large military shipyard retooling

[Steve Walmsley]

That being said, unlike an actual refit (where the cost can exceed that of new construction) it seems plausible to me that the retool cost shouldn't exceed the cost for an "initial" retool (if it weren't assumed to be absorbed in the cost of constructing the SY ).  I don't know if Steve already has this limit in, but it might be worth putting a suggestion in the main suggestions thread.

I think it is already the initial retool or the refit cost, whichever is lower.

Steve

[LoSboccacc (OP)]

so I guess the reason is that the initial tooling cost is paid using industry capacity while the shipyard retooling is paid by shipyard modification rate?

[sloanjh]

so I guess the reason is that the initial tooling cost is paid using industry capacity while the shipyard retooling is paid by shipyard modification rate?

The theory (behind the very first retool being free) is that you already know the class of ship you're planning to build while you're building the SY.  Therefore when the SY is done, it's ready to build that class (IIRC the Soviets used to build special SY for new classes a lot).  This leads to a bit of an exploit since you don't have to have the class designed until the SY is finished (rather than right from the start), but I'm willing to take it since the whole process of building a big SY is so time-consuming anyway

John

[boggo2300]

The theory (behind the very first retool being free)

The first one is ALWAYS free.....

Matt

[Girlinhat]

We know it is, we want to know the justification for why it is.

My argument is that they just move in some tools.  Once it's tooled, they have to rip up the old machines and reconfigure floors.  It's often easier to start from scratch than to remodel, and it's easier to instal gear than to replace gear.

[sloanjh]

The first one is ALWAYS free.....

Must...build...newest...design....

John

[sloanjh]

We know it is, we want to know the justification for why it is.

My argument is that they just move in some tools.  Once it's tooled, they have to rip up the old machines and reconfigure floors.  It's often easier to start from scratch than to remodel, and it's easier to instal gear than to replace gear.

I'm confused as to why you don't think my post answered this question (or maybe I'm confused about what you're asking about ).  I was paraphrasing what Steve said when he put the retool stuff in.  If you want to see the direct language, you can search in Steve's old posts to Mechanics threads - probably one dealing with shipyards (unless the post is so old it got lost in a board problem we had some years ago).

John

[Girlinhat]

Matt was the one who didn't seem to understand the question.  I caught your answer just fine.

[Steve Walmsley]

The first retool is free because the assumption is that you are planning ahead and the shipyard is being built with the intended design in mind. Of course, some of the time that won't be true and the first class you build will only be finalized after the shipyard is built. However, I think it would be slightly annoying if you had to build a shipyard and then immediately retool it so this is a case of game-play over realism but with a reasonably plausible explanation behind it.

Steve

[jseah]

However, I think it would be slightly annoying if you had to build a shipyard and then immediately retool it so this is a case of game-play over realism but with a reasonably plausible explanation behind it.

I could live with that if shipyards cost less.  Because currently, I tend to shuffle around shipyards and always keep a few freshly built new ones on expansion so I can use any new class immediately. 
It also helps to have set tonnage ranges for classes that never change (2kton corvette, 3x 6kton frigate, 3x 6kton sensor platform, 2x 10kton destroyer, 12kton C&C, 16kton missile cruiser, 20kton battleship, 24kton independent patrol, 50kton commercial jumpship) so you already know ahead of time when you want to stop expanding a yard. 

Idle ones (classes I'm not building atm or fully expanded yards) get "mothballed" by the fleet of space stations that are nothing more than a tractor beam.