Change Log for v7.10 Discussion

[JOKER]

Also, the 'AMM spam' from defensive bases makes things hard for the player in some circumstances. I don't think having a ship that could sail through that with impunity makes for a good gaming experience.

Things are too easy for experienced player, like me, with overpowering AMM defence. NPR can't even touch my ship with higher tech missile, and the AMM spam is more annoying than real danger before my ship run out of ammo. Please give NPR something better than zerging and spam.

In current system, my most effective defence ship design become that. The first one is only a multi-purpose ship. If I did fill a 30Kt ship with nothing but AMM array and huge magazine, she will single-handly hold all missile attack from an NPR FLEET. Calculating who will run out of ammo first isn't a good gaming experience.

Build a beehive filled with ASM is effective against current NPR defence, but not interesting either.

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Eclipse class GTA Corvette    20,000 tons     451 Crew     4354.48 BP      TCS 400  TH 2000  EM 0
5000 km/s     Armour 8-65     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 35     PPV 84
Maint Life 2.23 Years     MSP 2041    AFR 213%    IFR 3%    1YR 551    5YR 8270    Max Repair 500 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Spare Berths 1   
Magazine 1917   

1000 EP Internal Fusion Drive (2)    Power 1000    Fuel Use 15%    Signature 1000    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 1,500,000 Litres    Range 90.0 billion km   (208 days at full power)

Anti-Air Arty (2)    Missile Size 4    Rate of Fire 20
Launch Pylon S6 (40)    Missile Size 6    Hangar Reload 45 minutes    MF Reload 7.5 hours
AMM Launcher (40)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 5
Raytheon Missile Fire Control FC513-R200 (2)     Range 513.2m km    Resolution 200
Raytheon AMM Control FC71-R1 (4)     Range 71.3m km    Resolution 1
Typhoon Torpedo (40)  Speed: 50,000 km/s   End: 97.7m    Range: 293m km   WH: 16    Size: 6    TH: 216/130/65
Hellfire II (40)  Speed: 52,000 km/s   End: 14.3m    Range: 44.8m km   WH: 9    Size: 3.846    TH: 450/270/135
Dart II AMM (1523)  Speed: 60,000 km/s   End: 2.8m    Range: 10.1m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 760/456/228

Raytheon AMM Sensor MR69-R1 (1)     GPS 384     Range 69.1m km    MCR 7.5m km    Resolution 1

ECCM-4 (2)         ECM 40

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

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GTC Fenris II class Cruiser    10,000 tons     242 Crew     2536.5 BP      TCS 200  TH 1250  EM 0
6250 km/s     Armour 6-41     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 7     PPV 40.5
Maint Life 3.1 Years     MSP 1110    AFR 114%    IFR 1.6%    1YR 174    5YR 2609    Max Repair 312.5 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 20 months    Spare Berths 1   
Magazine 845   

Lumion-III 625 EP MF Drive (2)    Power 625    Fuel Use 22.5%    Signature 625    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 750,000 Litres    Range 60.0 billion km   (111 days at full power)

Pulse Laser Turret (2x4)    Range 60,000km     TS: 25000 km/s     Power 12-6     RM 7    ROF 10        3 3 3 3 3 3 0 0 0 0
AA Control (1)    Max Range: 60,000 km   TS: 25000 km/s     83 67 50 33 17 0 0 0 0 0
M.C.Fusion Reactor-6 (2)     Total Power Output 12    Armour 0    Exp 16%

Missile Tube S1 (20)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 5
R&D AMM FC38 (2)     Range 38.9m km    Resolution 1
RAM-1A (845)  Speed: 60,000 km/s   End: 1.2m    Range: 4.3m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 960/576/288

[MarcAFK]

Does the AI use armoured missile? Maybe missiles could be equipped with ECM lowering interception chance unless the AMM has ECCM

[JOKER]

Does the AI use armoured missile?

It doesn't matter as missile armour is only effective against laser. I don't think AI in Aurora is smart enough to correctly handle more complex design, as their current missile design is horrible.

[alex_brunius]

Things are too easy for experienced player, like me, with overpowering AMM defence. NPR can't even touch my ship with higher tech missile, and the AMM spam is more annoying than real danger before my ship run out of ammo. Please give NPR something better than zerging and spam.

In current system, my most effective defence ship design become that. The first one is only a multi-purpose ship. If I did fill a 30Kt ship with nothing but AMM array and huge magazine, she will single-handly hold all missile attack from an NPR FLEET. Calculating who will run out of ammo first isn't a good gaming experience.

Is the NPR you are fighting the same tech level? "higher tech missile" suggests they are not.

If so the issue that things are too easy probably has more to do with that you out-tech the NPR?

And if roles were reversed and the NPR had better tech, faster missiles and such, wouldn't you need "zerging and spam" to have any chance of winning against them? How would you beat them without it?

[Vandermeer]

Issues with the new promotion ratio for ground commanders:
Even when you just start out with 1 Military Academy, you can already get a division ground commander. Combined with that there are only 4 ranks to be had, I foresee that the masses of ground commanders will later get incredibly tightly pressed into the highest rank, as you might easily get 10-20 major generals now, with no one of higher merit to make chain of command clear. (you used to get only 2-3 highest commanders with 15-20 academies, which was fine)
This effect could be lessened by reducing the overall percentage of ground officers maybe. I must monitor how it really develops over longer game now though.

