Author Topic: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs  (Read 2168 times)

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Offline Xanithas (OP)

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Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2022, 01:36:36 PM »
Hello all, Once again thanks for the awesome feedback, I didn't know that's how AFR was calculated (I just assumed it was based on the complexity of the design.  .  .  ) I have updated all of my ships targeting around 150% and kept about x2 the max repair MSP onboard which bought me some room in some cases. 

The Agincourt was redesigned based on the feedback I received on the other designs.   I pulled the bombers off (I dont think they are really worth it since this strike group composition normally would be missile frigates anyway so the fighters might be more valuable to have en mass then the mix I had.   with the space I saved bu pulling the massive search sensor off, the magazines for the missiles I didn't need, some fuel removal, and the change removing one gauss turret along with some shifting in MSP I managed to up the flight deck capacity to 7000.   I changed the complement to include some of the sensor probes I built along with a newly redesigned assault shuttle. 
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Agincourt class Light Carrier      30,000 tons       731 Crew       5,299.6 BP       TCS 600    TH 4,200    EM 0
7000 km/s    JR 5-50      Armour 3-86       Shields 0-0       HTK 213      Sensors 90/126/0/0      DCR 35      PPV 23.56
Maint Life 2.41 Years     MSP 3,930    AFR 202%    IFR 2.8%    1YR 931    5YR 13,969    Max Repair 1050 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 7,000 tons     
Commander    Control Rating 5   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   PFC   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Flight Crew Berths 140    Morale Check Required   

Schorsch & Goley MJD 30k SS5 W3.6kt     Max Ship Size 30000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 5

Organista Aeromarine IFD HS100 P1.05  EP2100.00 (2)    Power 4200    Fuel Use 14.29%    Signature 2100    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 1,206,000 Litres    Range 50.6 billion km (83 days at full power)

Twin Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems Quad Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS RoF4 R10k 1HS Turret (4x16)    Range 10,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS BFC MR96km TS 20km/s (1)     Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS Missile Detection Sensor 1.5M (1)     GPS 54     Range 17.6m km    MCR 1.6m km    Resolution 1
Tortorici-Cugini TS W250 HS5 (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  75m km
Raytheon-Mitsubishi EMS HS7 (1)     Sensitivity 126     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  88.7m km

ECM 10

Strike Group
11x Conqueror Fighter   Speed: 15007 km/s    Size: 9.99
2x Eagle Scout   Speed: 20082 km/s    Size: 4.99
2x Breacher Assault Shuttle   Speed: 15028 km/s    Size: 9.98

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a b for auto-assignment purposes

The assault shuttle didn't receive much of a facelift but more of a size increase.   I upgraded the boarding bay to the small to allow for a total boarding party of 500 troops now between 2 squads.   I think this might be sufficient to complete a boarding action if they work together on some ships but I am interesting in hearing what your minimum boarding party is
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Breacher class Assault Shuttle      500 tons       12 Crew       104.4 BP       TCS 10    TH 150    EM 0
15028 km/s      Armour 3-5       Shields 0-0       HTK 2      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 99%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 22    5YR 324    Max Repair 75 MSP
Troop Capacity 250 tons     Boarding Capable   
Lieutenant    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 1.5 days    Morale Check Required   

Rolls-Royce FIFD HS2.5 P3  EP150.00 (1)    Power 150    Fuel Use 1247.08%    Signature 150    Explosion 30%
Fuel Capacity 23,000 Litres    Range 0.67 billion km (12 hours at full power)

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
This design is classed as a Troop Transport for auto-assignment purposes
« Last Edit: July 28, 2022, 01:43:04 PM by Xanithas »
 
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Offline Jorgen_CAB

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Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2022, 07:15:31 AM »
AFR is pretty much a reflection on the ships size... you will or should not set on a fixed number. A 10.000t ship with an AFR at 100% would be roughly the same as a 1000t ship at a AFR of 10%, sort of, not quite.

That means that a really big ship will always have much higher annual failure rates and if you try to get a 100.000t ship to a failure rate of 150% you will need a huge amount of engineering modules. Also calculate in the engineering skill of any officers, especially if you have an Engineering module on the ship, which all big ships should.

Instead you should look at the average maintenance life (as @nuclearslurpee said) and then top it off with Supplies storage to manage weapons or other breakdowns. Storage take less weight then engineering and is cheaper but engineering is better in the long run, especially for ships that is operating allot like survey ships, warships that mostly sit at port don't need as much engineering as a surveyor does.

In general I look at having an average maintenance time of about 50-100% more than the ships deployment time in engineering modules and then add storage if I need more MSP. Survey ships never get MSP storage, they should use all the engineering they can get.

So, a warship with a deployment time of 9 month would get engineering for 12-18 months and then perhaps some extra storage on top of that.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2022, 10:59:21 AM by Jorgen_CAB »
 
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Offline Xanithas (OP)

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Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2022, 05:33:42 AM »
So this thread has basically turned into a update on my game as I play it but I am learning quite a bit so I figure I will keep it up and see what else I can learn or tips I can get. 

some of my larger colonies are calling for military protection and a few of my frontier worlds are being scouted by the NPR I previously mentioned was to my "North".  As opposed to dropping a smegload of troops down quell the rabble I figured a defensive platform in orbit of some of the bigger colony systems and some of the smaller but more remote ones my ships take longer to get to would be appropriate.   I decided to build a fighter base using the already designed fighters and took another crack at my fighter bomber. 

