Author Topic: v2.0.0 Changes Discussion Thread  (Read 125548 times)

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Offline LuuBluum

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Re: v1.14.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #390 on: November 30, 2021, 09:04:24 PM »
How does this on-demand promotion system work with admin commands if there are gaps? Let's say the highest rank I can drum up from my fleet is a commodore, but my lowest-rank admin command that's currently vacant wants a vice admiral. Would it simply never be filled until a commodore is promoted (manually, or automatically if some other position were created for them) to rear admiral?

The situation you're describing can only happen if the player has manually set the lowest-rank admin commands to a rank that is more than one higher than the highest rank ship posts on existing ships.

Which prompts a counter-question: Are you actually worried about this, or are you wondering if this new system is fool-proof?

Actually worried about it. If I have task groups in my fleet with a minimum admin command rank (going off of the American system here) of rear admiral lower half, but want the fleet above commanded by a vice admiral (so that the task groups would be led by a mix of rear admirals of both sorts), that would pose a problem. While either sort of rear admiral could fit those slots easily, no one would ever be promoted when in those roles unless I explicitly had roles set about for only rear admirals.

I suppose the way to "solve" that is to simply elevate your more important task groups to have a higher minimum and doing some manual promotions, but that specific edge-case might pose a problem if it isn't kept on top of.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2021, 09:35:13 PM by LuuBluum »
 

Offline Density

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Re: v1.14.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #391 on: November 30, 2021, 10:11:23 PM »
*snip*
Let's say, for this example, you have somewhere in your ranks Commodore, Rear Adm, Vice Adm, in that order with no other ranks between.
Now lets say you aren't manually assigning minimum ranks to naval admin commands and aren't marking officers as "do not promote."
In this situation, for an admin post to require a Vice Adm, it has to have a direct subordanant post that requires a Rear Adm (whether that is another naval admin, or a post on a ship). If that Vice Adm admin post is open, a Rear Adm who is currently filling a Rear Adm post will get promoted. If there are no Rear Adms anywhere at all, then there is de facto at least one open Rear Adm post for a Commodore to get promoted into, who will then get promoted for the Vice Adm post on the next construction cycle.

For the kind of gaps you're talking about, you would have had to accidentally or intentionally manually set your naval admins to include such a gap, or have had to mark all existing officers of a given rank (such as all your Rear Adms in the example above) as "do not promote." In other words, it is literally a problem you have to micromanage yourself into.

The key thing to remember is that officers don't have to only be promoted to their direct superior's job. In your second post about this, you're describing a Vice Adm in a naval admin post who is directly superior to other naval admins who are either rear upper or rear lower. In this case, a rear upper would get the promotion if that vice post is open (but not necessarilly one of the rear uppers that was in that part of the hierarchy), which would open a rear upper post for a rear lower (likewise, from anywhere in the hierarchy) and so on.
 
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Offline LuuBluum

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Re: v1.14.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #392 on: November 30, 2021, 10:33:19 PM »
Aah, I see. I forgot that promotions could go all over the place in the hierarchy; as long as I have some rear admiral posting, somewhere, everything should be fine. Thank you.
 

Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: v1.14.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #393 on: December 01, 2021, 12:28:30 AM »
As a rule in Aurora, the mechanics are designed to work smoothly if you leave them alone (most of the time), but to never ever prevent the player from digging themselves a hole too deep of their own chosen size and shape.  ;)
 

Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: v1.14.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #394 on: December 01, 2021, 04:47:26 AM »
Just to clarify, if the first search is unsuccessful and the second search doesn't find an officer with the relevant bonus, does the position stay open?
Will a commander with no relevant bonus be selected due to their political bonus as part of either search?

One other thing, does disabling the political bonus in game settings mean it isn't considered for existing officers, or does it only stop new officers from aquiring the bonus when they spawn graduate?

Yes, the position stays open. Political bonus only matters if the commander has the primary bonus. Political bonus setting affects commander generation and skill increase. Turning it off doesn't remove existing bonuses.
 
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Offline TMaekler

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Re: v1.14.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #395 on: December 01, 2021, 05:16:58 AM »
Do I understand the new system correctly when I state that the upper ranks will always be filled (except there is no officer with a fitting bonus)?

If so can it happen that we are going to run out of lower ranks if there are not enough academies?
 

Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: v1.14.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #396 on: December 01, 2021, 06:29:01 AM »
Do I understand the new system correctly when I state that the upper ranks will always be filled (except there is no officer with a fitting bonus)?

If so can it happen that we are going to run out of lower ranks if there are not enough academies?

Yes, that could be the result.
 

