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Other Games / Re: Ultimate Admiral Dreadnoughts
« Last post by Arwyn on June 27, 2022, 04:02:05 PM »
War at Sea in the Ironclad Age, by Richard Hill is a good starter. It covers from the start of the age of steam to the battleship revolution.
Battleships by Capt. Peter Hore
Battleships by Stanley Sandler

Those are good intros. I am looking for a couple of my other books. There are a couple that get into the whole thing about Mahan and the origin of the big gun battleship design, which actually started with Italy, not the UK. The theory of the all big gun battleship was done by an Italian designer, not the Brits, but they picked up up quickly since Jackie Fisher loved the idea.

The whole period is rather fascinating. While we make a big deal about the computer age, and what a technology shock and disruption that it was, it was not the first time where technology changed things overnight. The whole of the late 19th Century was one of technology changing at such a pace that it flipped the world on its head. In 1866 wars were fought with blackpowder muzzle loaders, 20 years later in 1886, it was with machineguns.

In the case of Ultimate Admiral, it does a pretty good job of showing this tech shock and transition. The pre-dreadnought battleships were developed in the late 1880s, and peaked in 1889 with the British Royal Sovereign class. By 1906 all of those pre-dreadnoughts were rendered obsolete. In many cases, these pre-dreadnought battleships had only been in service for a year or two before they were effectively left behind in the naval arms race. In several cases, pre-dreadnought battleships were completed AFTER the arrival of HMS Dreadnought, and were already obsolete before launching. It also shows the crippling costs of the naval arms race (which is a good analog to Aurora) and how obsolete ships were kept on due to costs, and upgraded where possible to keep them afloat and in service.

In the 1890s, the range of engagement was about 4km but most fighting actually occurred around 2km. As torpedoes got more effective, and longer ranged, gunner ranges increased. By 1904, gunnery was routinely reaching out to 6km, but during the Russo-Japanese war, both the Russians and the Japanese were scoring 12" gun hits at 13km. This was despite the fact that their range finders only went out to 4km (Russia) and 6km (Japan)!

I love the period, and I love the way that a lot of this crosses over into the mechanics we see in Aurora. I imagine that the tech shock in Aurora would be much the same as the late 19th, and early 20th century.
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Other Games / Re: Ultimate Admiral Dreadnoughts
« Last post by skoormit on June 27, 2022, 01:40:54 PM »
...holing her funnels...

(Complete naval warfare neophyte here.)

What does this mean exactly?

The funnels are her smokestacks, yes?
Why does it matter if a smokestack has a hole in it?
Doesn't that just let out the exhaust that was being let out anyway?

On early warships of this period, they ran on coal fired boilers. The smokestacks/funnels had two different functions, they evacuated coal smoke and kept it clear of the deck, and the also allowed air into the boilers for a convection draught. Having your funnels shot away, or shot up meant that the engines couldn't pull air in as efficiently, which reduced their combustion efficiency, which slowed the ship. Having the funnels holed also meant that the coal smoke would be evacuating closer to the deck, which obscured everything to the rear of the funnels, which reduced visibility and accuracy of the guns aft of the funnels.

That's really interesting.

Now I'm curious if/how the design of these steamships evolved over time to reduce the risk (or effect) of losing a funnel.

Are there any books you'd recommend about naval warfare of this era?
I'm sure
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Other Games / Re: Ultimate Admiral Dreadnoughts
« Last post by Arwyn on June 27, 2022, 11:49:29 AM »
...holing her funnels...

(Complete naval warfare neophyte here.)

What does this mean exactly?

The funnels are her smokestacks, yes?
Why does it matter if a smokestack has a hole in it?
Doesn't that just let out the exhaust that was being let out anyway?

On early warships of this period, they ran on coal fired boilers. The smokestacks/funnels had two different functions, they evacuated coal smoke and kept it clear of the deck, and the also allowed air into the boilers for a convection draught. Having your funnels shot away, or shot up meant that the engines couldn't pull air in as efficiently, which reduced their combustion efficiency, which slowed the ship. Having the funnels holed also meant that the coal smoke would be evacuating closer to the deck, which obscured everything to the rear of the funnels, which reduced visibility and accuracy of the guns aft of the funnels.
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Other Games / Re: Ultimate Admiral Dreadnoughts
« Last post by skoormit on June 27, 2022, 11:12:08 AM »
...holing her funnels...

