Author Topic: Race to the Stars - Comments Thread  (Read 5224 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Zap0

  • Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 318
  • Thanked: 460 times
Re: Race to the Stars - Comments Thread
« Reply #75 on: April 18, 2021, 08:16:04 PM »
I know the feeling, although it's my case it's less that nothing dramatic is happening and more that too many undramatic things happen which slow down the arrival of dramatic happenings. Such is Aurora.  :P

Absolutely. It's easy to think about getting back into the game, dreaming about epic space battles, alliances and betrayals, only to be clobbered by a hundred mundane logistical details, orders and build queues finishing where you don't quite remember if you intended to follow up on them somehow. I do take notes, but they're only so extensive - More than once an empire has sat on a new set of technology for their ships or armies all researched and designed, but then never actually put them into action.

By now everyone's Gallicite sources are getting farther and farther away, and not everybodies freighters are up to the distances. The CAL freighters got a refit for extended fuel tanks at some point relatively recently, but the joint-venture mining outpost Mars established with the INL (Burzaco is the system) is just over 40b away and Martian freighters have a range of 20b, necessitating four micro-intensive refueling stops along the way. I wish underway refueling worked in this version!
Then there's the details of maintenance and fuel juggling between bases, handling the fallout from when there wasn't enough msp somewhere, the ever-present background noise of survey ships needing targets, coming home or finding something, some scientist dying and having to figure out which project he was working on to find a replacement, and so on... There's a lot of busywork involved in Aurora. The turns started taking long enough that I began playing FTL in the background while turns processed in January. All symptoms of a game with a hundred years worth of simulated entropy. One of my favorite characteristics of a nice AAR is that it doesn't stop early, like so many projects here and elsewhere do, and I think I've succeeded by that measure. I'll definitely get to the 100 year mark yet, with 6 empires. But at some point I'll have to call it quits. Just not yet. One more turn... ;)
 
The following users thanked this post: StarshipCactus, nuclearslurpee

Offline StarshipCactus

  • Lieutenant
  • *******
  • S
  • Posts: 152
  • Thanked: 29 times
Re: Race to the Stars - Comments Thread
« Reply #76 on: April 19, 2021, 12:50:11 AM »
Yes! The return of Race to the Stars. How would the PRL have responded if that freighter had been destroyed? Ships don't just vanish in Aurora, but the people in the game don't know that, although I don't think any other ships have just vanished without a trace. Would they have tried to search for the wreck?
 

Offline Zap0

  • Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 318
  • Thanked: 460 times
Re: Race to the Stars - Comments Thread
« Reply #77 on: April 19, 2021, 04:09:38 AM »
Yes! The return of Race to the Stars. How would the PRL have responded if that freighter had been destroyed? Ships don't just vanish in Aurora, but the people in the game don't know that, although I don't think any other ships have just vanished without a trace. Would they have tried to search for the wreck?

We'll never know now, would we? I imagine the Martian ships in the system would have looked away and whistled very hard while the PRL tries to conduct an investigation. They might well have concluded it was them, and tried to respond in kind by raiding their shipping, giving potential for escalation.

They'd probably have searched for the ship and found the wreckage. The Martians had no plan for the wreck, analysis might well have shown that Martian weapons were the cause of the destruction.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 01:47:21 AM by Zap0 »
 

Offline StarshipCactus

  • Lieutenant
  • *******
  • S
  • Posts: 152
  • Thanked: 29 times
Re: Race to the Stars - Comments Thread
« Reply #78 on: April 19, 2021, 07:58:21 PM »
Yes! The return of Race to the Stars. How would the PRL have responded if that freighter had been destroyed? Ships don't just vanish in Aurora, but the people in the game don't know that, although I don't think any other ships have just vanished without a trace. Would they have tried to search for the wreck?

We'll never know now, would we? I imagine the Martian ships in the system would have looked away and whistled very hard while the PRL tries to conduct an investigation. They might well have concluded it was them, and tried to respond in kind by raiding their shipping, giving potential for escalation.