My design here is built around sending out 2 groups one with x10 Conquers and one Eagle scout and my other is x9 Demolishers with a Eagle as well (I am not sure I need the Eagle as the Demolisher MFC should acquire its own targets so that might just be a spare or a picket fighter).   My plan is to use these with a as of yet undersigned sensor platform near the jump point or perhaps a sensor buoy network near the jump points to capture anything coming in the system.   The base itself is built to have a 25 yr service life (not every colony makes MSP so I figured the deployment time would tick up until I can rectify that) allowing them to be left alone for a while before they need to be towed back to a shipyard for overhaul.   The magazine and fuel capacity was targeting 3 sorties of everything the base has by which time I figure either I will be victorious or they will be on top of me.   For defenses the station has x8 of my tested gauss CIWS batteries since I figure the only real threat this would face would be missiles lobbed at either it or the planet from long range and if a enemy closes to close range I am probably already frakked.   The sensors I choose were to bracket the range of the fighter bomber (approx 50 mill before it needs to come home to refuel) and the missile one to shoot down incoming ordinance, the base also has a passive EM sensor so if someone does come in with their sensors online I will know even if they slip through the other sensors. 
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Paladin class Orbital Defence Base      30,000 tons       536 Crew       4,248 BP       TCS 600    TH 0    EM 0
1 km/s      Armour 3-86       Shields 0-0       HTK 316      Sensors 0/90/0/0      DCR 51      PPV 47.12
Maint Life 25.57 Years     MSP 24,293    AFR 141%    IFR 2.0%    1YR 71    5YR 1,072    Max Repair 180 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 10,000 tons     Magazine 1,105   
Commander    Control Rating 3   BRG   ENG   PFC   
Intended Deployment Time: 300 months    Flight Crew Berths 200    Morale Check Required   

Fuel Capacity 2,500,000 Litres    Range N/A

Twin Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems Quad Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS RoF4 R10k 1HS Turret (8x16)    Range 10,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS BFC MR96km TS 20km/s (1)     Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0

BAE Systems Harpoon ASM R10Mkm (270)    Speed: 61,500 km/s    End: 2.7m     Range: 10.1m km    WH: 9    Size: 4.0000    TH: 246/147/73

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS Missile Detection Sensor 1.5M (1)     GPS 54     Range 17.6m km    MCR 1.6m km    Resolution 1
Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS Fighter Detection Sensor (1)     GPS 900     Range 54.9m km    Resolution 5
Tortorici-Cugini EMS W250 HS5 (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  75m km

Strike Group
2x Eagle Scout   Speed: 20082 km/s    Size: 4.99
10x Conqueror Fighter   Speed: 15009 km/s    Size: 9.99
9x Demolisher Fighter-bomber   Speed: 15018 km/s    Size: 9.99

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a b for auto-assignment purposes

The Demolisher was also overhauled, the sensor was changed to target around 10M (the lowest it would go was 20M looking for a FAC so my thoughts there is if I can see a FAC at 20 ill probably see something bigger at much further).   The missile was changed out to now be much quicker targeting a 7000km/s 100% hit chance and can now be fired in volleys of 10.   This gives the squadron I launch the same weight of fire as my London DDGs which seems sufficient to overwhelm any PD I have seen so far in a smaller package.   10M seems like a decent range as well given I don't think any PD should reach me out that far.   As a result of this belief the armor was stripped down greatly to give me more wight for the weapons.   
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Demolisher class Fighter-bomber      500 tons       8 Crew       117.2 BP       TCS 10    TH 150    EM 0
15018 km/s      Armour 2-5       Shields 0-0       HTK 1      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 6
Maint Life 0.61 Years     MSP 10    AFR 100%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 16    5YR 245    Max Repair 75 MSP
Magazine 40   
Lieutenant    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 1 days    Morale Check Required   

Rolls-Royce FIFD HS2.5 P3  EP150.00 (1)    Power 150    Fuel Use 1247.08%    Signature 150    Explosion 30%
Fuel Capacity 27,000 Litres    Range 0.78 billion km (14 hours at full power)

BAE Systems Harpoon ASM Rack (10)     Missile Size: 4.0    Hangar Reload 100 minutes    MF Reload 16 hours
BAE Harpoon ASM FMFC R20M (1)     Range 24.7m km    Resolution 20
BAE Systems Harpoon ASM R10Mkm (10)    Speed: 61,500 km/s    End: 2.7m     Range: 10.1m km    WH: 9    Size: 4.0000    TH: 246/147/73

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
This design is classed as a e for auto-assignment purposes

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BAE Systems Harpoon ASM
Missile Size: 4.0000 MSP  (10.00000 Tons)     Warhead: 9    Radiation Damage: 9    Manoeuvre Rating: 12
Speed: 61,500 km/s     Fuel: 974     Flight Time: 3 minutes     Range: 10.06m km
Cost Per Missile: 8.5202     Development Cost: 852
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 738.0%   3k km/s 246.0%   5k km/s 147.6%   10k km/s 73.8%
« Last Edit: July 30, 2022, 05:39:03 AM by Xanithas »
 

Offline kilo

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Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2022, 05:45:09 PM »
I would strongly advise to use ground forces when it comes to fighting unrest. They are cheap, use a very much unique resource, as not much else requires vast amounts of vendarite and they do not consume MSP. The fact that they only require wealth for maintenance is quite handy. It is the only renewable resource in the game. Missiles can be killed by ground based weapons systems as well, which can be extremely hard to kill depending on the terrain type of the planet.
This way you can keep all the fleets together to counter enemy fleets more efficiently. On top of that smaller STO gun batteries can discourage enemy scouts from closing in on your planets. Particle beams and lances or lasers are pretty good at keeping the more determined ones at bay.
 
