Author Topic: Questions of the not quite capable.  (Read 7275 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Zed 6

  • Sub-Lieutenant
  • ******
  • Z
  • Posts: 128
  • Thanked: 4 times
Re: Questions of the not quite capable.
« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2011, 08:52:02 PM »
Speaking of empire wealth or lack thereof.
Event Type - Empire in Debt
Event - Racial Wealth is now negative. Production will be reduced  accordingly until the debt is repaid.

I am now back in the black but is there anywhere where the actual debt left is shown?
 

Offline Erik L

  • Administrator
  • Admiral of the Fleet
  • *****
  • Posts: 5658
  • Thanked: 372 times
  • Forum Admin
  • Discord Username: icehawke
  • 2020 Supporter 2020 Supporter : Donate for 2020
    2022 Supporter 2022 Supporter : Donate for 2022
    Gold Supporter Gold Supporter : Support the forums with a Gold subscription
    2021 Supporter 2021 Supporter : Donate for 2021
Re: Questions of the not quite capable.
« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2011, 08:57:50 PM »
Speaking of empire wealth or lack thereof.
Event Type - Empire in Debt
Event - Racial Wealth is now negative. Production will be reduced  accordingly until the debt is repaid.

I am now back in the black but is there anywhere where the actual debt left is shown?

Title bar of the Economics screen

Offline jseah

  • Captain
  • **********
  • j
  • Posts: 490
Re: Questions of the not quite capable.
« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2011, 09:36:30 PM »
I've figured that making financial centers is a poor idea.  

Each financial center produces wealth equal to 1 million population.  
This is very very small.  

My standard game opening policy now is to research 3 or 4 levels of Expand Civilian Economy.  (I don't start with any)
 - Not only does this give you more free infrastructure (which always runs out), it also gives you, indirectly, a bigger private sector fleet which will mean you can reduce the number of government freighters.  
 - In fact, RP for RP, the free infrastructure from a 1billion pop planet is worth more in bp per year than the equivalent CF build rate increase. 

-------------------------------

Just fought my first battle against ships that shot back.  
A perfect victory at that, they didn't even scratch the paint.  XD
 - Although I had 150ktons to their 81.95ktons (111.4ktons if you count their defensive bases)

Get ECCM and keep getting it.  Even if you can't afford ECM, ECCM will save your ships.  
They had ECM 40, I had neither.  
In fact, I will now put more sensor tech into ECCM than any other sensor tech.  

Our missile ranges were similar (~60mkm), but I could only fire at 38mkm.  Futhermore, their ships outpace mine by a mere 300km/s, small but enough to keep the range open.  I can't approach to shoot them and I can't run away.  
For a long while I thought I was going to lose my fleet, until they ran out of missiles and started to close.  Which turned out to be fatal for them.  (my fleet did out-weigh them by... alot.  )

Too bad for them, my AMM frigates had enough ammo.  I had a 45% hitrate (AMMs being 25% faster than their missiles) and used 2v1 interception which resulted in 0 getting through (I have no point blank defence).  Actually, 1 missile got through out of roughly 200 to 300 shot at me but it somehow just disappeared when it reached my ships, presumably it somehow missed (although I don't know how at 40kkm/s missile can miss a 5750km/s ship).  
Observation: You get a number of interception chances for each missile salvo...
First intercept occurs at your AMM launch range * your AMM speed / their missile speed.  Following intercepts follow a similar formula except you substitute AMM launch range for the previous intercept position.  
This meant that interceptions happened more often as missiles approached my ships.  And with a 6mkm AMM launch, with roughly similar missile speeds, this is around 4-5 interception chances.  
With 45% hit rate and 2v1, this means with 4 interceptions only 1 missile in 120 gets through.  With 5 interceptions, only 1 in 395 gets through.  
Therefore, AMM range is actually very very important and is absolutely critical if you're solely relying on AMMs for defence (like I am).  Each interception chance drastically decreases the number of leakers and even a 5% increase in hitrate would result in needing far less AMMs as well as even fewer leakers.  (+5% hitrate on my missiles would mean in the 4 interception case, only 1 in 256 gets through!)

As for the ratio of missile defence needed, 20 missiles per wave at roughly 20 to 30 seconds between waves was totally blocked, with some additional room.  
My setup was 5 ships each with 10 size 1 missile launchers (10s reload) to 2 firecontrols.  6.1mkm range, 45% hitrate.  
Ammunition aside, I could have laid down 3v1 AMM fire and my launchers would reload fast enough to cope with the salvoes.  Initially I used 3v1, as my calculated hitrate was 28%.  Apparently crew grade bonus applies to interception chance!  Which then means that you want your highest grade bonuses on your AMM ships.  
My AS missiles had hitrates around 110 to 130% or so and needed no help.  Massive overkill in every launch, to the point that my "test" salvo meant to gauge their anti-missile defences actually wiped out their fleet.  