They'd probably have searched for the ship and found the wreckage. The Martians had no plan for the wreck, analysis might well have shown that Martian weapons were the caues of the destruction.

Can you tractor wrecks? If you can, it might not be a bad idea to bring a tug ship along for next time, or you could use boarding tactics and fly the ship away from a shipping lane. Or you could board and scuttle the ship. (Can you still do that in C#?) If it is scuttled, it might look like an accident, assuming the scuttling is destructive enough to get rid of evidence for boarding action.

Clearly the Martians need to create a plan for next time if they are considering raiding again! Shame about that route not being as valuable as they remember it being, but even a small raid is better than nothing.
 

Offline nuclearslurpee

  • Rear Admiral
  • **********
  • Posts: 991
  • Thanked: 670 times
  • Radioactive frozen beverage.
Re: Race to the Stars - Comments Thread
« Reply #79 on: April 19, 2021, 08:37:29 PM »
 

Offline StarshipCactus

  • Lieutenant
  • *******
  • S
  • Posts: 152
  • Thanked: 29 times
 

Offline Garfunkel

  • Registered
  • Vice Admiral
  • **********
  • Posts: 2106
  • Thanked: 620 times
Re: Race to the Stars - Comments Thread
« Reply #81 on: April 20, 2021, 09:40:34 PM »
This was a planned feature for C# but hasn't made it in yet. Hopefully in 1.13 or maybe 1.14! I really like the idea of towing wrecks to a salvage station in orbit of Io!
 

Offline StarshipCactus

  • Lieutenant
  • *******
  • S
  • Posts: 152
  • Thanked: 29 times
Re: Race to the Stars - Comments Thread
« Reply #82 on: April 21, 2021, 08:09:49 PM »
Or maybe just out of range of your rivals sensors.
 

Offline nuclearslurpee

  • Rear Admiral
  • **********
  • Posts: 991
  • Thanked: 670 times
  • Radioactive frozen beverage.
Re: Race to the Stars - Comments Thread
« Reply #83 on: April 22, 2021, 12:04:10 PM »
Quote
Human-Xining relations are relatively cool these days as they've come to view Humans as unreliable.

Accurate.

Quote
Particularly the PRL, who had a ship get caught up in the fighting, restructured their navy with alien wars in mind as they were the greater threat.

I wonder if this means their ship designs are better than those of other human fleets, or merely are optimized for an alien enemy at the expense perhaps of being weaker against human fleets, providing a useful opportunity for their competitors to take them down a notch.

Quote
There are also a number of other encounters made by Human explorers over the years. Some of them could be attributed to Qian, some as likely encounters of other races, but many are still a mystery: Unexplained energy spikes and weapons fire, mystery wrecks and artificial structures in space. Explorer crews often come home with stories so fantastic and outlandish that they seem unlikely to be true, but should they indeed be there may be as many as a dozen alien species active in the stellar neighborhood.

That would be quite something, especially if the aliens get drawn into a complex web of cross-alliances as human races ally with some and fight wars against others. Lots of potential here.

An excellent and useful summary.
 

Offline nuclearslurpee

  • Rear Admiral
  • **********
  • Posts: 991
  • Thanked: 670 times
  • Radioactive frozen beverage.
Re: Race to the Stars - Comments Thread
« Reply #84 on: April 26, 2021, 08:47:11 PM »
Quote
The PRL is struggling to get enough infrastructure to Fùguó quickly enough to cover the explosive growth of it's colony. Local refueling and maintenance capacities are badly needed due to it's distance from other PRL bases, the system is only really reachable due to the refueling station on Procyon's Rest already. A repair yard, central administration, naval facilities, more than just a token ground defense force, even a full gravimetric survey of the system are still lacking. Fùguó is in a very vulnerable stage of it's growth. The PRL may need to react early and decisively if it looks like another power is making a move on it.

A familiar feeling...Aurora is maddening at times, you need to get things done as fast as possible but the game takes forever to advance once you've started really playing it.

