Author Topic: Some questions about Jump Points and combat.  (Read 4610 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline metalax

  • Commander
  • *********
  • m
  • Posts: 356
  • Thanked: 4 times
Re: Some questions about Jump Points and combat.
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2011, 02:29:43 PM »
It is rather slow for a beam ship. Beam ships need to be able to close quickly/be able to close at all with their opponents if the opponent is running from them. I'd usually dedicate at least 25% of the size of the ship to engines.

Armour and shields look good for your level of tech. Same with maintainance.

Firecontrols are ok although I'd pesonally go with size 8 firecontrols so a 4x range, 2x speed and a 2x range, 4x speed.

Don't bother with the thermal and em sensors if this ship is going to be operating as part of a group, have a dedicated sensor ship carry them.
At least double the size of your resolution 1 sensor preferably qadruple it, at the moment you will not pick up fighters/FAC's/small ships until they are well within your anti-ship beam range. You also have a better chance to hit fast missiles the longer that they have been tracked. Of course, you can get away with sensors like these if they are just a backup to the sensors of your dedicated sensor ship.
 

Offline blue emu

  • Commander
  • *********
  • b
  • Posts: 344
  • Thanked: 2 times
Re: Some questions about Jump Points and combat.
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2011, 03:05:40 PM »
Quote
The stats I have are:

Warhead Strength: 5
Engine Power: 3
Agility: 64
Efficiency: 0.8

OK, I've set up a dummy game with those techs, and I can walk you through the process of creating a size-1 AMM (anti-missile missile) and a size-6 ASM (anti-ship missile). You may prefer a smaller size for your ASM... many players like to use size-4 instead of size-6, since it reloads faster and takes up less magazine space... but the same method can be used to create effective missiles of any size.

Size-1 AMM

First, set your Warhead Strength MSP to whatever value it takes to get a strength-1 bang. At your current tech level, that's 0.2 MSP = strength-1.

Next, set the Agility MSP to zero temporarily, while we adjust the other stats. We will be returning to set the Agility later, but start it off at zero.

Set the Fuel MSP to whatever it takes to give you the desired range. Early in the game, your PD (Point Defense, res-1) Active Sensors won't be able to spot incoming enemy missiles beyond a million or so kilometers anyway, so twice that figure (about 2 m-km) should be plenty of range for an early-game AMM.

Remember that Fuel/Range figures can be misleading if you haven't yet ballasted your missile up to its final weight... if you've only typed in numbers that total 0.5 instead of totalling 1.0, then your range figure will be misleadingly high. Always ballast your missile up to its design weight before making any major decisions.

Now put all of the remaining points (to bring your missile up to a total weight of 1.0000) into Engine. Check the Fuel/Range again, and make any needed adjustments. It should look something like this, at this point in the process:



Notice that the missile mass totals 1.0000 and that the to-Hit vs 10,000 kps targets is only 47.4%. Not very good, since nearly all missiles will be moving faster than that.

Now we transfer some of the points from Engine to Agility, to improve that to-Hit percentage. Recall the formula that I posted in my Kiwi/Emu Missile Design thread:

Quote
These MSP should first be distributed as follows:

If S = the missile size,
and M = your current missile agility per MSP (depends on tech),
and T = the total MSP available for Engines plus Agility,

Then E = (T/2)+(5xS/M) is the amount of MSP that should be used for Engines
and A = (T/2)-(5xS/M) is the remaining MSP that should be used for Agility.

These numbers should then be adjusted up or down so that your actual missile agility is a whole number... ideally, a whole number that is an even multiple of your missile size.

Since we've temporarily zeroed-out the Agility, the number in the Engine box is our T variable for that equation. S is the missile size 1, M is your Agility tech, 64.

So E = (T/2)+(5xS/M) = 0.79/2 + (5x1)/64 = 0.4731 (rounded to four decimal places, which is all the game uses)

Put that number in the engine box, and put all the rest of your points... enough to bring the missile mass back up to 1.0000... into Agility. Now your missile design looks like this:



Your to-Hit has improved from 47.4% to 85.2%! We're not quite done yet, though. Notice that your Agility MSP (0.3169) gives you an Agility value of 20.2816... this number really should be an Integer multiple of your missile size... with a size-1 missile, any Integer will do. So we slightly adjust the Agility MSP to drop the Agility Value down to the nearest whole number, 20:



... and that slightly improves our to-Hit once more, to 85.8. NOW we're done. Name it, save it, research it and build it.

For your size-6 ASM, the same steps apply. I've chosen a strength-4 warhead (it should usually be a perfect square such as 1, 4, 9, 16 etc, for best armor penetration), and a range of 60 m-km.

The process is exactly the same... first set the warhead, then set Agility to zero, then set the fuel and ballast the missile up to its design weight (6.0000), then work out the formula and transfer some points from Engine to Agility, lastly reduce the Agility to a whole-number multiple of the missile size, by moving a few fractions of a point back into Engine.

Screen-shots:



« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 04:10:37 PM by blue emu »
 

Offline mavikfelna

  • Lieutenant
  • *******
  • Posts: 157
    • http://www.geocities.com/mavikfelna
  • 2021 Supporter 2021 Supporter : Donate for 2021
Re: Some questions about Jump Points and combat.
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2011, 03:45:55 PM »
You really should get this put into the tutorials, it's an excellent explanation.

--Mav
 

Offline Thiosk

  • Commodore
  • **********
  • Posts: 784
  • Thanked: 1 times
Re: Some questions about Jump Points and combat.
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2011, 06:31:08 PM »
You really should get this put into the tutorials, it's an excellent explanation.

