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Posted by: Black
« on: March 02, 2021, 03:53:31 AM »

I usually scrap salvaged components. You may decide to build some special ship if the components are much higher tech-level than your ships. But it does not seem that useful to retool or build  shipyard for one or two ships.

If I manage to capture larger number of same alien design (that would be most likely Precursor ships). I sometimes make partial refit to keep them in service with my navy. In my current game I had mostly missile ships, so captured beam ships (railgun and gauss) were useful boost for point defence or jump point assault role and I did partial refit with shields. Engine refits are also possibility but engines are quite costly so it depends on your situation.
Posted by: Jorgen_CAB
« on: March 02, 2021, 02:55:07 AM »

Quote from: Stormtrooper on March 01, 2021, 07:29:46 PM
But if I can't build ships without these components then the number I can build is limited and thus I'm better off extracting minerals out of these components and building my designs.

This is entirely up to you... the game currently work as said. You don't get any advantage from alien components from which you already have the necessary main technology. You still have to design such a component yourself and spend the research on it. You are mostly better off by taking the minerals.

I would agree that if you have the main technology you should perhaps automatically get some points in the component tech if you disassemble the them. So you can research those components for less RP, but that is not how it currently work. You could make this a suggestion in the suggestion thread though.
Posted by: Stormtrooper
« on: March 01, 2021, 07:29:46 PM »

But if I can't build ships without these components then the number I can build is limited and thus I'm better off extracting minerals out of these components and building my designs.
Posted by: StarshipCactus
« on: March 01, 2021, 07:27:27 PM »

You can salvage alien wrecks to get their ship components too right?
Posted by: Stormtrooper
« on: March 01, 2021, 04:06:11 PM »

In such case engineers would probably create human-usable replacements producing same "output" as the "alien" tech and thus would still be able to build alien ship, only a bit refitted here and there for ease of construction.

Also, if the tech was truly alien, sure... But in that case there were none that could be called as such and I don't think physics of laser beams or fusion reactors changes of you eveloved on a different planet.
Posted by: Kylemmie
« on: March 01, 2021, 02:59:00 PM »

Quote from: Stormtrooper on March 01, 2021, 01:43:06 PM
Yeah my scientists working on building far xray lasers definitely can't figure out soft xray laser design and researching how this technology works is beyond their capability.

Very realistic.  8)

What I meant is that if they're of lower tech than I am then it should be easy enough to figure out without much trouble.

I apologize for my poor communication skills as that was not my point at all and I completely screwed the pooch if that was the takeaway.

Part of it may be that I was not aware that there are alien Tech's that do not ever tie into our available tech line. I had assumed the opposite. Since the mechanic was there to capture, examine and get RP - I didn't even think about there being a non-usable tech line. And too Noob to have stumbled across them to capture I guess.

I thought the convo was about mass producing an Alien Component for self use. In that case, I think my point is even stronger. If it's an Alien Tech that doesn't tie into the known Sciences of your empire in any way....In fact it's so unknown it's a new Science....Alien Science.  You can research the captured component and figure what it does and mostly how it does it....but it's still doing it in a completely foreign way to your current science and manufacturing base. While it's 'output' may appear to be of a 'lower tech' scale than you are currently in, doesn't mean the Alien Science behind it is reproduceable on a mass scale.


Posted by: serger
« on: March 01, 2021, 02:03:43 PM »

Try to replicate medieval mongol bow in less then several years. And it's one pre-industrial tech line...
Posted by: Stormtrooper
« on: March 01, 2021, 01:43:06 PM »

Yeah my scientists working on building far xray lasers definitely can't figure out soft xray laser design and researching how this technology works is beyond their capability.

Very realistic.  8)

What I meant is that if they're of lower tech than I am then it should be easy enough to figure out without much trouble.
Posted by: Kylemmie
« on: March 01, 2021, 01:11:00 PM »

Quote from: Stormtrooper on March 01, 2021, 11:33:18 AM
Seems silly given the fact they're literally the same or lower tech than me and yet i can't build them and need to fight with tedious workarounds... Anyways, thanks, maybe I'll poke at db once again or maybe I'll just create copy class, retooling can be done with sm i guess so i don't have to do it for the second time.

To me it makes sense. With captured components you can do two things. Take it apart and learn from it, or shoehorn it into a ship of yours using some rigged up interface to integrate it into that ship. But the widgets themselves are of Alien design and manufacture. They use the Metric System and you use Lilliputian methods of measurement. Everything is off by 1/35th of a smidge. Plus their method of controlling power flow is slightly different. But different enough that all your standard Shipboard Alarms constantly read it as about to blow the ship up even when there is no danger. Now you need to re-design your whole Shipbpoard Power Supply system for your entire empire.  None of your high tech machines can match the exact parameters without redoing your production line from the basic screws on up. Just not feasible imo.

It's from a completely different Industry Base. Using the 'lower tech' angle....If a modern country wanted to build a line of tanks based on a captured WWII era Panzer. they would have to  rebuild that entire sector. Current Factories producing Engines Turbines for current modern tanks would be useless.

Designing your own widget making use of your current manufacturing base is how it's modeled and reflects reality I think.
Posted by: Stormtrooper
« on: March 01, 2021, 11:33:18 AM »

Seems silly given the fact they're literally the same or lower tech than me and yet i can't build them and need to fight with tedious workarounds... Anyways, thanks, maybe I'll poke at db once again or maybe I'll just create copy class, retooling can be done with sm i guess so i don't have to do it for the second time.
Posted by: serger
« on: March 01, 2021, 10:43:49 AM »

No tech - no prod.

That's it - you cannot produce components, you have no tech for, even with SM.
Technically some part of invader's specific techs can be reverse-engineered from captured components, if you capture enough of them, but I'm not sure if all of them are reverse-engineerable. It's very unlikely you can take all that techs from one or several captured ships, so I don't think it's easy to duplicate this design.
Posted by: Zap0
« on: March 01, 2021, 10:40:30 AM »

Yup, but then you still have to retool the shipyard, which would likely be expensive as all the components are different.

You can also add the alien techs to your racial tech list in the db. Then, because they're "your techs", you can build them (in shipbuilding or component prefab) yourself and use the captured ship design.
Posted by: Stormtrooper
« on: March 01, 2021, 10:35:17 AM »

So basically the only way would be to design my components that'd be literally the same, research them with sm and then build a copy class with the exact same design to get what i want?
Posted by: Zap0
« on: March 01, 2021, 10:33:21 AM »

Quote from: Stormtrooper on March 01, 2021, 10:19:57 AM
is there a way to spawn those components with sm then?

No

Quote from: Stormtrooper on March 01, 2021, 10:19:57 AM
whatever "conquest" is supposed to mean

Capturing a population with ground troops. Afaik invaders don't have pops, and I don't think even normal NPRs produce components into storage.

Quote from: Stormtrooper on March 01, 2021, 10:19:57 AM
And if I get my hands on them, will I be able to research them or whatever so I won't need to get more each time I want to build a new ship?

No
Posted by: Stormtrooper
« on: March 01, 2021, 10:19:57 AM »

is there a way to spawn those components with sm then? And if I get my hands on them (whatever "conquest" is supposed to mean), will I be able to research them or whatever so I won't need to get more each time I want to build a new ship?