Author Topic: damage of beam weapons, beam fire controlls and chance to hit  (Read 3170 times)

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Offline kilo (OP)

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Hi there,

I am currently designing a new generation of beam warship and this means I have to make a few painful decisions and I do not know enough about the game mechanics, I guess.

Q1: beam hit chance:

As we all know the chance to hit of a beam weapon depends on your weapons/BFCs range and tracking speed as well as the enemy's speed and distance. How does this look in terms of a formula? I was unable to find it to be honest and I will write down how I think it might work.

cth versus a moving target is:

  enemy speed / tracking speed     ;  for enemy speed > tracking speed, else it is 1

cth at a distant target is:

 (weapons range - distance to target) / weapons range   ; weapons range < distance to target it is 0

cth against a distant target is:

cth versus moving * cth against distant



Q2: anti missile beam weapon choice

Which anti missile system should I bring? Rails or Gauss? For that I need to know the chance to hit of all the alternative and their rate of fire per tonnage. Rails have a RoF of 4 per 3 HS, while Gauss has x per 6HS. For me x = 4 right now, which means Gauss cth needs to be 2 times that of rails or >2 times if you take turret space into account.


Q3: damage drop of beam weapons

How is the damage of any beam weapon at a distance of x kilometers from your ship calculated? I have no idea.

 

Offline Droll

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Re: damage of beam weapons, beam fire controlls and chance to hit
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2021, 08:16:25 AM »
For q2 it depends on the expected speed of enemy missiles and your fire control tracking speed rating.
If a turret with gauss can be more than twice as accurate as a 3HS railgun shot, then gauss - otherwise you'll do better with railguns. This means that your gauss should be able to have more than twice the tracking speed than their railgun counterpart, including additional size from turret gears etc.

q3, railguns damage falloff is dependent on railgun velocity tech - If you have the velocity tech at 60000km then every 60000km the railgun will lose 1 damage.
Particle beams and particle lances do full damage at all ranges
Lasers Im not too sure but the wavelength techs make them do more damage at longer ranges
Mesons, microwaves and gauss only do 1 damage so are also unaffected by range
 

Offline TheTalkingMeowth

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Re: damage of beam weapons, beam fire controlls and chance to hit
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2021, 08:19:18 AM »
Your chance to hit model is pretty much right, except the distance accuracy falloff has nothing to do with the weapon. It's based on the range of the beam fire control exclusively. The chance to hit is 50% at the "range" of the BFC and is proportional as you described.

I believe weapon damage fall-off is also proportional to range; weapons do full damage at 0 range and 1 damage at max range. Then proportional between that. I'm not sure how max range is determined; what Droll said sounds familiar. Note that only railguns and lasers (super sneaky edit: plasma too) actually have damage falloff. Mesons, microwaves, and gauss only ever do 1 damage, while particle weapons don't do reduced damage at longer ranges.

As for PD? Well, the railgun/gauss tradeoff is determined by the # of shots your gauss cannons get, as well as your turret tracking speed. Hull mounted gauss are basically always worse than hull-mounted rails in terms of shots per ton, so the comparison is between turreted gauss and hull-mounted rails. Remember that PD capability is # of shots * tracking speed of the shots; to decide which is more efficient, just figure out how many shots*speed/ton each gives you. Don't forget that gauss don't need reactors (so a slight efficiency advantage) but DO need higher tracking speed fire controls (so a slight efficiency disadvantage).
« Last Edit: January 22, 2021, 01:13:02 PM by TheTalkingMeowth »
 

Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: damage of beam weapons, beam fire controlls and chance to hit
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2021, 12:20:12 PM »
Q1: Beam weapon accuracy, broadly, is determined by:

Code: [Select]
Accuracy = [ ( 1 - target_range / BFC_max_range) * ( missile_bonus * BFC_speed / target_speed ) - 0.10 * (enemy_ECM - self_ECCM) ] * weapon_accuracy

A couple of the terms here of course cap at 1 or 0, but I've omitted that for readability. "Missile_bonus" is any benefit you get from the missile tracking time tech, and weapon accuracy is usually 1.0 for most weapons but reduced-size Gauss will have fractional values. Note that aside from this last term, accuracy is determined entirely by the BFC and not by the weapon (even the weapon range).