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Offline Jorgen_CAB

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Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2022, 07:31:37 PM »
I would strongly advise to use ground forces when it comes to fighting unrest. They are cheap, use a very much unique resource, as not much else requires vast amounts of vendarite and they do not consume MSP. The fact that they only require wealth for maintenance is quite handy. It is the only renewable resource in the game. Missiles can be killed by ground based weapons systems as well, which can be extremely hard to kill depending on the terrain type of the planet.
This way you can keep all the fleets together to counter enemy fleets more efficiently. On top of that smaller STO gun batteries can discourage enemy scouts from closing in on your planets. Particle beams and lances or lasers are pretty good at keeping the more determined ones at bay.

This might also be a role-play issue to some degree, not everyone are willing to use police force and brutality to control their population...  ;)
 
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Offline misanthropope

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Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2022, 04:45:06 AM »
i mean, there's three headed aliens and stuff.  is it too crazy to RP that your police force uses a method other than overwhelming violence?
 
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Offline StarshipCactus

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Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2022, 07:54:21 AM »
I personally imagine the unrest is more about criminal activity and the population genuinely just wanting a military force to protect them and does not necessarily represent violent civil unrest that needs police intervention. The latter it is a combination of people sending petitions/writing letters etc and local politicians/administrators asking the central government for assets to be deployed equal to the economic and strategic importance of their colony. A mix of ground and space forces is my response.
 
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Offline Xanithas (OP)

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Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2022, 02:30:41 PM »
Hello all,

I had my first actual military engagement with my forces against a fortified precursor planet.  I was able to match them in approx military tonnage (they had 3 auxiliary ships on orbit and STO support on the planet which I learned later) and while I won I realized that either my ships or my doctrine needs a update.  My missile ships performed well however the total concentration of PD and AMMs from both the planet and the fleet made them not helpful until I some of their ships broke formation to attempt to ram me after they ran out of ammo.  My beam frigates on the other hand were absolutely ravaged.  while I did swat down hundreds of size 4 ASMs that the other ships in the fleet fired at me once I got a lot closer I was getting hit by no less then 60 + AMM every 10 seconds with all of the ships in formation firing their PD and 3 Revetment DDs providing AMM defense. The Revetment I discovered is not armored nearly enough and as was told to me here they were focused by the enemy ships AMMs till they had to either fall out of formation due to engine damage or I broke them off due to massive internal damage.  My beam FFs fared better due to their much thicker armor and that the Revetments already soaked a lot of fire as we closed the range but their CIWS was almost useless against their missiles until I could get close enough to silence the AMM platform.  I have a few schools of thought to address the fleets current issues but I figured I would ask here.

The first school of thought is the Revetment having a Jump drive is causing it to suffer and I need a dedicated ship to fill the role of a jump tender for my fleet or keep my jump drives off any ship that might see actual combat keeping them on ships like my ASM FFGs / carriers.  This would free up some extra tonnage for more armor and PD / AMM batteries.  This would address the Revetment's shortfalls but would require me to retool a new production line for a ship I would need to design but seems like a reasonable solution, just a annoying one.

The second school of thought is that the Beam FFs are too small and need to be made 15000 like the Revetment to make better use of the hull.  I feel this is the weaker choice as the ships performed fine once I got into range but if they were bigger I could give them more PD guns and lasers.  Only downside is I would need to expand their shipyard and refit them all again with new engines.

My final school of thought is I designed a smegty PD gun and I need to update it.  I figured I would drop the design here to see what you all think.  I read plenty of discussion on how gauss PD works but its possible like much in this game I didn't understand the finer points and missed something glaring.

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Quad Gauss CIWS Turret
Damage Output 1    Rate of Fire 5 seconds     Range Modifier 10,000
Max Range 10,000 km     Turret Size 5.26 HS  (263 tons)     HTK 12
Cost 42.90    Crew 6
Maximum Tracking Speed: 20,000 km/s

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Guass CIWS Cannon (17%)
Damage Output 1      Rate of Fire 4 / 5s     Range Modifier 10,000
Max Range 10,000 km     Size 1 HS  (50 tons)    HTK 1
Cost 8    Crew 2
Development Cost

Any feedback would be appreciated.  I am still building a light beam cruiser to get a high tonnage brawler in my fleet but I am holding off to re-evaluate my plan (I wanted it to have a jump drive but that might be a bad idea given the most recent ship performance).
 

Offline Xanithas (OP)

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Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2022, 12:13:31 PM »
Hello all,

I read through a few different peoples fleet compositions on here and made some shifts in my intended fleet composition for normal actions. I decided that each ship "class" should have a equal size jump capable warship that can ferry it around and drawing some inspiration I have decided that I will build up fleets of individual squadrons of ships based on class. Moving forward I think I will have all of my capital ships have jump capability as having multiples of these ships of that size in a squadron might be cost prohibitive but that's for later planning.

