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Posted by: nuclearslurpee
« on: October 04, 2021, 09:48:53 AM »

Quote from: ArcWolf on October 04, 2021, 02:40:56 AM
and here i was thinking that making an aurora version of the UNSC Infinity was crazy

Someone already tried to do this a while ago and made decent progress. IIRC, one of the major challenges was that if you try to strictly stick to the canon you want to put only three engines on the ship, which have a maximum size of 400 HS (20,000 tons) each. The actual Infinity is Googles 907m tons so this leads to a very underpowered propulsion section.

In practical terms, the maximum possible military jump drive transit size is something like 2 million tons, anything larger would have to use a jump gate or commercial engines (which would probably have a limit of around 20 million tons?). Otherwise the only limit would be integer overflow, if any, and the fact that such a ship would probably cost several solar systems' worth of TNEs to build.
Posted by: ArcWolf
« on: October 04, 2021, 02:40:56 AM »

Quote from: Droll on October 03, 2021, 07:08:08 PM
Quote from: ArcWolf on October 03, 2021, 05:53:01 PM
Quote from: Droll on October 03, 2021, 03:34:59 PM
Quote from: Blogaugis on October 03, 2021, 03:23:54 PM
Though, remind me, what was the limit of a single ship size? A billion ton?

I have 2.5 billion ton "planetary rings" which are 1bn pop orbital habitats so it's more than a billion.

that's... insane, awesome, but insane.

There's a double sized one two which I force myself to use if the planet is larger than earth. So the largest "craft" I've built is 5bn tons.

and here i was thinking that making an aurora version of the UNSC Infinity was crazy
Posted by: Droll
« on: October 03, 2021, 07:08:08 PM »

Quote from: ArcWolf on October 03, 2021, 05:53:01 PM
Quote from: Droll on October 03, 2021, 03:34:59 PM
Quote from: Blogaugis on October 03, 2021, 03:23:54 PM
Though, remind me, what was the limit of a single ship size? A billion ton?

I have 2.5 billion ton "planetary rings" which are 1bn pop orbital habitats so it's more than a billion.

that's... insane, awesome, but insane.

There's a double sized one two which I force myself to use if the planet is larger than earth. So the largest "craft" I've built is 5bn tons.
Posted by: ArcWolf
« on: October 03, 2021, 05:53:01 PM »

Quote from: Droll on October 03, 2021, 03:34:59 PM
Quote from: Blogaugis on October 03, 2021, 03:23:54 PM
Though, remind me, what was the limit of a single ship size? A billion ton?

I have 2.5 billion ton "planetary rings" which are 1bn pop orbital habitats so it's more than a billion.

that's... insane, awesome, but insane.
Posted by: Droll
« on: October 03, 2021, 03:34:59 PM »

Quote from: Blogaugis on October 03, 2021, 03:23:54 PM
Though, remind me, what was the limit of a single ship size? A billion ton?

I have 2.5 billion ton "planetary rings" which are 1bn pop orbital habitats so it's more than a billion.
Posted by: Blogaugis
« on: October 03, 2021, 03:23:54 PM »

Quote from: Kiero on October 01, 2021, 05:10:03 AM

Applied Science -> Technical and Engineering sciences -> Process engineering
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_engineering

Also, this might be helpful:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_branches_of_science#E

And you'll always end up with waste that you don't know how to use or is converted in a way that makes it unusable.

To this day most of the energy produced on Earth is with a steam turbine (even in nuclear power plants). This process is producing a lot of waste heat.
Yeah, but we still don't have a 1 TN resource to another TN resource converter module/installation.
And Trans-Newtonian resources don't really allow themselves to be conveniently compared to resources in real life...
Still do You think it will stay that way, even as new technologies, giving new possibilities, appear?
Quote from: alex_brunius on October 01, 2021, 04:44:00 PM
Quote from: Stormtrooper on October 01, 2021, 05:33:22 AM
You all talk about renewable resources and all that.. But the resources in this game ARE renewable already. Not in theory, but in practice. It takes only a few planets to have effectively infinite resources

If you think current minerals are practically/effectively infinite you simply don't have ambitions enough expansion plans for the size of your economy, fleets and space stations...  😇
Indeed, good sir/madam/whoever!
My gigantomania is not going to be satisfied by the numbers that can only go down.


So, Wake up Stormtrooper, we've got a Dyson sphere to build!
Ships which are at least 1,000,000 ton size...

Though, remind me, what was the limit of a single ship size? A billion ton?
Posted by: Rich.h
« on: October 02, 2021, 12:50:19 AM »

Quote from: Stormtrooper on October 01, 2021, 06:15:59 PM
Quote from: Rich.h on October 01, 2021, 01:12:21 PM
While it isn't a direct solution to the mineral generation, what if we could have an extra racial modifier "wastefulness" or some other name. Just have it as a flat %, 100% = you get the full amount of any minerals mined, lower and you get a reduction in your mining efficiency.

Well, what it effectively achieves is lowering the accessibility. And it's the mineral amount the planets generate with that's a problem, not acc. Latter could be even raised to balance after reducing the former. Think about being able to mine each world relatively fast, but each giving you way less than you need, making you constantly look for more and build more and more colonies rather than more and more mines on those 100 milion minerals planets.

That's true, so then how about a racial trait that determines how much upkeep you have to pay, as a flat % once again. Higher number mean you will burn through your minerals faster to account for a less efficient society and waste. If possible then also add in a tech line to counteract this as time goes on. It would force all younger empires to grow wide and allow them to get taller as they become more advanced.
Posted by: Stormtrooper
« on: October 01, 2021, 06:15:59 PM »

Quote from: Rich.h on October 01, 2021, 01:12:21 PM
While it isn't a direct solution to the mineral generation, what if we could have an extra racial modifier "wastefulness" or some other name. Just have it as a flat %, 100% = you get the full amount of any minerals mined, lower and you get a reduction in your mining efficiency.