(Complete naval warfare neophyte here.)

What does this mean exactly?

The funnels are her smokestacks, yes?
Why does it matter if a smokestack has a hole in it?
Doesn't that just let out the exhaust that was being let out anyway?
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Other Games / Re: Ultimate Admiral Dreadnoughts
« Last post by Arwyn on June 27, 2022, 09:06:46 AM »
As to the battles, yes, you can auto resolve or control them.

And I agree with Froggiest, its is very much a 3D Rule the Waves, but  its still early access. There are nations planned but not yet in the game, like Russian and Japan, and the campaign is pretty basic right now, essentially you start at war and its WW1. Germany and Austria vs. the UK, France, and Italy.
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Other Games / Re: Ultimate Admiral Dreadnoughts
« Last post by Andrew on June 27, 2022, 06:16:30 AM »
Yes, though I am having a great deal of trouble turning my ships. But thats me and inexperience
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Other Games / Re: Ultimate Admiral Dreadnoughts
« Last post by Garfunkel on June 27, 2022, 06:13:24 AM »
Do you control the battles?
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Other Games / Re: Ultimate Admiral Dreadnoughts
« Last post by Froggiest1982 on June 27, 2022, 03:16:22 AM »
Once completed will be a 3D rule the waves.

I am holding off till then. Following up on the development though.
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Other Games / Ultimate Admiral Dreadnoughts
« Last post by Arwyn on June 27, 2022, 03:10:52 AM »
So, I have owned the game for quite a while, and enjoyed the naval academy, but put it down waiting on the campaign. I just recently gave the campaign a whirl, and I have to say, I have enjoyed it quite a bit.

Typically, the first couple of games left me in dire straights. I then got on Youtube and watched some "hey idiot, your doing it wrong videos" which greatly improved my comprehension of what I was screwing up! :)
Afterwards, I started a campaign as the Austro-Hungarians, and said screw balanced fleets, I am building all battleships to start, and then build the light stuff after the fact. Furthermore, since I knew I was going to be punching it up with Italy and we start in each others back yards, my ships were built with quite short range, and built heavily, to take some punishment. Since its 1890, and plunging fire really isnt a thing, I left my deck armor pretty thin, as it weighs a lot, and put that armor elsewhere. That left me with 10,500 ton 18 knot, 11" gun armed turtles! :)

So, with my starting force of 8 pre-dreadnought battleships and 4 light cruisers, I immediately landed in a state of war and the Italians came looking for trouble.

This time, I actually had my navy contesting the sea zones (important point I had missed before) and proceeded to give the Italian Navy the walloping of a lifetime. Since the only thing I had was battleships and light cruisers, thats what the Italians had to fight. They outnumbered me by a massive amount, so the plucky Austrians had to learn how to punch way above their weight, and do so quickly. Despite being crewed by cadets (worse than green) my first combat was a lone Austrian battleship attacked by two Italian heavy cruisers, who had equally terrible crews. It was dark, and raining, so visibility was awful, and the crews were blind as bats. Both sides discovered each other when some enterprising sailor opened a port hole to smoke and realized there were ships out there!

In the ensuing action, the naval equivalent of a gunfight in a closet, the Austrian BB Otto put paid to both Italian heavy cruisers, including torpedoing one of them no less than twice! (Early torps have range of 900 meters max, so this was knife fighting range), and sailed home to Pola sporting a gaping torpedo hole in her side and yards of burnt wooden decking from all the fires that had been set aboard her.