Enter the saber class jump frigate. Designed to address the shortfall I have noticed in missile defense I have build this frigate to have purely point defense weapons and armor to soak up the hits from the missiles that leak through. This ship also has a resigned Gauss CIWS weapon that extend the range out further and has a slightly higher RoF while also using a slightly larger cannon (25%) in a triple turret.
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Sabre class Jump Frigate      10,000 tons       271 Crew       2,054.4 BP       TCS 200    TH 1,400    EM 0
7000 km/s    JR 6-50      Armour 5-41       Shields 0-0       HTK 100      Sensors 90/126/0/0      DCR 8      PPV 35.76
Maint Life 3.84 Years     MSP 1,527    AFR 100%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 163    5YR 2,449    Max Repair 350 MSP
Commander    Control Rating 3   BRG   AUX   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Morale Check Required   

Schorsch & Goley MJD 10K W1.3kt     Max Ship Size 10000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 6

Schorsch & Goley IFD HS35 P1 EP700.00 (2)    Power 1400    Fuel Use 21.38%    Signature 700    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 532,000 Litres    Range 44.8 billion km (74 days at full power)

Triple General Dynamics "Phalanx" GCIWS Turret (6x15)    Range 40,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 40,000 km    ROF 5       
Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS BFC MR96km TS 20km/s (1)     Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS Missile Detection Sensor 1.5M (1)     GPS 54     Range 17.6m km    MCR 1.6m km    Resolution 1
Raytheon-Mitsubishi EMS HS7 (1)     Sensitivity 126     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  88.7m km
Tortorici-Cugini TS W250 HS5 (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  75m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes

The Revetment FLTIIA was a jump drive stripped version with more CIWS guns and a bigger magazine. The design was made to be similar to my Revetment FLT II to allow one shipyard to build both designs.
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Revetment FLTIIA class Missile Destroyer      15,000 tons       379 Crew       3,249.7 BP       TCS 300    TH 2,100    EM 0
7000 km/s      Armour 6-54       Shields 0-0       HTK 167      Sensors 90/126/0/0      DCR 11      PPV 69.6
Maint Life 2.84 Years     MSP 1,873    AFR 162%    IFR 2.3%    1YR 340    5YR 5,102    Max Repair 525 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 250 tons     Magazine 435   
Commander    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Flight Crew Berths 5    Morale Check Required   

Whetsell Engines Limited IFD HS50 P1.05 EP1050.00 (2)    Power 2100    Fuel Use 20.21%    Signature 1050    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 726,000 Litres    Range 43.1 billion km (71 days at full power)

Triple General Dynamics "Phalanx" GCIWS Turret (10x15)    Range 40,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 40,000 km    ROF 5       
Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS BFC MR96km TS 20km/s (1)     Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0

Raytheon-Mitsubishi AEGIS AMM VLS (10)     Missile Size: 1    Rate of Fire 10
Raytheon-Mitsubishi AMM MFC R1.5Mkm (1)     Range 18.2m km    Resolution 1
Raytheon-Mitsubishi SM1BK1 AMM R1Mkm  (435)    Speed: 80,400 km/s    End: 0.2m     Range: 1.1m km    WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 670/402/201

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS Fighter Detection Sensor (1)     GPS 900     Range 54.9m km    Resolution 5
Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS Missile Detection Sensor 1.5M (1)     GPS 54     Range 17.6m km    MCR 1.6m km    Resolution 1
Raytheon-Mitsubishi EMS HS7 (1)     Sensitivity 126     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  88.7m km
Tortorici-Cugini TS W250 HS5 (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  75m km

ECCM-1 (1)         Strike Group
1x Eagle Scout   Speed: 20082 km/s    Size: 4.99

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes

Feedback is appreciated, later tonight I will be posting a CL and JC design that I intend to build to give me fleet more punching power.
 
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Offline StarshipCactus

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Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2022, 09:29:52 AM »
Those ships look fairly solid to me, but I have not played for a while. I do like the inclusion of a small scout ship. A few of those in a fleet is always handy for many things. I also have small hospital ships and small boarding craft that can fit in a 250 ton hanger that all my frigates have. Hospital ships for rescuing crew or capturing enemy crew and boarding craft in case I see a crippled enemy ship with no guns and I think there might be good tech if I can bring it home. Or maybe just good salvage. If you're having issues with missile spam and you can't shoot them down, you can also build anti missile fighters and deploy them in front of your fleet relative to the missiles, although idk if you can get much anti missile ability out of a 250 ton fighter.
 
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Offline Xanithas (OP)

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Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2022, 12:27:52 PM »
So I see that a new version came out so I will keep going for a few more days to let it stabilize and restart (I was honestly thinking of doing a RP campaign to flex my writing chops but we will see if my job allows such luxuries.) As I mentioned earlier I have designed a Jump Light Cruiser and Light Cruiser to give me fleet a little bit of punching power. I will likely keep posting my designs over here to save them for when I change games to have some known good templates to reference.

The Prosecutor Class was designed to allow squadrons of 5 Light Cruisers to operate independently of the fleet as required and has enough firepower to tangle with most enemies. This design I based around using the 15cm Lasers as the close range fist which I could pack onboard in mass quantities as opposed to using fewer but larger lasers to keep up a larger volume of fire while I close (and the extra range were damage starts to be inflected is very minuscule in practice). Additionally I am packing more gauss CIWS onboard each ship to make them slightly more safe against missiles. I envision these operating with at least one squadron on AMM destroyers and at least 2 squadrons of FFs or FFGs, likely slanting more toward the FFs as they will complement the armament more.
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Prosecutor class Light Jump Cruiser      20,000 tons       606 Crew       4,421.8 BP       TCS 400    TH 2,800    EM 0
7000 km/s    JR 4-50      Armour 7-65       Shields 0-0       HTK 186      Sensors 90/126/0/0      DCR 13      PPV 92.68
Maint Life 3.63 Years     MSP 4,996    AFR 246%    IFR 3.4%    1YR 587    5YR 8,805    Max Repair 700.00 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 250 tons     
Captain    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Flight Crew Berths 5    Morale Check Required   

Schorsch & Goley MJD 20K W2.2kt     Max Ship Size 20000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 4