Quote
The crunch has also highlighted the inadequacy of existing PRL logistics ships, which are an overworked collection of ancient military vessels combining fuel and supply duties, with low capacities of either. A dedicated series of bulk haulers and fast couriers is a must.

Sooo you gotta spend gallicite on your gallicite haulers to get gallicite for your actual fleet. Like I said...maddening!  :P

Quote
The disembarkation process went smoothly, all units got in formation and advanced on the enemy. Upon treading across some unknowable perimeter, the defense systems of the compound sprung to life and began the slaughter. The mobile units of the Qian moved with ease through the thick mists and sharp inclines of the local terrain, efficiently cutting down squadron after squadron as the soldiers in their heavy armor struggled to hit anything. The whole assault was over within an hour, the occasional lucky hit taking down not nearly enough of the defenders.

That's...quite something. Looks like the Callistoanskiy Rezhim has learned not to place nearly so much trust in their active sensor readings when it comes to ground forces...that 600 tons was probably closer to 3000 due to fortification modifiers!

I recommend air-dropping two thousand main battle tanks, this works every time.

Quote
The Japanese Situation

Japan has been having tough times. Ever since the loss of Venus budgets have been tight in virtually every area. The plan is to change that with the reconquest of Venus and the liberation of it's population, for which rough preperations have been ongoing for years. It is now time for a concrete plan and timetable.

This is really starting to take on a Hatfields vs. McCoys feel now.

Quote
The downsizing of the attack destroyer squadron opens up extra capacities for more escort destroyers, which will be needed to counter the Callistoan navy, as has been demonstrated in the skirmish over Encke a few years ago. The remaining three ion-engined escorts can be kept in service, as they do not depend on their movement speed for their efficacy, but the goal is to build up to 8 escorts again, with 6 as the minimum. Reserves of Qian Interceptors are too low for comfortable supply of all units with 1330 interceptors remaining. Good numbers of domestic interceptors are in storage, but they are not as efficient.

A smart admiral would load the Qian missiles first and fill the magazines with domestic models. Hopefully this can convince the Callistoans that they face a stronger enemy than they really do, and press them to retreat before the Qian missiles are exhausted.

Quote
Maintaining and maximizing Gallicite production is of the highest priority.

An ill-advised raid on a Qian shipping lane may be called for.

So it seems that the battle is some years off. I wonder what the other powers might get up to in the intervening time...
 

Offline Zap0

  • Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 318
  • Thanked: 460 times
Re: Race to the Stars - Comments Thread
« Reply #85 on: April 27, 2021, 12:56:42 AM »
That's...quite something. Looks like the Callistoanskiy Rezhim has learned not to place nearly so much trust in their active sensor readings when it comes to ground forces...that 600 tons was probably closer to 3000 due to fortification modifiers!

I might have known that, but the people in charge over there only saw small numbers! :P

I recommend air-dropping two thousand main battle tanks, this works every time.

Ah, the PRL approach then. You'll be glad to know that the next (hopefully final?) military expedition to Smolensk does indeed carry tanks, though they only have a hundred or so to spare.

A smart admiral would load the Qian missiles first and fill the magazines with domestic models. Hopefully this can convince the Callistoans that they face a stronger enemy than they really do, and press them to retreat before the Qian missiles are exhausted.

That was the plan, but perhaps some more Qian interceptors can be obtained from somewhere before then yet...
 
The following users thanked this post: nuclearslurpee

Offline Garfunkel

  • Registered
  • Vice Admiral
  • **********
  • Posts: 2106
  • Thanked: 620 times
Re: Race to the Stars - Comments Thread
« Reply #86 on: May 20, 2021, 11:47:27 AM »
Very interesting update! How did you handle the raiders? Did you make a new race for them or just made Terra & INL hostile to each other for a bit and hoped that there wouldn't be any accidents elsewhere? I guess if INL doesn't really have any assets in Sol, there wouldn't be.
 