Offline cdrtwohy

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Re: v1.14.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #397 on: December 01, 2021, 07:14:24 AM »
Quote
If so can it happen that we are going to run out of lower ranks if there are not enough academies?

while true I don't really see this happening very often especially with the changes to the academies and truthfully i'd rather have this issue then the issue we have now where we have way to many lower rank officers for the amount of Senior officers we need especially if you play like i do and model the entire officer core from O1s to O10s
 

Offline Lornalt

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Re: v1.14.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #398 on: December 01, 2021, 09:29:11 AM »
Quote
If so can it happen that we are going to run out of lower ranks if there are not enough academies?

while true I don't really see this happening very often especially with the changes to the academies and truthfully i'd rather have this issue then the issue we have now where we have way to many lower rank officers for the amount of Senior officers we need especially if you play like i do and model the entire officer core from O1s to O10s

Slightly off topic but how do you model the O-1 to O-6 to fit in a ship class? Considering that a warship with senior co option ticked only allows up to R4 which would be O-4?
 

Offline cdrtwohy

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Re: v1.14.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #399 on: December 01, 2021, 09:58:11 AM »
Quote
Slightly off topic but how do you model the O-1 to O-6 to fit in a ship class? Considering that a warship with senior co option ticked only allows up to R4 which would be O-4?

Ill admit it does break down a bit but so does the having LCDR and CDRs command fighters and gun ships, what i use is the junior officers command Civilian ships, small craft and utilize things like the CIC, Aux Control ect to raise the minimum rank required to command, Ground side is much much easier, i know that the game is technically supposed to have your O1s-O3s simulated as generic Crew but the fact that our O4s are 22 years old always rubs me the wrong way, I also consider unassigned O1s to O3s as being Division heads on larger ships when i get to that stage of the game, its not perfect but really no system of officer structures are without giving us massive massive micro to do
 

Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: v1.14.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #400 on: December 01, 2021, 10:01:28 AM »
Ill admit it does break down a bit but so does the having LCDR and CDRs command fighters and gun ships,

This is why I always use a LT rank when I do a carrier-based fleet doctrine.

Quote
i know that the game is technically supposed to have your O1s-O3s simulated as generic Crew but the fact that our O4s are 22 years old always rubs me the wrong way,

@Steve plz
 

Offline Steve Walmsley (OP)

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Re: v1.14.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #401 on: December 01, 2021, 10:41:31 AM »
i know that the game is technically supposed to have your O1s-O3s simulated as generic Crew but the fact that our O4s are 22 years old always rubs me the wrong way,

@Steve plz

It depends on how I handle starting commanders. If I set up a 2:1 starting ratio, then I could assign different ages to higher ranks. If I let it work organically with everyone starting at the bottom rank, then everyone would need to start at a similar age.
 

Offline Vandermeer

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Re: v1.14.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #402 on: December 01, 2021, 11:02:42 AM »
It depends on how I handle starting commanders. If I set up a 2:1 starting ratio, then I could assign different ages to higher ranks. If I let it work organically with everyone starting at the bottom rank, then everyone would need to start at a similar age.
If the decision lands on higher starting ages, then, since promotions aren't guaranteed, maybe there could be some randomized range to the starting age.
playing Aurora as swarm fleet: Zen Nomadic Hive Fantasy
 

Offline smoelf

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Re: v1.14.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #403 on: December 01, 2021, 11:05:35 AM »
I'm wondering if it might be useful to implement a minimum ratio, like you also mentioned here: http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=12847.msg157286#msg157286 - simply to ensure there are people to choose from when promoting. Looking at my own current game, there are ranks where I currently have no officers employed. The officers who have jobs are:

R1: 3 out of 4
R2: 0 out of 8
R3: 4 out of 16
R4: 3 out of 32

What happens when all my R2 officers retire? Without a minimum ratio, if there are no jobs, there won't be promotions, which also means I won't get new R1 officers once the R2 officers have retired, since there are no officers to promote. I think I'd prefer to not have to create artificial admin commands to ensure the right number of jobs at all levels. Or perhaps this is just the way to go? Creating admin commands as career pathways for specific skills? I usually have a very simple command structure, so I'm a bit hesistant at the thought of needing a more complex structure simply to create more jobs, but perhaps I'll just have to bit the bullet, if there isn't a minimum ratio.
 

Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: v1.14.0 Changes Discussion Thread
« Reply #404 on: December 01, 2021, 11:25:23 AM »
It depends on how I handle starting commanders. If I set up a 2:1 starting ratio, then I could assign different ages to higher ranks. If I let it work organically with everyone starting at the bottom rank, then everyone would need to start at a similar age.

If the starting age was even just shifted up to 30 or 40 it would probably be okay. Really the major issue is that absolutely no army colonel, ship captain, lead scientist, or colony governor should be 21 years old unless we are roleplaying some serious nepotism problems. 30 might be a bit young for some of these jobs but it is a lot better as an approximation.