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91
C# Bug Reports / Re: v2.5.1 Bugs Thread
« Last post by Oafsalot on May 14, 2024, 05:52:09 PM »
Just had a Stablization Ship fly through to a system with a different flag controlled race with the exclude alian controlled flag ticked on the ship.

This had happned before in this game, but I thought I had made a mistake. Seems this bug is still turning up somehow.

Doesn't help they let Swarm out of the system.
92
C# Mechanics / Re: Potential Changes to Shipping Lines
« Last post by nuclearslurpee on May 14, 2024, 04:57:17 PM »

5) Have a simple retirement limit, such as 20 years, so that new ships are cycled in.


Should probably tie this to racial research modifier, or possibly even tech level. So that lines aren't being overly "wasteful" by scrapping and replacing ships with (near) identical copies if the player hasn't made any significant tech progression. 20 Years would probably be a good baseline but if you are playing with limited administration and a 20% research rate, a ship would have a much longer useful service life and could hang around for another couple decades before reaching true obsolescence

I would be very hesitant about any hard cap on years in service from a roleplay perspective, admittedly it is a minor point but in a WH40K setting for example where ships serve for hundreds or thousands of years, it would be odd to have a 20-year limit for civilian ships. Again, very minor and probably not very noticeable but all the same.

Tying the length of time to game settings, tech level, etc. is at least a better solution, therefore. I don't think such a limit is needed in practice, though, if the civilians have an effective cap on ship numbers due to "maintenance" fees then it hardly matters if they scrap ships or keep using the ones they have. Once tech advances then they can scrap the older ships for newer, better models of course, as they do now.

The other ideas in Steve's reply seem good to me.
93
C# Mechanics / Re: Potential Changes to Shipping Lines
« Last post by KriegsMeister on May 14, 2024, 02:36:41 PM »

5) Have a simple retirement limit, such as 20 years, so that new ships are cycled in.


Should probably tie this to racial research modifier, or possibly even tech level. So that lines aren't being overly "wasteful" by scrapping and replacing ships with (near) identical copies if the player hasn't made any significant tech progression. 20 Years would probably be a good baseline but if you are playing with limited administration and a 20% research rate, a ship would have a much longer useful service life and could hang around for another couple decades before reaching true obsolescence
94
C# Mechanics / Re: Potential Changes to Shipping Lines
« Last post by AlStar on May 14, 2024, 02:10:10 PM »
1) Payment based on distance in km, not transits
If you go through with this change, make sure that you make it so that transports will be weighted towards picking routes that make them a decent amount of income, instead of doing Earth <-> Moon runs for pennies on the dollar.
95
C# Mechanics / Re: Potential Changes to Shipping Lines
« Last post by Steve Walmsley on May 14, 2024, 11:59:18 AM »
A very interesting discussion so far. I think the consensus is we meed some type of limitation on growth, although there are different ideas for how to achieve that. I think we need something organic though, rather than an artifical limitation such as x ships per colony.

So far, based on the points made, I am considering the following changes.

1) Payment based on distance in km, not transits
2) Fewer colony ships as a percentage of total ships, although perhaps not until 6+ ships built. I might also make the choice of new ship dependent on which ones are being used.
3) Dividends replaced by an admin overhead that increases in percentage terms based on the number of ships.
4) Payments affected by racial wealth multiplier
5) Have a simple retirement limit, such as 20 years, so that new ships are cycled in.

The above should limit lines without appearing to be too artificial, yet still allow some growth and modernization over time

I am tempted to have something like civilian shipyards, or 'build capacity', or some other 'on-map' capability, but it might turn out to be a lot of work without any major gameplay impact. As we will be travelling for the foreseeable future, which means limited programming time, that probably isn't a good time investment.

I won't be implementing anything for a few days though, so happy to listen to the debate.
96
C# Mechanics / Re: Potential Changes to Shipping Lines
« Last post by Kaiser on May 14, 2024, 11:27:21 AM »
Being honest, I like the way the civilian lines work now and like the experience you are describing Steve because it makes the growth of the empire feel organic to me.

That said, could we add some kind of mechanic where if a civilian ship sits idle for too long the line decommissions the ship? In game it can be explained as a company doesn't want to pay for maintenance of a ship that isn't doing anything. So if you want to decrease the number of ships you just mark a bunch of colonies as stable and wait for the ships to disappear.