Offline Zap0

  • Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 318
  • Thanked: 460 times
Re: Race to the Stars - Comments Thread
« Reply #87 on: May 20, 2021, 01:56:56 PM »
Very interesting update! How did you handle the raiders? Did you make a new race for them or just made Terra & INL hostile to each other for a bit and hoped that there wouldn't be any accidents elsewhere? I guess if INL doesn't really have any assets in Sol, there wouldn't be.

The raiders were just part of Terra, and I didn't even make them hostile to another. I've considered setting them hostile to another (I've temporarily set empires hostile for individual fights or screenshots before), but they do share a colony on Procyon's Rest, and a number of systems are used by traffic from both sides, like Wuhan and Salto. The sharing-a-colony issue can be solved by putting all units on both sides into rear position, but the killer problem would be constant detections of civilian ships in Procyon and shared transit systems. But hostile relations are required for a few mechanics to function (like interrupts when they enter your space or sensor range, ground combat and AMMs working). If only all these mechanics didn't tie to the same control... That's an #AuroraWoes moment.

More #AuroraWoes:

That ship that was keeping distance exactly 33k too close? Yeah, 6.6k km/s speed over 5 seconds is that distance. The Cerberus was moving to the 120k distance it was meant to be, then the chasing ship closed in an additional 33k every tick. I wonder how many people are raging at their ships being chronically unable to do what they're told, cause the interactions of movement orders can be a science unto itself.

Oh, and apparently the San Rafael forgot that it was supposed to be under jump shock, it just jumped into the system via standard transit as it was stabilized and was able to move immediately and shoot 5 seconds after, but only because I didn't give the order to shoot immediately. I'm still on 1.11, but I don't think it is broken in this version. One guess would be that it didn't apply an order delay because there were no hostile ships in the system.
 

Offline nuclearslurpee

  • Rear Admiral
  • **********
  • Posts: 991
  • Thanked: 670 times
  • Radioactive frozen beverage.
Re: Race to the Stars - Comments Thread
« Reply #88 on: May 21, 2021, 12:46:56 PM »
Quote
Callisto of course knows a counterinvasion of Venus is coming, as this is an issue debated in public Japanese political discourse. Politicians have it on their agenda. Unfortunately the army is one arm of the regime that has suffered as a consequence of the budget cuts, and a defense of Venus on the ground is deemed infeasible. What money there is is being invested into another run of thrust blocks. The next fight for Venus will be decided in space. There will still be a refresh of the ground troops, especially in light of the losses in Smolensk, but it's a secondary priority.

This seems shortsighted as a decision by the Callisto leadership. Tonnage of well-fortified ground troops is worth quite a bit when defending a colony as they can require several times their mass in attackers to dislodge. That said, of course spaceborne defenses are a necessity otherwise the mining infrastructure on Venus will be blown up in the battle anyways.

I'm a bit surprised by the discussion of civilian shipping income, mainly because the kind of numbers Callisto has are pretty typical for all of my campaigns and having a budget driven so heavily by shipping taxation is something I never see. It may have to do with the length of the campaign though?

Quote
The counter-volley penetrated the raider's thin plating, taking both engines and the weapon systems with it, ending the fight in one attack. Being disabled, the Garmr surrenders. The privateers had made a rookie mistake in sitting right on top of the JP and will now pay for it by spending their lives in chains.

I'd say their bigger mistake was trying to pick a fight with a military ship three times their size and weapons payload. These pirates will need to go to the clothing store and buy new pants, they've gotten too big for their britches!   :P

Quote
The Cerberus briefly reversed course and fell to under 90k km distance, further than they had intended. The crew of the San Rafael used the opportunity to plink away at the Cerberus before their speed advantage pulls them out of their 120k weapons range again.
More #AuroraWoes:

That ship that was keeping distance exactly 33k too close? Yeah, 6.6k km/s speed over 5 seconds is that distance. The Cerberus was moving to the 120k distance it was meant to be, then the chasing ship closed in an additional 33k every tick. I wonder how many people are raging at their ships being chronically unable to do what they're told, cause the interactions of movement orders can be a science unto itself.