[Zincat]

Is the NPR you are fighting the same tech level? "higher tech missile" suggests they are not.

I think he meant the other way around, as in "NPR can't even touch my ship with their higher tech missile"

[Red Dot]

Issues with the new promotion ratio for ground commanders:

Sorry to disagree with you, Vandermeer, bit to feed my hordes of divisions, the old 5:1 ratio was never sufficient.  I am quite happy with the new 4:1 ratio.

[metalax]

Sorry to disagree with you, Vandermeer, bit to feed my hordes of divisions, the old 5:1 ratio was never sufficient.  I am quite happy with the new 4:1 ratio.

Agreed. Actually I'd like to see an Army Command Unit or similar for those rank 4 ground commanders that lets you group up divisions.

[Vandermeer]

Sorry to disagree with you, Vandermeer, bit to feed my hordes of divisions, the old 5:1 ratio was never sufficient.  I am quite happy with the new 4:1 ratio.

Yeah, maybe it was to early to say something too. I'll have to see how it really works out once 15 academies stand.
However, I also never had shortage of high enough rank ground commanders before. MY problem was actually that there was too much navy command, and too few ground officers, because I featured over a hundred construction brigades along with about 14 regular divisions and some boarding crew in basically every game.
A huge army like that is actually quickly built late game, and still doesn't even eat 1% of your GDP, yet you are always out of officers for them.(still enough to man the division and brigade commands just fine though, so low ranks were short, not highs)

Anyway, my concern would've just been though that the lieutenant generals become too many. It would be weird to have like 12 kings who all rule equally. But I don't know yet if that really happens.

Agreed. Actually I'd like to see an Army Command Unit or similar for those rank 4 ground commanders that lets you group up divisions.

I want that too, because right now the highest rank only feels like honorifics if it doesn't entail some real regimen advantage. Would make loading them much easier as well.

[Red Dot]

Agreed.  Actually I'd like to see an Army Command Unit or similar for those rank 4 ground commanders that lets you group up divisions.

  Motion seconded.  I am currently doing Corps HQs of 4 Divs through RP, but that is not as satisfying as researching, building and employing real Corps HQs.

[JOKER]

If so the issue that things are too easy probably has more to do with that you out-tech the NPR?

And if roles were reversed and the NPR had better tech, faster missiles and such, wouldn't you need "zerging and spam" to have any chance of winning against them? How would you beat them without it?

I mean NPR have higher tech.

My attack ship design is a beehive loaded with 100 size 6 ASM launcher, multi-purpose ship has 40. One or two macross missile massacre is enough to take most NPR out, no need to send endless waves of AMM.

I also prepared some 100 WH surprise at jump point.

[Haji]

Therefore in v7.10, asteroids with a gravity of at least 0.02G are treated like any other body when assessing colony cost. So now you will be able to establish normal populations on larger asteroids. They still won't have atmospheres but those could be added via terraforming.

As always when Steve expands colonization options I went ahead, started a new game and created a belter race with ideal gravity of 0.05g and tolerance of 0.049g. As expected the only bodies in the inner system they could live on were Ceres, Pallas and Vesta. And then I noticed that almost all moons of all the gas giants can be settled by them, because everything that isn't an asteroid doesn't have to have gravity higher than 0.02g to be colonizable.
This of course isn't the only current issue with regards how asteroids and moons are treated. Asteroid mining module works on any asteroid and nothing else. Have a one thousand kilometer body with gravity of 0.1g that is classified as an asteroid? Works like a charm. Have a hundred kilometer moon with gravity of 0.01g? Sorry, the orbital modules won't work.
I think asteroids should be treated the same way other bodies when it comes to colonization and such, effectively limiting the purpose of the classification to placement. Asteroid mining module should be renamed space mining module and should be working on anything with low enough gravity. Up until now I haven't suggested it as I didn't know how difficult or resource consuming it would be to make the gravity checks, but as the recent change shows it's not that difficult. This is of course just a personal opinion.
And many thanks for making the asteroids colonisable. Belter populations are fun.

[Vandermeer]

This of course isn't the only current issue with regards how asteroids and moons are treated. Asteroid mining module works on any asteroid and nothing else. Have a one thousand kilometer body with gravity of 0.1g that is classified as an asteroid? Works like a charm. Have a hundred kilometer moon with gravity of 0.01g? Sorry, the orbital modules won't work.
I think asteroids should be treated the same way other bodies when it comes to colonization and such, effectively limiting the purpose of the classification to placement. Asteroid mining module should be renamed space mining module and should be working on anything with low enough gravity. Up until now I haven't suggested it as I didn't know how difficult or resource consuming it would be to make the gravity checks, but as the recent change shows it's not that difficult.

Very good point.

[Steve Walmsley]

Asteroid mining module should be renamed space mining module and should be working on anything with low enough gravity. Up until now I haven't suggested it as I didn't know how difficult or resource consuming it would be to make the gravity checks, but as the recent change shows it's not that difficult. This is of course just a personal opinion.
And many thanks for making the asteroids colonisable. Belter populations are fun.

Yes, that would be more consistent. I will change this at some point.

[Zincat]

Those are two great changes, Steve. We  really need a changelog discussion thread for 7.2