Q2: There are two differences between Gauss and Railguns to be aware of. One as you've noted is the number of shots, the other however is the fact that Gauss can be turreted which allows it to use your maximum BFC speed (racial tracking speed * 4x size). A typical ion era railgun ship might have a racial tracking speed of 4000 km/s, thus a theoretical maximum of 16,000 km/s, however if the ships only go at 5000 km/s then this is the maximum tracking speed the railguns can use for PD. You can instead put them into Gauss turrets using the full 16,000 km/s and they will be more effective on a per-weapon basis.

It depends somewhat on your turret, engine, and fire control techs, but generally the consensus is that Gauss breaks roughly even with Railguns at Gauss ROF 4, and becomes a superior PD weapon at ROF 5 and higher. The flipside is that by the time you have ROF 5+ (which is a 30k RP tech), your PD railguns while not as effective are usually able to be strong dual-purpose weapons while Gauss is pretty crap at anything that isn't PD. Thus either is fine.

On the topic of PD it is also worth pointing out that lasers and mesons can also be mounted in turrets which makes them passable as PD weapons. For mesons this is not important because they suck, but if you start with laser techs they can make passable PD weapons with a lot of dual-purpose capacity, although they will never be as good at pure PD as Gauss or Railguns. Depending on what kind of fleets you're up against, laser PD turrets may be "good enough" allowing you to save RP by not investing into Gauss.

Additionally, a mature anti-missile defense strategy should include AMMs if research permits as these can help weaken large salvos before they reach and overwhelm your beam PD.



Q3: Weapon damage for lasers, railguns, and plasma (correction to above comment) falls off linearly with range.

Code: [Select]
Damage = max_damage * (1 - target_range / max_weapon_range)

Other beam weapons have no falloff due to dealing one damage (Gauss, meson, microwave) or being particle beams.

You also want to make sure you are aware of the damage profiles for different weapon types. Plasma and missiles use gradient (1), particle beams and railguns use gradient (2), and lasers use gradient (3). Particle lances deal damage in a single armor column, and the other weapon types do one point of damage and have no gradient.
 

Offline TheTalkingMeowth

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Re: damage of beam weapons, beam fire controlls and chance to hit
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2021, 01:12:30 PM »
Q3: Weapon damage for lasers, railguns, and plasma (correction to above comment) falls off linearly with range.

Shh, no one uses plasma.

Also, you saw NOTHING.
 

Offline serger

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Re: damage of beam weapons, beam fire controlls and chance to hit
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2021, 01:36:41 PM »
I am no one!  >:(
 

Offline kilo (OP)

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Re: damage of beam weapons, beam fire controlls and chance to hit
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2021, 06:24:46 AM »
I have a new battle cruiser in the making, but unfortunately, i hat to regress to an older save, as I updated the BFCs of an older design of ships and became unable to assign their weapons after an upgrade.
 

Offline kilo (OP)

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Re: damage of beam weapons, beam fire controlls and chance to hit
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2021, 02:01:02 PM »
Q3: Weapon damage for lasers, railguns, and plasma (correction to above comment) falls off linearly with range.

Code: [Select]
Damage = max_damage * (1 - target_range / max_weapon_range)

Other beam weapons have no falloff due to dealing one damage (Gauss, meson, microwave) or being particle beams.

You also want to make sure you are aware of the damage profiles for different weapon types. Plasma and missiles use gradient (1), particle beams and railguns use gradient (2), and lasers use gradient (3). Particle lances deal damage in a single armor column, and the other weapon types do one point of damage and have no gradient.

I have to necro my own thread. Just got me some data for laser damage and the formula you mentioned appears to be off. This is what I created during my first engagement with 15 cm laser and equivalent tech level wave length.

180000      0
140000      1
125000      1
110000      1
95000      1
80000      2
65000      2
50000      3
35000      5
20000      6
0      6

This looks like an exponential decay to me.
 

Offline Jorgen_CAB

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Re: damage of beam weapons, beam fire controlls and chance to hit
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2021, 02:08:03 PM »
I'm pretty sure allot of players use plasma... focusing on plasma has a huge secondary effect in really cheap and effective ground weapons technology... this effect should really not be underestimated in importance.

As plasma are so cheap you can get some really powerful plasma weapons early, especially good for planetary defences to be honest where size does not matter much.