I've found similar happens when ships with different speeds try to maintain distances. Usually manually setting the speed of the faster fleet to match the slower fleet works, but often this requires some fancy flying to actually reach the expected range. I usually consider this to be due to the difficulties of driving a 10,000-ton spaceship and mutter some hand-wavey stuff about helm officers.

Quote
Oh, and apparently the San Rafael forgot that it was supposed to be under jump shock, it just jumped into the system via standard transit as it was stabilized and was able to move immediately and shoot 5 seconds after, but only because I didn't give the order to shoot immediately. I'm still on 1.11, but I don't think it is broken in this version. One guess would be that it didn't apply an order delay because there were no hostile ships in the system.

The jump shock system seems to interact with fleet training level so that a well-trained fleet may not suffer from it at all? The whole system is maddeningly inconsistent frankly. I'd prefer if the current system were replaced by a sensor blindness effect which would prevent opening fire as a side effect, and also make jump point reconnaissance rather less effective preserving the advantage of the defenders, if we must have a jump point system for combat in the first place.

Quote
The INL reaction at least confirms that shipping is the point to hit with them, and intelligence on their newest ship class could be gained.

Making the best spin out of a bad result, indeed.

Quote
Galactic irony has delivered a Japanse explorer with a bounty of immense strategic value: A secret passage into the unprotected backyard of the enemy.

A stabilizer is being dispatched to secure passage for the fleet.

Finally, the conflict expands beyond Venus! Are we on the cusp of our first truly interstellar war between two human factions?

Quote
Faction Profile: TERRA
Terran Primacy (2150)

In general it seems like Terra has the major advantage of population, they may not have the galactic resource base to effectively fuel all of that population but they can absolutely staff the large number of research facilities and other non-production installations to remain competitive until their enemies are weakened enough to strike against.

Interesting deal with Japan, Terra may become a market for "export" designs if some other power sees an opportunity to stabilize, I dunno, a severe financial crunch by selling second-rate technology? Of course, this level of realpolitik only serves to be swept aside by nationalistic enmity...

Quote
Development of proper long-range weapon systems will take a while, but as a first step the Hestia class has been designed:

Interesting design. The propulsion is curious, the individual engines being quite gallicite-hungry but the small displacement used for propulsion keeps the overall cost down and allows mounting a large cache of particle weaponry. The maintenance demands are likely to give Terra serious problems, it looks like they have chronically underinvested in ship engineer training and cannot staff enough engineering bays to reduce overall failure rates. Hopefully, the size and number of weapons will provide a sufficient deterrent.

Quote
Daimonion class Escort

Looks like an excellent design, aside from the magazine perhaps being a bit shallow. This should provide Terra with an absolute hornet's nest of defensive firepower.

Quote
Although expensive, a population in an orbital habitat station is much easier to control than one on the surface of a large planet.

A true, if mildly concerning, point to be raised.

Quote
Remind the colonials of their place - the eventual, if far-off goal, is to make all the independent powers pay Terra their dues again, but the INL is first in line due to their relative weakness. A fight against Mars can't be won yet, so limited engagements that don't call upon them to defend their ally yet are the plan. Raids on targets of opportunity, further sponsorship of privateering and perhaps the takeover of a few minor outposts.

An ambitious if long-term goal. It will be difficult to defeat the colonials with a philosophy that prioritizes Terra first, despite her limited resource base though still yet substantial.
 

Offline Zap0

  • Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 318
  • Thanked: 460 times
Re: Race to the Stars - Comments Thread
« Reply #89 on: May 24, 2021, 04:24:16 PM »
I'm a bit surprised by the discussion of civilian shipping income, mainly because the kind of numbers Callisto has are pretty typical for all of my campaigns and having a budget driven so heavily by shipping taxation is something I never see. It may have to do with the length of the campaign though?

Probably to do with the length of the campaign. The other four powers have absolutely insane numbers of civilians, 6-9 times as much as INL and CAL.