Summary of conclusions:
1. Get ECCM.  I needed it last year.  
1b. Get better engines.  This is often infeasible, but engine speed = life.  Overclocking engines is definitely worth the explosion chance and fuel use.  (I suspect their engine tech was actually 1 full level higher than mine, but I have +25% engine power)
2. AMM range and crew grade bonus is critical to maintaining impenetrable AMM defence.  
3. Bring a coiller full of AMMs if I can at all manage it.  I started with 2150 AMMs, I now have 945.  Way too close for comfort.  Especially since that is ALL the missile defence I have.  
4. I need to bring up my laser frigate design.  AMM defence will leak.  
 

Offline Zed 6

  • Sub-Lieutenant
  • ******
  • Z
  • Posts: 128
  • Thanked: 4 times
Re: Questions of the not quite capable.
« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2011, 09:52:38 PM »
Title bar of the Economics screen

Thanks. Can't see why I never paid any attention past the date.

Example  racial wealth 2005 (+28)

So that is my current wealth?  And (+28) is my excess that I can use before going negative?
 

Offline Ziusudra

  • Lt. Commander
  • ********
  • Z
  • Posts: 210
Re: Questions of the not quite capable.
« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2011, 10:08:56 PM »
The (+28) was the last change in your wealth. I don't know if it is for the last increment or the last construction cycle, though I would guess construction cycle.

So, you made more wealth than you spent in that time. When you spend more than you make the number is negative.

And yes, the 2005 is your current wealth.
 

Offline LtWarhound

  • Chief Petty Officer
  • ***
  • L
  • Posts: 47
Re: Questions of the not quite capable.
« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2011, 10:11:00 PM »
Quote from: jseah link=topic=3516. msg34329#msg34329 date=1304044590
1.  Get ECCM.   I needed it last year.   

Or, get longer range MFC.   My main ASM has a range of roughly 116m km (two stage, first stage slow with long endurance, submunitions fast with no endurance. )  I pair that up with a MFC with a 200m km range vs 5000 kt sized targets.   ECM-4?  Woop, my MFC now can't lock until I'm at 160m km to 140m km.   I've been banging heads with those same NPRs.   They make great salvage.

ECCM is not a priority for me.   And when I get it, and improve my missile ranges, my MFC is still good.   Future-proofed.
 

Offline jseah

  • Captain
  • **********
  • j
  • Posts: 490
Re: Questions of the not quite capable.
« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2011, 11:02:42 PM »
I'm partway to ECCM 4 already though, due to anticipating needing ECCM 6.  (wormhole off to one side of my only expansion route)

Also, doesn't ECM 40 mean without ECCM, you lose 40% of your MFC's range?  160 should end up at 96. 
(60 - 0.4 * 60 = 36, which is roughly right, since my MFCs are slightly longer ranged than my missiles and my final range was 38mkm)

Amazingly, shuffling some stuff around on my ship designs means I don't need to retool my yards.  They can build and refit the new design so long as I don't change the engines. 

EDIT: Not that I won't change the engines anyway.  The slightly more souped up engines will make my fleet speed higher than theirs, and with ECCM-40 to offset the range difference I will kick them around the block every time!
 

Offline Shoku (OP)

  • Petty Officer
  • **
  • S
  • Posts: 23
Re: Questions of the not quite capable.
« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2011, 03:47:21 PM »
So at 7 years I've got 500 factories, 22 labs, level 3 academy and 600k people on Earth. I don't think starting with twice the population is going to take me from 40 labs to 100+ and probably won't get me to 2k factories either. There's more instant tech points available but still I don't see it happening. I didn't even actually run out of cash before I expanded the economy so there weren't all that many setbacks.

Oh also at the 7 year mark
Sector Governor is 10% welath, 20% factory production, 15% mining, 10% logistics
Earth's governor is Factory production 20%, wealth 10%, mining 15%, xeno 10, logistics 10.

e: so I've lost another fight now. I ran into 3 ships and outnumbered them heavily. It looks like my missiles could have done the job if I wasn't so clueless about combat. They caught me right on the jump point into my own system so I probably didn't have much longer before I'd see them anyway. Being at point blank range they hit me fairly often with some 10 damage energy weapon and launched salvos of 13 AMMs at my ships for 1 damage a piece. The big delays on getting my missiles to fire gave them plenty of time to devastate me. I think only half of my ships even actually fired.

The second group that I just instant teched a few levels further to and wouldn't have realistically have been able to warp into their system fared just as poorly except that they managed to fire about twice as many missiles. This time I didn't actually do any damage though, which is kind of confusing given then significantly beefier warheads. I was trying those two stage ones though so point is obviously not the intention for them.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 06:01:39 PM by Shoku »
 

Offline jseah

  • Captain
  • **********
  • j
  • Posts: 490
Re: Questions of the not quite capable.
« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2011, 06:08:35 PM »
I think Sol starts are slower in general since you were probably duranium limited (I am, technically, but due to mining rate, not lack of duranium).  And dumping all my points into construction rate 25 helped alot. 