Wärtsilä Mk1 IFD HS50 P1.4  EP1400.00 (2)    Power 2800.0    Fuel Use 41.49%    Signature 1400.00    Explosion 14%
Fuel Capacity 2,009,000 Litres    Range 43.6 billion km (72 days at full power)

Kratos Defense 30.0cm SSXR Naval Laser (1)    Range 384,000km     TS: 7,000 km/s     Power 24-3.5     RM 60,000 km    ROF 35       
Kratos Defence 15cm SXR Naval Laser (7)    Range 360,000km     TS: 7,000 km/s     Power 6-4     RM 60,000 km    ROF 10       
Triple General Dynamics "Phalanx" GCIWS Turret (8x15)    Range 40,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 40,000 km    ROF 5       
Kratos Defence "Nova" Fixed Naval Laser BFC MR384km TS7km/s (1)     Max Range: 384,000 km   TS: 7,000 km/s     97 95 92 90 87 84 82 79 77 74
Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS BFC MR96km TS 20km/s (1)     Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0
General Electric MCFR PO10 (3)     Total Power Output 30    Exp 5%
CERN International MCFR PO3 (1)     Total Power Output 3    Exp 5%

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS Missile Detection Sensor 1.5M (1)     GPS 54     Range 17.6m km    MCR 1.6m km    Resolution 1
Raytheon-Mitsubishi EMS HS7 (1)     Sensitivity 126     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  88.7m km
Tortorici-Cugini TS W250 HS5 (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  75m km

ECCM-2 (1)         ECM 10

Strike Group
1x Eagle Scout   Speed: 20077 km/s    Size: 5

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes


The bigger and more punchy Vanquisher was designed to accompany the Prosecutor in teams of 4 (1 Prosecutor to 4 Vanquishers) and was designed to have a similar volume of firepower to a few of my Falchion FFs. Armed with a mass number of smaller lasers and one larger spinal mount while still maintaining a respectable 8 GCIWS turrets my belief is that this ship when operating in formation with its fellows would not need support from other ships and acts as my first flag ship. I had toyed with the idea of using a shield on here but I don't know enough about them to know how much weight and armor I can sacrifice to make them worth it. When operating with my other forces it would allow me to break off "Squadrons" that are comprised of like tonnage ships t complete simultaneous objectives without sacrificing collective defense. Additionally with the significant number of smaller batteries and multiple fire controls I feel this might be the first ship I have capable of forcing a jump point if it was guarded with escorts.
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Vanquisher class Light Cruiser      20,000 tons       647 Crew       4,939.3 BP       TCS 400    TH 2,800    EM 0
7000 km/s      Armour 7-65       Shields 0-0       HTK 198      Sensors 90/126/0/0      DCR 13      PPV 127.68
Maint Life 3.91 Years     MSP 5,206    AFR 246%    IFR 3.4%    1YR 540    5YR 8,093    Max Repair 700.00 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 250 tons     
Captain    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Flight Crew Berths 5    Morale Check Required   

Wärtsilä Mk1 IFD HS50 P1.4  EP1400.00 (2)    Power 2800.0    Fuel Use 41.49%    Signature 1400.00    Explosion 14%
Fuel Capacity 1,987,000 Litres    Range 43.1 billion km (71 days at full power)

Kratos Defense 30.0cm SSXR Naval Laser (1)    Range 384,000km     TS: 7,000 km/s     Power 24-3.5     RM 60,000 km    ROF 35       
Kratos Defence 15cm SXR Naval Laser (14)    Range 360,000km     TS: 7,000 km/s     Power 6-4     RM 60,000 km    ROF 10       
Triple General Dynamics "Phalanx" GCIWS Turret (8x15)    Range 40,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 40,000 km    ROF 5       
Kratos Defence "Nova" Fixed Naval Laser BFC MR384km TS7km/s (2)     Max Range: 384,000 km   TS: 7,000 km/s     97 95 92 90 87 84 82 79 77 74
Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS BFC MR96km TS 20km/s (2)     Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0
General Electric MCFR PO10 (6)     Total Power Output 60    Exp 5%

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS Missile Detection Sensor 1.5M (1)     GPS 54     Range 17.6m km    MCR 1.6m km    Resolution 1
Raytheon-Mitsubishi EMS HS7 (1)     Sensitivity 126     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  88.7m km
Tortorici-Cugini TS W250 HS5 (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  75m km

ECCM-2 (1)         ECM 10

Strike Group
1x Eagle Scout   Speed: 20077 km/s    Size: 5

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes

I have been on a designing spree this weekend and have also built up some auxiliaries and a troop dropship I will post here for feedback and reference once I migrate to the new version of the game. I will post them in another post as I feel more then 2 ships per post gets a little cluttered. Once again feedback is appreciated for the CL and the JCL if I missed anything.
 
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Offline Xanithas (OP)

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Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2022, 12:55:21 PM »
Brief update to my game, I have discovered some more Precursor planets a little further afield with very good mineral yields (before my survey ship was shredded) so I intended to move forces into the region and test my new fleet. To support this I finally got around to building dedicated auxiliaries to allow for my forces to proceed outside my local space without fear or running out of gas. I decided to try and design them to move slightly faster then my standard civilian ships while still being fairly quick to allow the fleet to maintain speed as they move along (most importantly they are still faster then any other empire yet countered)