I was about to suggest exactly this one. :o
97
Development Discussions / Re: Autorefresh?
« Last post by nuclearslurpee on May 14, 2024, 11:14:33 AM »
To implement an "autorefresh" function for open/background windows.  You can use browser extensions like "Auto Refresh Plus" for Chrome or "Tab Auto Refresh" for Firefox. 

Are you saying that these browser extensions can be used to refresh non-browser windows?

No, "he" is almost certainly an AI bot that got past the Erik filter.
98
Development Discussions / Re: Autorefresh?
« Last post by skoormit on May 14, 2024, 11:05:42 AM »
To implement an "autorefresh" function for open/background windows.  You can use browser extensions like "Auto Refresh Plus" for Chrome or "Tab Auto Refresh" for Firefox. 

Are you saying that these browser extensions can be used to refresh non-browser windows?
99
C# Mechanics / Re: Potential Changes to Shipping Lines
« Last post by vorpal+5 on May 14, 2024, 04:11:45 AM »
Please charge per distance!
100
C# Mechanics / Re: Potential Changes to Shipping Lines
« Last post by Demetrious on May 14, 2024, 02:59:03 AM »
If I may, I'd like to make a different suggestion: the mechanical problem here is the result of a thematic oversight in that the ratio of colony ships to passenger liners is badly skewed from where it should be. I had to open up my last game and check the ship list to double-check - I'd been under the impression that passenger liners weren't being auto-built by civilians at all. Turns out they are... I have two shipping liners, and some 30+ civilian colony ships.

Now having lots of freighters isn't a big deal because, thematically, you should. That's the core of your economy. The majority of an empire's wealth coming from taxing the civilian economy is how you'd expect things to work. Moreover, if your government commandeers those ships you pay for it twice - first, paying them for the shipping contract, and second by missing out on the tax revenue they would've generated from their ordinary runs. Colony ships, on the other hand, don't have this trade-off. They spend their time happily shuttling colonists to and fro just as freighters move trade goods... and once the nascent colony is all filled up, they go idle.

It makes perfect sense for the government to invest in expensive slack capacity (for emergencies such as rapidly setting up a new colony to enforce a territorial claim or rapidly evacuating one due to hostile encroachment, etc.) but it certainly doesn't make sense for civilian companies to do so. The regular market for mass colonist transport just isn't big enough, in my games, to justify 30+ ships. Why this discrepancy?

Because the way colony ships operate - constantly shuttling people to and fro just as freighters shuttle goods to and fro to keep the interplanetary/interstellar economy humming - is a job that should mostly be done by passenger ships.

There will always be poor young whippersnappers looking to make their fortune in New America, and commercial colonist transport makes sense as the steerage-class passage option for them - from the shipping company's perspective as well, because while they can't pay much per cryogenic berth, if you've got 50,000 of them stacked like sardines you're making pretty good money on every trip. With that said, cryogenics are expensive and the government tends to play merry hell with immigration/emigration permissions to suit their own purposes, so the mass colonist transit industry is a bit boom-or-bust. This puts an upper limit on how many colony ships are economically viable for the economy as a whole to produce once you average out the feasts and famines.

Passenger liners, on the other hand, are ubiquitous. Just like air travel on old Earth, long-distance trips are still expensive, esp. when made on the regular, but they're still within reach of the average consumer and many, many people need to travel on the company dime for work on a regular basis. There's a constant flow of traffic between all the teeming worlds of humanity, as teleconferencing is pretty dodgy at ranges of light-seconds, and between star systems is right out (the government charges an awful lot for use of their warp point commo repeaters!) and most of those people are moving about on two-way tickets. And frankly, none of them are keen on being rendered unconscious and stuffed in a freezer every time they want to pop over to Mars from Luna to meet with new clients. Even if they were, putting someone in cryogenic stasis is no trivial matter and there could be grave medical repercussions for entering and exiting cryo repeatedly in a short timeframe - once every six to eight months is the optimistic assumption - a year or more according to pessimistic doctors.

Naturally, the government makes a good chunk of change off taxing the passenger liner business. And just as naturally, when events prompt the government to either authorize mass immigration to a new colony, or mandate mass evacuation of same, passenger lines are quick to jump at the government contracts.

tl;dr Replace a large percentage of Colony Ships generated with Passenger Liners. As companies make more money and build more ships... they tend to build more passenger liners because, economically, there's just not room for nearly as many colonist transports as there is regular passenger service.
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