Quote
I've found similar happens when ships with different speeds try to maintain distances. Usually manually setting the speed of the faster fleet to match the slower fleet works, but often this requires some fancy flying to actually reach the expected range. I usually consider this to be due to the difficulties of driving a 10,000-ton spaceship and mutter some hand-wavey stuff about helm officers.

In this case, hand-wavey stuff about unruly pirate crews without proper military training.

Quote
The jump shock system seems to interact with fleet training level so that a well-trained fleet may not suffer from it at all? The whole system is maddeningly inconsistent frankly. I'd prefer if the current system were replaced by a sensor blindness effect which would prevent opening fire as a side effect, and also make jump point reconnaissance rather less effective preserving the advantage of the defenders, if we must have a jump point system for combat in the first place.

I like that idea. Frankly I have no idea what happened to jump shock or why it isn't working. As far as I read [the rules](http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg113856#msg113856) the incoming ship should have had a minute or two of fire delay. Jump shock hasn't been working all campaign, which may or may not be the real reason nobody has dedicated jump assault ships.

Quote
Quote
Galactic irony has delivered a Japanse explorer with a bounty of immense strategic value: A secret passage into the unprotected backyard of the enemy.

A stabilizer is being dispatched to secure passage for the fleet.

Finally, the conflict expands beyond Venus! Are we on the cusp of our first truly interstellar war between two human factions?

Was quite excited to see that passage pop up, the Japanse have all the exciting dormant JP action this game.

There was actually another funny moment that year that stopped my heart for a bit:



I was already in "Oh no, not this again" mode when the Japanese got that message. Turns out they've managed to detect their own shipyard being towed from Earth as a seperate race named Civilians... thanks Steve  ::)

Quote
In general it seems like Terra has the major advantage of population, they may not have the galactic resource base to effectively fuel all of that population but they can absolutely staff the large number of research facilities and other non-production installations to remain competitive until their enemies are weakened enough to strike against.

In general nobody has population problems, another artifact of the conventional start and the many years of growth time afforded by it. The one closest to having pop problems is Callisto, and they still have a bit of breathing room: A worker requirement of 50m and a manufacturing sector of 70m.

Quote
Interesting deal with Japan, Terra may become a market for "export" designs if some other power sees an opportunity to stabilize, I dunno, a severe financial crunch by selling second-rate technology? Of course, this level of realpolitik only serves to be swept aside by nationalistic enmity...

Given their newly enlarged amounts of research facilities (32 to the PRL's 31) I see Terra as being self-sufficient in the future tech-wise, with the smaller powers being more interested in buying tech, like the INL is already doing. I'd have loved to do more trading in this kind of setup, but the general lack of game mechanics to that effect put up some barriers. Not even the "trade access" diplomatic treaty works :-(

Quote
Interesting design. The propulsion is curious, the individual engines being quite gallicite-hungry but the small displacement used for propulsion keeps the overall cost down and allows mounting a large cache of particle weaponry. The maintenance demands are likely to give Terra serious problems, it looks like they have chronically underinvested in ship engineer training and cannot staff enough engineering bays to reduce overall failure rates. Hopefully, the size and number of weapons will provide a sufficient deterrent.

The propulsion systems ratio is still 26%, I'd hoped to be able to push it down to 20, but that wasn't in the cards.

Never really understood people looking at AFR/IFR however, for a ship twice as big it's simply going to be twice as high and consume twice as many supplies, all other things even. Or are you saying 1.2 years maintenance life is a bit low for a capital ship like that? One of the beautiful things about having a slow doctrine is that you can make fast support ships that can keep up with the primary fleet. Now, if only underway replenishment worked in 1.11...

Quote
Daimonion class Escort

Looks like an excellent design, aside from the magazine perhaps being a bit shallow. This should provide Terra with an absolute hornet's nest of defensive firepower.

Agreed on the shallow magazines, but between more magazines and more launchers, more burst defense potential won with how the known missile users of Mars and Callisto operate. The math works out to the ship being able to defend against two volleys of about 35k km/s speed across their whole defense envelope before running out of ordnance.
 
The following users thanked this post: StarshipCactus, Albacore, nuclearslurpee

 

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78