The Edwin Drake (man who discovered oil) is designed around 50kt frame with a full fuel load for a standard fleet (1 JCL, 4 CL, 1 JDD, 3 DDG, 2 JF, 12 FF or FFGs) meaning that it can fuel them full from empty and make its way home. I included a jump drive to allow it to proceed to places that the fleet might move that are outside my jump network and would allow them to act as the jump tender for my other auxiliaries. The inclusion of hangar bays and cryo berths were to allow for it to carry replacement fighters / scout craft and accept survivors / prisoners post battle without the morale penalty. Finally these ships will be the first in a line to include a small navigational sensor suite (for RP reasons) and CIWS to have some poultry defense (honestly if they are shot at I made a massive mistake but its more for RP then anything else). I only intend to include CIWS on fleet auxiliary ships as they are pseudo military in nature (USNS or RFA type designations for those who know western fleet organizations)
 
Code: [Select]
Edwin Drake class Jump Tanker      50,000 tons       381 Crew       2,154.6 BP       TCS 1,000    TH 5,000    EM 0
5000 km/s    JR 2-25(C)      Armour 1-120       Shields 0-0       HTK 67      Sensors 1/1/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 0
MSP 26    Max Repair 625.0000 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 2,000 tons     Cryogenic Berths 1,000   
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Flight Crew Berths 40   

Lepros Drive Systems CJD 50kt W6.75kt     Max Ship Size 50500 tons    Distance 25k km     Squadron Size 2

Lafrancois-Quay  CIFD HS250 P.5 EP2500.00 (2)    Power 5000.0    Fuel Use 1.41%    Signature 2500.00    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 11,372,000 Litres    Range 2,894.8 billion km (6701 days at full power)
Refuelling Capability: 80,000 litres per hour     Complete Refuel 142 hours

Bushmaster MK1 Auxiliary Grade CIWS (5x10)    Range 1000 km     TS: 20,000 km/s     ROF 5       
FURUNO Civilian Grade Navigation Sensor (1)     GPS 240     Range 28.4m km    Resolution 5
FURUNO Civilian Grade Therman Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 1.8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10.6m km
FURUNO Civilian Grade EM Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 1.8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10.6m km

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a b for auto-assignment purposes

The Ambrosia Class is what I plan to accompany the Edwin Drake in pairs and is equipped with enough maintenance supplies to resupply my fleet to 50% from empty on its own and can carry a full war load of AMMs for a DDG formation by itself or 6 full reloads for DDGs Standard missiles when operating in a pair. This ship also contains a hangar deck to allow for replacement fighters / scout craft and when operating in a standard squadron (1 Edwin Drank and 2 Ambrosias) can fully resupply a CVL fighter wing (11 Conquerors) with extra space for smaller craft. As above this ship has the newly implemented navigation suite and some CIWS to keep give it some defense. The 100b range is my standard range for most civilian ships as I could also use these to move MSP around to stock a new bases / ammo from further afield colonies to the front line and allow them to remain on station for extended periods of time without tapping into the tankers fuel stores.
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Ambrosia class Replenishment Ship      50,000 tons       507 Crew       2,895.1 BP       TCS 1,000    TH 5,000    EM 0
5000 km/s      Armour 1-120       Shields 0-0       HTK 98      Sensors 1/1/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 0
MSP 21,036    Max Repair 625.0000 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 2,000 tons     Magazine 2,500    Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 6   
Lieutenant    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Flight Crew Berths 40   

Lafrancois-Quay  CIFD HS250 P.5 EP2500.00 (2)    Power 5000.0    Fuel Use 1.41%    Signature 2500.00    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 443,000 Litres    Range 112.8 billion km (261 days at full power)

Bushmaster MK1 Auxiliary Grade CIWS (4x10)    Range 1000 km     TS: 20,000 km/s     ROF 5       
Ordnance Transfer Rate: 80 MSP per hour     Complete Transfer 31.3 hours
FURUNO Civilian Grade Navigation Sensor (1)     GPS 240     Range 28.4m km    Resolution 5
FURUNO Civilian Grade Therman Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 1.8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10.6m km
FURUNO Civilian Grade EM Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 1.8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10.6m km

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a b for auto-assignment purposes

Again feedback is appreciated. While conducting a flyby of the precursor planet I discovered a fairly sizeable defense with possible STO batteries so my unarmored transports I have been using since the game started to ferry around my garrison units and geological survey teams will likely not survive the approach and will probably not have troop capacity to even establish a landing zone. I plan to design a Drop ship and ground force to load in it and as usual will likely post it here for feedback.
 
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Offline Xanithas (OP)

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Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2022, 02:39:11 PM »
Hello all,

As previously posted I completed the design for my dropship and it turned out to be a behemoth, one of the biggest ships in my fleet. I will also post the units I load in below along with some of my observations for peoples feedback.

The Valkyrie Assault Transport is designed to carry one brigade of troops to the field with the intention to have most of my brigade strength formations operate in groups of 4. The ship has its own jump drive (a controversial choice I am going to assume) for two reason, the first being a traditional jump tender would only act as a burden on the ships speed, and would facilitate me building another massive ship (capable of jumping around 75kt) to baby sit these ships outside my space. the second reason is frankly I don't do a lot of planetary assaults so having these ships capable of acting as a jump tender or bring exploration teams outside my jump network would be nice. 5,000 km/s is my standard auxiliary speed and the ship is armed with some GCIWS defense guns, and fairly heavily armored to protect it as it approaches. In practice I found I didn't need this much armor as I got in and out without really any issue given the relativity low rate of fire the STOs I was facing was.
Code: [Select]
Valkyrie class Assault Transport      200,000 tons       1,514 Crew       9,747.6 BP       TCS 4,000    TH 20,000    EM 0
5000 km/s    JR 2-25(C)      Armour 5-304       Shields 0-0       HTK 315      Sensors 1/1/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 0
MSP 30    Max Repair 625 MSP
Troop Capacity 50,000 tons     Drop Capable    Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 15   
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 2   BRG   AUX   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months   