Well, what it effectively achieves is lowering the accessibility. And it's the mineral amount the planets generate with that's a problem, not acc. Latter could be even raised to balance after reducing the former. Think about being able to mine each world relatively fast, but each giving you way less than you need, making you constantly look for more and build more and more colonies rather than more and more mines on those 100 milion minerals planets.
Posted by: alex_brunius
« on: October 01, 2021, 04:44:00 PM »

Quote from: Stormtrooper on October 01, 2021, 05:33:22 AM
You all talk about renewable resources and all that.. But the resources in this game ARE renewable already. Not in theory, but in practice. It takes only a few planets to have effectively infinite resources

If you think current minerals are practically/effectively infinite you simply don't have ambitions enough expansion plans for the size of your economy, fleets and space stations...  😇
Posted by: Rich.h
« on: October 01, 2021, 01:12:21 PM »

While it isn't a direct solution to the mineral generation, what if we could have an extra racial modifier "wastefulness" or some other name. Just have it as a flat %, 100% = you get the full amount of any minerals mined, lower and you get a reduction in your mining efficiency.
Posted by: Stormtrooper
« on: October 01, 2021, 05:33:22 AM »

 You all talk about renewable resources and all that.. But the resources in this game ARE renewable already. Not in theory, but in practice. It takes only a few planets to have effectively infinite resources and no need for expansion besides endlessly spamming mines on them (except gallicite but that is an entirely different topic related to balance in terms of resource expenses for each type and even that can fall under this category if you find 40 million 1 acc world of it).

So, Steve... If you really want the strong drive for expansion to be there, I think the mineral generation system should be overhauled. Waaaaay less minerals, maybe better acc overall, adjustable as well to determine whether you want lots of scarcity and expansion or not.

Tl;dr Currently minerals are renewable in practice and I'd be much happy to see their generation overhauled to make them non-renewable.
Posted by: Kiero
« on: October 01, 2021, 05:10:03 AM »

Quote from: Blogaugis on October 01, 2021, 04:05:05 AM
Hm... what's the name of that science? Any links that we could read up on?

Applied Science -> Technical and Engineering sciences -> Process engineering
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_engineering

Also, this might be helpful:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_branches_of_science#E

Quote
True...
But, according to the laws of physics, resources lost are simply converted into other forms of energy. Energy cannot be destroyed or created, just converted.

And you'll always end up with waste that you don't know how to use or is converted in a way that makes it unusable.

To this day most of the energy produced on Earth is with a steam turbine (even in nuclear power plants). This process is producing a lot of waste heat.
Posted by: Blogaugis
« on: October 01, 2021, 04:05:05 AM »

Quote from: Kiero on October 01, 2021, 01:12:14 AM
You can not dig out time, store it or transport it. That is why it is not a resource, especially finite.
You can set how much you want it in the begining - with the game's limits, setting the start date at year 0001 - you could make it to almost 9000 years. Start it at year 8000 - you have roughly a 1000 year old campaign at max.
However, you cannot change that later on, no technology or any other in-game decision allows you to alter the date.
Quote from: Kiero on October 01, 2021, 01:12:14 AM
Labor, Materials, Equipment is what you work with. Time is an environment.
There is a whole science about it :)
Hm... what's the name of that science? Any links that we could read up on?
Quote from: Kiero on October 01, 2021, 01:12:14 AM
Also, there are no perfect systems that are 100% efficient. Every time you'll lose something due to involved processes.
True...
But, according to the laws of physics, resources lost are simply converted into other forms of energy. Energy cannot be destroyed or created, just converted.

Considering that wealth is... not exactly a real resource, but rather a financial capability (made up of various means like contracts, stock market manipulations and etc.) to attract workers, labor and other resources, it does not follow the typical resource loss and conversion. So, wealth disappearing into thin air - I can accept that.

In terms of actual TN-minerals... where exactly do they go? Sure, they can leave the planet and end up in cosmos - but at this point I'll ask why do we not have 'TN element extractors' - gathering elements from cosmos? Also, while we are on this topic - how exactly the typical TN mines are working? Some folks assume that it must be quite different to the conventional minerals that we are extracting via mining in real life. It makes me think that TN mineral mines are actually magnets, attracting TN minerals, considering that no such thing as pollution from TN mines are mentioned...
Posted by: Kiero
« on: October 01, 2021, 01:12:14 AM »

You can not dig out time, store it or transport it. That is why it is not a resource, especially finite.

Labor, Materials, Equipment is what you work with. Time is an environment.
There is a whole science about it :)

Also, there are no perfect systems that are 100% efficient. Every time you'll lose something due to involved processes.
Posted by: Blogaugis
« on: September 21, 2021, 11:34:45 AM »

Quote from: Steve Walmsley on September 21, 2021, 10:05:58 AM
If you could simply reverse that decision at any point and convert the result back into resources with no loss, then it wasn't really a decision in the first place.
You would have used the resource, that we for simplicity's sake, call time. So, I disagree with Your statement.
If converting resources into useful objects, and doing reverse would not take any time - I would agree with Your statement. As it is now - no, because these 2 operations would still take some time to accomplish. In normal game rules, 5-10 days, when construction cycle finishes 1 or 2 times - 1 for using resources in the object's construction, 2 for disassembling it and getting the resources back.

Time is a finite resource as well.