Author Topic: C# Meta compared to VB6  (Read 773 times)

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Offline welchbloke (OP)

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C# Meta compared to VB6
« on: February 03, 2021, 03:06:17 PM »
So, after months away from the forum and game, I've finally decided to take the plunge and start a C# campaign. For those of you that have been around long enough, you might remember I was a long time Vb6 player with a fixation on fighter operating races  ;D

My question is, how has C# changed the meta for fighters? Are they viable and what would you consider the tradeoffs/compromises required to run a fighter race in C#?

I suspect I may have opened a can of worms :)
Welchbloke
 

Offline brondi00

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Re: C# Meta compared to VB6
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2021, 03:16:09 PM »
Beam fighter are worse due to loss of the special fire control.  Missile fighters are as OP as ever.

Recon and early warning fighters are much more viable.
 
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Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: C# Meta compared to VB6
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2021, 03:17:56 PM »
Fighters are on one hand as meta as ever, box launcher missile bombers being one of the most straightforward overpowering strategies once can use especially against NPRs.

On the other hand some C# changes have changed things. Beam fighters in general are a bit lackluster although 1.13 will add reduced-size railguns which will make for a more hopefully viable brand of PD/escort fighter. Mesons were nerfed into the ground so the meson fighters from VB6 are dead, buried, forgotten, and only used as fertilizer now. The sensor model has changed to be square-root (area sensor) instead of linear, so engagement ranges are somewhat closer if you use massive sensors on your carriers to spot for your fighter-bombers.

Also depending on which version of VB6 was your last, we no longer have "Fighter Engines" as a specific size of engine, all engines are designed on the same scale with variable sizes (except missiles which do still have one overboost mechanic unique to themselves).

Plasma "bombers" are still hilarious and cheaper now due to RP reduction for plasma techs.
 
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Offline TheTalkingMeowth

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Re: C# Meta compared to VB6
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2021, 03:45:43 PM »
In addition to the sensor changes (which make fighters in general stronger) and loss of fighter BFCs (which made beam fighters weaker), the maintenance changes probably made fighters better overall. Since they can now be supported by maintenance facilities, you no longer HAVE to have hangars for them.

Shields are a lot better now, though, which technically weakens fighters. Both because they generally don't benefit and their victims opponents do, and also because large shields are sort of a counter to box launcher missile strikes.

Also energy PD got better (more efficient use of fire controls) which hurts the fighter missile strikes a bit.
 
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Offline Jorgen_CAB

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Re: C# Meta compared to VB6
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2021, 03:46:42 PM »
Fighters also can be refitted in Naval yards so you can upgrade their fire-controls, engines and sensors.

Small sensors are surprisingly effective so super small sensors scouts with active sensors are quite viable such as a 5t engine and a 5t active sensor. Way better than using a large sensor on your carrier to spot the enemy as you want the carrier force to remain hidden.

Small sensor scouts in general are the most efficient way to scout.

NPR have big problem dealing with fighter tactics in general so you might want to hold back in too much carrier operation eccentric forces to keep the NPR somewhat a threat.

Both sensors and missile ranges have been reduced quite significantly. Small missiles generally lack good range now versus larger missiles especially if you want high speed missiles they will have very short range, good for point blank combat still though.

Shorter range of missiles will leave missile ships more vulnerable to being chased down by superior beam ships.

Fighters in general also have much less range unless you want them to go slower so there is a real trade off between long and short range fighters.

It takes much longer to rearm missiles in hangars now but there is a command and control module which add a flight controller officer to reduce load times.
 
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Offline froggiest1982

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Re: C# Meta compared to VB6
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2021, 03:59:57 PM »
Also, besides the meta, I think the biggest change you'll find is in the management due to the disappearing of parasites screen and fighter squadrons mechanic. That is big change coming from VB6 along other small mechanics already highlighted.

Fighters are now handled as single entity and possible to merge via fleet same as ships and similarly to VB6 still.

Everything now is handled by sub-fleets and escorts (you still have all mothership commands though so that is good too) and you should read the change on this here http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=11593.msg140285#msg140285  and Admin commands for organization here http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg103849#msg103849

Eventually, you can use fighters to support ground invasions with mechanics here http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg109886#msg109886 and on the specific weapons and pods here http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg109885#msg109885
« Last Edit: February 03, 2021, 04:08:41 PM by froggiest1982 »
 
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Offline xenoscepter

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Re: C# Meta compared to VB6
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2021, 04:00:59 PM »
 - 1.13 will also introduce single weapon Beam FCS, which is functionally identical to the old VB6 Fighter-Only Beam FCS, but instead of being well... fighter only, it can only control one weapon. For Beam Fighter this won't really be a problem, since you can't really fit that many guns on one to begin with, and the ones that you CAN fit are typically turret compatible, so using a 0km/s turret can be a way to stuff two or three, say tiny gauss guns or something. The trade-off of course being that you can't split your fire and have to fire all the guns.

 - Box Launcher spam is of course in full force, and with the introduction of Maintenance Storage Bays that are >250 Tons, you can make some really good long-range strategic bombers. Reduced tech Launchers of all types are now a starting tech for both TN and Conventional starts, furthering this. The sensor model has also changed drastically, in VB6 it was radius based, AKA the range displayed was the range of sight in every direction. Now in C# it is the total area of the sensor, creating diminishing returns for larger sensors and by extension buffing fighter-sized sensors, that is sensors that are >500 tons.

 - New engine mechanics allow for >50 ton models and have gotten a general increase in granularity with regards to potential size. This let's you really fine tune your engines, and in addition there is a new Fighter Sized Fuel Storage which is 1 ton and provides a mere 1,000 litres. This allows for even more control over the size of your fighter craft. Add in the Fighter Pod Bays and Ground Support Fighter mechanics and it is indeed a good day to be a fighter-centric navy! ;D And that is to say nothing of the teeny-tiny 120(?) ton Boarding Bay for building fighter-sized boarding craft!
 
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Offline Rince Wind

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Re: C# Meta compared to VB6
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2021, 04:10:12 PM »
If you don't need extrem speed you can fit the 250t boarding bay in a fighter.
 
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Offline welchbloke (OP)

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Re: C# Meta compared to VB6
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2021, 04:10:22 PM »
Also, besides the meta, I think the biggest change you'll find is in the management due to the disappearing of parasites and fighter squadrons. That is big change coming from VB6 along other small mechanics already highlighted.

Fighters are now handled as single entity and possible to merge via fleet same as ships and similarly to VB6 still.

Everything now is handled by sub-fleets and escorts (you still have all mothership commands though so that is good too) and you should read the change on this here http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=11593.msg140285#msg140285  and Admin commands for organization here http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg103849#msg103849

Eventually, you can use fighters to support ground invasions with mechanics here http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg109886#msg109886 and on the specific weapons and pods here http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg109885#msg109885
Thanks for the links, I will definitely read them before creating my Navy and still make loads of design errors; but hey that's half the fun  8)
Welchbloke
 

Offline xenoscepter

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Re: C# Meta compared to VB6
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2021, 04:14:34 PM »
If you don't need extrem speed you can fit the 250t boarding bay in a fighter.

 - True, but then again when it comes to boarding "Gotsa Go Fest" is usually the order of the day. :)
 
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Offline Rince Wind

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Re: C# Meta compared to VB6
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2021, 10:00:41 AM »
In my current game I try to blind my enemies with HPMs and then mostly use lighter weapons to try and disable their engines. About 50% blow up, but that is war.
 
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