i have some firepower so just shot all of 250 boxes with no visible effect, so my pdcs helped with 5x18 launchers. I destroyed that single ship when boxes reloaded. Invader was shooting my freighters all the time so i survived with just 10 lost freighters (they were loading mines atm) and out of missiles.
I had no problem with detecting torpedos on active, even shot some with gauss and AMMs from pdc, but destroyed only one (small chance of hit and THEY SEEM ARMORED). So they will be back, they started surveying systems i dont know (no nprs ingame so far) AND THEY HAVE IRAN THEME :D that one 64k tons monster would eat my whole fleet on breakfast (just another frig squad, a 10k tons missile destro squad, and nearly build 12.5k tons l.cruiser squad mainly armed with big railguns and some boxes).
I started to love that boxes when had to fight star swarm near ideal habitable planet - they weight just 15tons per launcher with single missile and no magazine needed (i could get 3-4 missiles with magazine same size)
 

Offline welchbloke

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Re: New Alien Arrival (Spoiler)
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2010, 07:27:13 AM »
Quote from: "lastverb"
I have encountered invaders for the first time. They had a neutral status at start and wh apperead 1j from sol (didnt know wh was a new aliens then) and i have just started colonising first world in another system. One 12800 ton ship orbited earth (neutral status so far) and another smaller ship passed from one jp to another in outer system.
I have started communication attempts that lasted few months. They turn hostile after failure and started getting range. I had just one frigate squadron on earth (5000 tons 1x jump ship with 90 box launchers 2x gauss escorts with 80 boxes each and 2x missile frigs with 20 normal launchers). All missiles are size 2 with strength 4 warhead. I thought i have some firepower so just shot all of 250 boxes with no visible effect, so my pdcs helped with 5x18 launchers. I destroyed that single ship when boxes reloaded. Invader was shooting my freighters all the time so i survived with just 10 lost freighters (they were loading mines atm) and out of missiles.
I had no problem with detecting torpedos on active, even shot some with gauss and AMMs from pdc, but destroyed only one (small chance of hit and THEY SEEM ARMORED). So they will be back, they started surveying systems i dont know (no nprs ingame so far) AND THEY HAVE IRAN THEME :twisted:
Welchbloke
 

 

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