--Mav

Agreed.  these sorts of annotated screenshots are EXACTLY the sort of thing that helps bring the eyes to one box or another-- until you get a feel for the interface, aurora is just a series of boxes with numbers in them.
 

Offline Person012345

  • Captain
  • **********
  • Posts: 539
  • Thanked: 29 times
Re: Some questions about Jump Points and combat.
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2011, 07:49:22 PM »
I have a semi-related question. Are the NPR's usually very aggressive? Upon contact, are they more likely to blow you into space debris, or try to say hi?
« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 08:07:49 PM by Person012345 »
 

Offline HaliRyan

  • Lt. Commander
  • ********
  • H
  • Posts: 232
Re: Some questions about Jump Points and combat.
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2011, 08:29:14 PM »
Depends heavily on the particular NPR. Some will be perfectly happy waving hello and signing a trade agreement, others will declare you a blight on the galaxy.

One thing to keep in mind if you're looking to have cordial relations is that NPRs regard being lit up by active sensors an aggressive act (although I think this changes if you achieve allied status). So if you spend a month sitting next to one of their ships with your actives on, don't be surprised if they shoot you.
 

Offline Rawb (OP)

  • Warrant Officer, Class 2
  • ****
  • R
  • Posts: 56
Re: Some questions about Jump Points and combat.
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2011, 07:56:32 AM »
Blue Emu, that post was ridiculously helpful.  I reckon it should be a tutorial sticky.  Thank you so much I actually understand it all now :) 

Metalax, So basically, remove the Thermal and EM, quadruple sensor size, Mess about with the FC and get more engines.  What speed do you recommend?
 

Offline Yonder

  • Registered
  • Lt. Commander
  • ********
  • Y
  • Posts: 278
Re: Some questions about Jump Points and combat.
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2011, 08:55:54 AM »
Blue Emu, that post was ridiculously helpful.  I reckon it should be a tutorial sticky.  Thank you so much I actually understand it all now :) 

Metalax, So basically, remove the Thermal and EM, quadruple sensor size, Mess about with the FC and get more engines.  What speed do you recommend?

I would aim for 4000 to 6000 km/s. You also may want to consider scrapping the shields entirely, as in the early game they really aren't able to compete with armor. That said you are starting to get into the area where they start to be reasonable, depending on your enemy, and of course you may want them from a RP standpoint, which is always the most important consideration.
 

Offline blue emu

  • Commander
  • *********
  • b
  • Posts: 344
  • Thanked: 2 times
Re: Some questions about Jump Points and combat.
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2011, 12:15:52 PM »
Blue Emu, that post was ridiculously helpful.  I reckon it should be a tutorial sticky.  Thank you so much I actually understand it all now :) 

Glad to help. Just post (or PM me) if you need another walk-through on a different topic.
 

Offline metalax

  • Commander
  • *********
  • m
  • Posts: 356
  • Thanked: 4 times
Re: Some questions about Jump Points and combat.
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2011, 03:26:28 AM »
4000-6000 would be a good speed, yes. I tend to not aim for a particular speed and instead aim for a certain percentage of the ship tonnage to be dedicated to engines. Usually 25% on most ships, 50% on fast beam ships and 75% on very fast/boarding ships. This does result in needing to use fairly big ships to get sufficient mission space for weapons on the faster designs.
 

Offline Atlantia

  • Sub-Lieutenant
  • ******
  • Posts: 110
  • This is a wug.
Re: Some questions about Jump Points and combat.
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2011, 04:15:35 PM »
Back to jump points and combat.

How long are ships sensor-blind for, and where can I find this information in-game?
Now there are two of them.   There are two ______.
 

Offline blue emu

  • Commander
  • *********
  • b
  • Posts: 344
  • Thanked: 2 times
Re: Some questions about Jump Points and combat.
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2011, 04:23:12 PM »
In my experience, several minutes. Shorter if you Squadron Jump, longer if your Task Force Training is low. Not sure where you would find actual numbers.
 

Offline HaliRyan

  • Lt. Commander
  • ********
  • H
  • Posts: 232
Re: Some questions about Jump Points and combat.
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2011, 04:51:32 PM »
The actual formula is posted in the Mechanics section I think. It's something like 10-30 seconds for a squadron transit, and 30 seconds-2 minutes for a standard transit.
 

Offline Hawkeye

  • Silver Supporter
  • Vice Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1059
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • Silver Supporter Silver Supporter : Support the forums with a Silver subscription
    2021 Supporter 2021 Supporter : Donate for 2021
    2022 Supporter 2022 Supporter : Donate for 2022
    2023 Supporter 2023 Supporter : Donate for 2023
Re: Some questions about Jump Points and combat.
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2011, 01:06:23 AM »
The psuedo code is as follows:

Code: [Select]
    Bonus = 1 - (Int(Sqr(GradePoints) - 10) / 100)
   
    If Squadron Transit then
        Delay = (10 + Random Number(20)) * Bonus
    Else
        Delay = (120 + Random Number(60)) * Bonus
    End
Which means that a squadron transit will cause blindness for 11-30 seconds and a regular or jump gate transit will cause blindness for 121-180 seconds. This affects both fire control and active sensors. The delay is reduced by the grade bonus of each ship.

Steve
Ralph Hoenig, Germany
 

Offline zazu

  • Warrant Officer, Class 2
  • ****
  • z
  • Posts: 62
Re: Some questions about Jump Points and combat.
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2011, 11:58:10 AM »
I made a new game where all the jump points are already found but not yet explored

How do I explore them? I tried sending in survey ships of both kinds but there wasn't an option

I sent a jump destroyer there to see if I could jump but I couldn't...

How do I make this work?