The Otto set the stage for the fights to come, as the outnumbered Austrian BB's sank several Italian cruisers in the next few encounters. This QUITE annoyed the Italian Admiralty, and owning to their superior numbers, they sent a large force to wreck the port of Pola, one of the two largest Austrian naval bases, with the intent of sinking a good portion of the Austrian Navy and wrecking the port. Knowing they were stuck the Austrians elected to fight, and the small force of two battleships and two light cruisers sailed out to meet the Italian fleet of three battleships, four heavy cruisers, three light cruisers, and four torpedo boats.

The poor bastards never had a chance....

Oh, the Italians I mean!

In a savagely fought action, the BB Otto and BB Wien turned and dragged the Italian battleline into a stern chase, while the two light cruisers skirmished with their counterparts in the Italian screen. Both sides fire proved widely inaccurate at long range (cadet crews all around) and hits didn't start to land until the distances closed. Dozens of hits rained down on the Austrian battleships, causing minor damage and some fires. The Italians seemed to be get the worse of it, as several fires and heavy hits were observed on the leading cruisers, and one of the Italian battleships had a lucky hit smash her forward turret and ignited her forward magazine. The stricken Italian battleship broke off the pursuit, and swung about, bows ablaze.

One Italian light cruiser, and two of the heavy cruisers raced ahead of the Italian battleline, with the clear intent to close to torpedo range of the Austrian battleships. At the same time, the full force of Italian torpedo boats, that had yet to be seen, suddenly appeared on an intercept heading and charged the Austrian battleships. The Austrian screen repositioned to intercept the torpedo boats, and smashed them in detail, but unfortunately this placed them into the line of fire of the Italian heavies, which punished them severely, once Austrian light cruiser was struck in a casement, which had a flash fire that engulfed the ship in flames, and she sunk moments later after massive explosions wracked her hull. The second light cruiser took an unfortunately hit by a random 7" shell to her engine room, causing a fire and flooding, which knocked out two of her engines. As her speed dropped, she became an easy target and within minutes, she was riddled with 7", 5", and 4" gunfire and sank 30 minutes later. Two of the Italian heavy cruisers had slowed to pour fire into the stricken ship, and they soon dropped out of sight.

The Italians only had minutes to celebrate their success, as the cruisers chasing the Austrian battleships closed, the accuracy of fire improved substantially. Almost immediately, both Austria and Italy discovered a fatal flaw with the Italian light cruiser design. In order to meet the cruising range and speed requirements set out by the Italian Admiralty, the ship builders had gone with minimal bulkheads on the light cruisers. In the light of actual combat, this proved to be a disaster. The light cruiser leading the charge on the Austrian battleships took an 11" armor piercing round clean through the front of her hull and it smashed into the engine room, causing carnage and fire, and wrecking the engines. As her speed dropped, she was struck by two more 11" shells at the waterline, and immediately began to flood uncontrollably. She slowed to a stop and sank in just minutes. As she did so, the heavy cruiser following up behind her had to heel over sharply to avoid a collision, and as she did, the Austrian battleships shifted fire to her, and stuck her badly. Two 11" shells stuck her forward tower, killing her captain, wrecking the bridge, and temporarily knocking out her steering. Uncontrolled, the wounded Italian heavy cruiser swung almost broadside on the Austrian battleships, who punished her with multiple hits from the 11" main guns, and dozens of hits from the 4" and 3" secondaries. The badly wounded cruiser dropped out of the chase.

With the odds now down to two Italian battleships, one heavy cruiser, and two light cruisers still in pursuit, things were grim, but not as much as at the start of the battle.

In a repeat of the previous situation, the Italian cruisers raced ahead of the battleships, intent on closing in. Dozens of rounds stuck the Wien, holing her funnels, setting her deck ablaze, and knocking out her upper secondary guns. With one funnel badly damaged, and the second damaged, the Wien could not maintain her 18 knot flank speed, and she began to drop behind. The Otto, loath to leave her sister ship, slowed and the two Austrian battleships steamed along at 15 knots in a close staggered wedge. Sensing an opportunity, the two Italian light cruisers raced in to try and get their torpedoes away. The Otto, only lightly damaged, put an 11" shell into the leading light cruiser amidships, and once again, the lack of bulkheads had the unfortunate cruiser begin to flood. As she took on more and more water, she slowed, and the Otto slammed two more 11" shells into her, right at the waterline. The crippled cruiser immediately went dead in the water, and within minutes, men could be seen abandoning her as she sank rapidly.