Lepros Drive Systems CJD 200kt W26.75kt     Max Ship Size 200500 tons    Distance 25k km     Squadron Size 2

Lafrancois-Quay  CIFD HS250 P.5 EP2500.00 (8)    Power 20000    Fuel Use 1.41%    Signature 2500    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 1,522,000 Litres    Range 96.9 billion km (224 days at full power)

Bushmaster MK1 Auxiliary Grade CIWS (5x10)    Range 1000 km     TS: 20,000 km/s     ROF 5       
FURUNO Civilian Grade Navigation Sensor (1)     GPS 240     Range 28.4m km    Resolution 5
FURUNO Civilian Grade Thermal Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 1.8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10.6m km
FURUNO Civilian Grade EM Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 1.8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10.6m km

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a Troop Transport for auto-assignment purposes

My ground units are based around a 50000 weight brigades containing 3 battalions of 12500 weight formations. Each battalion with themselves contain 3 3125 weight companies. My philosophy revolved around the brigade being "themed" around the majority of the units, so for example a armored brigade would contain at least 2 armored battalions with a third battalion containing whatever I deem necessary to support the mission. I my general formations I have mixed 2 armored battalions containing heavy tanks with dual AP weapons and heavy tanks with dual HMGs as my primary striking power with a mechanized battalion which contains "IFVs" (Medium vehicles with medium autocannons and LMGs) and some light vehicle AT to help crack through the harder targets. I could design other types of battalions that are more geared to entrenchment and defense containing more fixed guns and construction units but that seemed counter productive to the current task of invading a planet. Each company sized formation contains a orbital support director unit so each company can receive orbital fire support (more on this later). Each HQ unit contains the standard trucks and construction vehicles along with some static artillery guns, naturally as the HQ gets bigger so does the battery size and support vehicle complement. Some questions tho:

Spoilers ahead as my questions are related to combat encounters against the precursors:
1. My double AT tanks seemed to have issues cracking through the precursor mechs, only really killing them when I had almost 2 companies engaging them simultaneously. My AT tank is rolling double HAV cannons each, are they just tanky in general or am I missing something
2. Ordering my HQ units to support a specific company resulted in them taking horrendous losses where when I ordered them back and to sit on support or rear echelon they were effective and shelling enemy units. is this how they are supposed to work, I just let them shoot at whatever they please and just revel in the results? Additionally the batteries were not all that effective in general, using medium bombardment didn't seem to do much to even the infantry units. My battalion sized formations have 10 guns each and my brigade HQ is rolling almost 50. Do I need to use heavy bombardment? Or perhaps I am using too few guns and should just be happy I am getting my HQ formations in on the action / did I just roll low?
3. My anti infantry tanks are using dual HMGs which seemed super effective at shredding the precursor (and I would assume any factions) infantry but after a while they were left fighting tanks. Do you guys use the HMGs on your infantry killing vehicles, LMGs or the autocannons. The LMGs are a lot cheaper to build but they don't have nearly the penetration the HMG has and while the tanks were not killing every tank they fought they did kill some, which I am not sure I would have if they were just LMGs. The autocannons on the other hand shoot a lot less shots but they have much more pen, which would make them more useful against armor but kill infantry less quickly.
4. The orbital fire support was less then stellar with my ships killing often less then 10 units per round of combat with hundreds of shots. There was even some instances of me having my 15cm armed laser cruisers shooting at ground units without penning them. My orbital fire support unit is just a light vehicle with the fire director attachment so is that the issue? Do I need to make a medium one with 2 directors to increase accuracy? Also is there a preferred orbit to surface support weapon?
5. How do xenoarcheological companies work? I dropped a couple formations of about 5k units 2 1k units of xenoarcheology vehicles and 2 1k units of construction vehicles as I read I needed them to complete the dig. Initially I discovered some stuff but the completion for the site isn't popping. Do I need more units / time or am I missed something. The settlement is a "ruined city" if that matters.

Thanks again for the feedback. I am moving to the new version soon so I figured I would dump my designs here before I do. I designed some new boat bay options for my warships which I would be interested in hearing opinions on.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2022, 03:12:06 PM by Xanithas »
 

Offline mtm84

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Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2022, 12:37:12 AM »
As far as xenoarchology goes, the amount of xeno points the formations on the plant has is the percent chance per year of discovering the ruins.  then each construction unit has a chance of recovering something after that.  A city usually has a lot of stuff to recover.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2022, 12:39:14 AM by mtm84 »
 
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Offline Jorgen_CAB

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Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2022, 06:31:22 AM »
Hello all,

As previously posted I completed the design for my dropship and it turned out to be a behemoth, one of the biggest ships in my fleet. I will also post the units I load in below along with some of my observations for peoples feedback.