I should really try a real stars game sometime. 

Although I'm not sure why your governors aren't more skilled.  I mean, I'm at 10 years now of the same game and the guy I posted in the chat section is pretty awesome. 

I haven't had any problems getting good governors.  I just make sure they're all doing something and poof, I get good ones. 

EDIT: or actually, it might be due to your 5-day interval?  Perhaps skill increase is checked per interval. 
 - I really should try that.  Do a 8 hour construction interval game, compare with 30 day construction interval game.  Run for 3 months and check governor skills. 
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 06:10:19 PM by jseah »
 

Offline Narmio

  • Lieutenant
  • *******
  • N
  • Posts: 181
Re: Questions of the not quite capable.
« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2011, 09:00:07 PM »
EDIT: or actually, it might be due to your 5-day interval?  Perhaps skill increase is checked per interval. 
 - I really should try that.  Do a 8 hour construction interval game, compare with 30 day construction interval game.  Run for 3 months and check governor skills. 
This is what I suspect might be happening. The bonuses you seem to be getting are light years ahead of what I get out of similar timeframes - and I try to make sure all the semi-promising officers are doing something, even if it's just babysitting a rock I intend to mine one day.
 

Offline jseah

  • Captain
  • **********
  • j
  • Posts: 490
Re: Questions of the not quite capable.
« Reply #40 on: April 29, 2011, 09:40:06 PM »
This is what I suspect might be happening. The bonuses you seem to be getting are light years ahead of what I get out of similar timeframes - and I try to make sure all the semi-promising officers are doing something, even if it's just babysitting a rock I intend to mine one day.
That could be another one. 

I use ALL my officers.  Even if I have to post them to rocks which I will never use. 
I only ignore ground forces (who cares about them) and naval (never have enough ships until I start my military production, and then not enough officers). 
 

Offline Shoku (OP)

  • Petty Officer
  • **
  • S
  • Posts: 23
Re: Questions of the not quite capable.
« Reply #41 on: April 30, 2011, 03:22:43 AM »
Oh I definitely assign them all. In that game I had already run out of asteroids I intended to mine any time soon just making seats for them all.

I didn't manage to run out of any minerals anywhere. With the mining emphasis on the governors Earth managed to start running out of stuff to mine but I still have at least 15k of everything sitting in the stockpiles (and it felt like my mining on other rocks was really just beginning.)


But as for combat was I correct about the several minute delays on some of the ships being from not having assigned the missiles and firing controls much earlier? I'm pretty sure they would deal much much more damage firing in sync.
 

Offline jseah

  • Captain
  • **********
  • j
  • Posts: 490
Re: Questions of the not quite capable.
« Reply #42 on: April 30, 2011, 10:57:02 AM »
But as for combat was I correct about the several minute delays on some of the ships being from not having assigned the missiles and firing controls much earlier? I'm pretty sure they would deal much much more damage firing in sync.
You can force them to fire in sync (mostly) by ticking the Sync Fire checkbox in the automated firing options of the combat settings tab of the F6 screen. 

Untrained ships can still fire early. 
 

Offline Shoku (OP)

  • Petty Officer
  • **
  • S
  • Posts: 23
Re: Questions of the not quite capable.
« Reply #43 on: April 30, 2011, 05:07:11 PM »
I've realized why the second group go so beat up though. They were shot at as soon as they jumped into the system. For whatever reason I didn't think about how standard transit would mess the sensors up so badly. It would be nice if things could give more indication of why they are waiting to fire (or do they say that somewhere I just didn't think to look?)
« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 12:33:30 AM by Shoku »
 

Offline blue emu

  • Commander
  • *********
  • b
  • Posts: 344
  • Thanked: 2 times
Re: Questions of the not quite capable.
« Reply #44 on: May 06, 2011, 04:19:19 PM »
I have a few random not-quite-capable questions:

1) What's the best way to balance the economy? Three years into a Trans-Newtonian game, I'm about to go into debt.  Am I just trying to do too much, too soon? Cut back on Military spending? Unfortunately, I started without tech researchers in two of the important fields, including the one that has the Wealth expansion techs.

2) How do you set up defenses in a system that has no habitable planets? In particular, how do you guard a jump-point that is far from any solid body? Build Orbital Habitats and tow them out there with a Tug? Can PDCs be towed out to a jump point and left there to guard it, or can they only be dropped off at planets?

3) How do you produce and lay anti-warship mines? Will they only attack hostiles, or are friendly and neutral vessels at risk?