Her sister ship, the remaining Italian light cruiser, managed to close as gunfire ravaged her sister, closing to 700 meters, port aft of the Wien. The wounded Austrian proved she wasnt out of the fight yet by slamming both 11" shells of her rear turret into the the brave light cruiser. One shell struck the waterline, opening her belly to the sea, and the second struck her clearly amidships and exploded, causing massive fires internally. The remaining secondaries on the Wien raked the unfortunately light cruisers decks as she fell away, scouring away her guns, raking her superstructure and holing her funnels.

The weight of Austrian fire then immediately shifted to the last Italian heavy cruiser. 4" and 3" shells began to damage her upper works and set fires, and soon her forward tower and her upper secondary gun deck were ablaze. She struggled through the hail of fire, her 7" main guns still in action until an 11" shell stuck her bridge. The cruisers fire control went out, and she swung away, getting another volley of 11" shells amidships before she fell out of range. Now it was two battleships verses two battleships.

The exchange of shells went on for almost an hour, inflicting some damage, but no knockout blow on either side. Then an Italian 10" shell slammed into the stern of the Wien and her speed dropped as a boiler went down. Now only making 10 knots, the Wien was going to be easily overtaken. Instead of abandoning her, the Otto dropped speed and swung about, the two Austrians turning to fight. The Italians battleships went for the kill on the Wien, pounding her with 10" shellfire. She gave as good as she received hitting one of the Italian battleships with two solid hits amidships at the waterline, causing massive fires and flooding. Her fast firing secondaries where scrubbing her Italian foes upper works, and had them blazing. The two Italians relentless pounded her, knocking out her rear turret, then her forward turret. Down to her secondaries only, and blazing from almost a dozen fires, the Wien was in dire shape. The Otto had not been idle, and had hit the Italian battleships multiple times with her 11" guns causing serious damage to both.

As the Italian ships closed in, the Wien managed to get off a torpedo. By pure luck (cadet accuracy is total garbage) the seriously damaged Italian battleship did not see the torpedo coming, and the weapon stuck her just forward of the two previous shell hits. A massive hole opened in her side, and the explosion apparently tore through the crew fighting fires below decks, as the stricken ship went from the fires being controlled to blazing uncontrollably after the torpedo struck. Seeing the massive damage done, the Otto swung about, and switched her fire to the other Italian ship. Broadside on to the Italian, whose stern was pointed at the Otto as she hammered the Wien, the Otto scored six 11" hits in quick succession. The heavy shells wrecked the Italian's engine room, and set fires in her mid decks. Another salvo mangled the aft tower, and knocked out her stern turret. As the stricken Italian battleship slowed, more hits followed as her speed dropped and the Austrian gunners had an easier time hitting her.

As the Otto poured fire into her target, the other Italian battleship was engulfed in flames. Burning uncontrollably stem to stern, the mighty ship suddenly exploded in a gigantic fireball as her ammo detonated. Now with only one Italian battleship left, the crippled Wien and the Otto poured fire into her. The Italian ship still fought back, even as she crawled to a stop, but the weight of fire was telling and as over a dozen heavy 11" hits and hundreds of 4" and 3" shells scoured her, the answering fire slackened and then stopped. Finally, the Italian ship heeled over and began to sink, as flooding claimed her.



Needless to say, that was the end of that fight! I couldn't believe how well the "short ranged, but heavy" philosophy worked. The Wien was a mess, but was still floating. The Otto actually came out of the fight pretty well, one section had moderate damage where a 10" shell had hit, but the rest of the ship was the green of light damage, or untouched. I have to admit, it was a hell of a rush, and I am hooked right now!
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Other Games / Re: Terra Invicta
« Last post by Black on June 20, 2022, 10:16:13 AM »
For those interested, there is series by PerunGamingAU with quite a successful run: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPYJiiMoA0yOMHI-aiB44RQ
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