The Valkyrie Assault Transport is designed to carry one brigade of troops to the field with the intention to have most of my brigade strength formations operate in groups of 4. The ship has its own jump drive (a controversial choice I am going to assume) for two reason, the first being a traditional jump tender would only act as a burden on the ships speed, and would facilitate me building another massive ship (capable of jumping around 75kt) to baby sit these ships outside my space. the second reason is frankly I don't do a lot of planetary assaults so having these ships capable of acting as a jump tender or bring exploration teams outside my jump network would be nice. 5,000 km/s is my standard auxiliary speed and the ship is armed with some GCIWS defense guns, and fairly heavily armored to protect it as it approaches. In practice I found I didn't need this much armor as I got in and out without really any issue given the relativity low rate of fire the STOs I was facing was.
Code: [Select]
Valkyrie class Assault Transport      200,000 tons       1,514 Crew       9,747.6 BP       TCS 4,000    TH 20,000    EM 0
5000 km/s    JR 2-25(C)      Armour 5-304       Shields 0-0       HTK 315      Sensors 1/1/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 0
MSP 30    Max Repair 625 MSP
Troop Capacity 50,000 tons     Drop Capable    Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 15   
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 2   BRG   AUX   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months   

Lepros Drive Systems CJD 200kt W26.75kt     Max Ship Size 200500 tons    Distance 25k km     Squadron Size 2

Lafrancois-Quay  CIFD HS250 P.5 EP2500.00 (8)    Power 20000    Fuel Use 1.41%    Signature 2500    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 1,522,000 Litres    Range 96.9 billion km (224 days at full power)

Bushmaster MK1 Auxiliary Grade CIWS (5x10)    Range 1000 km     TS: 20,000 km/s     ROF 5       
FURUNO Civilian Grade Navigation Sensor (1)     GPS 240     Range 28.4m km    Resolution 5
FURUNO Civilian Grade Thermal Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 1.8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10.6m km
FURUNO Civilian Grade EM Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 1.8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10.6m km

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a Troop Transport for auto-assignment purposes

My ground units are based around a 50000 weight brigades containing 3 battalions of 12500 weight formations. Each battalion with themselves contain 3 3125 weight companies. My philosophy revolved around the brigade being "themed" around the majority of the units, so for example a armored brigade would contain at least 2 armored battalions with a third battalion containing whatever I deem necessary to support the mission. I my general formations I have mixed 2 armored battalions containing heavy tanks with dual AP weapons and heavy tanks with dual HMGs as my primary striking power with a mechanized battalion which contains "IFVs" (Medium vehicles with medium autocannons and LMGs) and some light vehicle AT to help crack through the harder targets. I could design other types of battalions that are more geared to entrenchment and defense containing more fixed guns and construction units but that seemed counter productive to the current task of invading a planet. Each company sized formation contains a orbital support director unit so each company can receive orbital fire support (more on this later). Each HQ unit contains the standard trucks and construction vehicles along with some static artillery guns, naturally as the HQ gets bigger so does the battery size and support vehicle complement. Some questions tho:

Spoilers ahead as my questions are related to combat encounters against the precursors:
1. My double AT tanks seemed to have issues cracking through the precursor mechs, only really killing them when I had almost 2 companies engaging them simultaneously. My AT tank is rolling double HAV cannons each, are they just tanky in general or am I missing something
2. Ordering my HQ units to support a specific company resulted in them taking horrendous losses where when I ordered them back and to sit on support or rear echelon they were effective and shelling enemy units. is this how they are supposed to work, I just let them shoot at whatever they please and just revel in the results? Additionally the batteries were not all that effective in general, using medium bombardment didn't seem to do much to even the infantry units. My battalion sized formations have 10 guns each and my brigade HQ is rolling almost 50. Do I need to use heavy bombardment? Or perhaps I am using too few guns and should just be happy I am getting my HQ formations in on the action / did I just roll low?
3. My anti infantry tanks are using dual HMGs which seemed super effective at shredding the precursor (and I would assume any factions) infantry but after a while they were left fighting tanks. Do you guys use the HMGs on your infantry killing vehicles, LMGs or the autocannons. The LMGs are a lot cheaper to build but they don't have nearly the penetration the HMG has and while the tanks were not killing every tank they fought they did kill some, which I am not sure I would have if they were just LMGs. The autocannons on the other hand shoot a lot less shots but they have much more pen, which would make them more useful against armor but kill infantry less quickly.
4. The orbital fire support was less then stellar with my ships killing often less then 10 units per round of combat with hundreds of shots. There was even some instances of me having my 15cm armed laser cruisers shooting at ground units without penning them. My orbital fire support unit is just a light vehicle with the fire director attachment so is that the issue? Do I need to make a medium one with 2 directors to increase accuracy? Also is there a preferred orbit to surface support weapon?
5. How do xenoarcheological companies work? I dropped a couple formations of about 5k units 2 1k units of xenoarcheology vehicles and 2 1k units of construction vehicles as I read I needed them to complete the dig. Initially I discovered some stuff but the completion for the site isn't popping. Do I need more units / time or am I missed something. The settlement is a "ruined city" if that matters.

Thanks again for the feedback. I am moving to the new version soon so I figured I would dump my designs here before I do. I designed some new boat bay options for my warships which I would be interested in hearing opinions on.

That ship is insanely expensive for transferring ONLY 50k of troops... I would only transfer my elite troops in that thing... not the regular army guys.  ;)

As four ground combat... you need to consider technology differences. If their armour technology is higher than your weapon technology you might have issues penetrating and damaging them. Auto cannons is a great weapons especially if you have a technological edge in weapon tech over their armour technology.

You need to consider that when you attack if you are both on the same tech level you will need about 3-6 times the power of army over theirs, depending on the terrain of said planet.

When you support with heavy bombardment you should support them from reserve, that does not put them in direct line of fire.

If you kill of all their infantry first you simply did not bring enough tank killing power to infantry ratio... with that said... if you game the game you want to hold you AT tanks back until you killed off their infantry, thus not waste their expensive shots on their lowly infantry. Once most of the infantry is gone you can withdraw most of the infantry killing tanks and bring forward your AT tanks.

You should use infantry with your AT tanks so the enemy AT guns shoot at them more than your AT tanks.

In general I don't like to game the system, so I just design units and formation that make realistic sense and go from there, more role-play than trying to "win" the game.
 
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