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Posted by: serger
« on: July 27, 2021, 02:30:56 AM »

Do note, by the way, that while your research points have gone to several different beam, kinetic and missile techs - my research investment, on the contrary, was concentrated on my main weapon, so it has slightly better capacitors. And with this caliber and tech level slightly better capacitors means twice better rate of fire. Still spend about two times less research points then you.

It isn't a ship design feature strictly, it's just a weapon design fineness, yet my ship design paradigm is suited for such tricks well, exactly because of research points economy.
Posted by: serger
« on: July 27, 2021, 12:45:27 AM »

Quote from: Blogaugis on July 26, 2021, 01:37:03 PM
As for Iltis...

Code: [Select]
Iltis G2 class Frigate      5,000 tons       140 Crew       609.5 BP       TCS 100    TH 250    EM 60
2500 km/s      Armour 4-26       Shields 2-150       HTK 36      Sensors 2/2/0/0      DCR 5      PPV 28.8
Maint Life 10.42 Years     MSP 1,096    AFR 40%    IFR 0.6%    1YR 18    5YR 276    Max Repair 125 MSP
Troop Capacity 100 tons     Magazine 115   
Captain    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 1.25 months    Morale Check Required   

G4-ME Improved Nuclear Pulse Engine  EP250.00 (1)    Power 250    Fuel Use 44.27%    Signature 250    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 100,000 Litres    Range 8.1 billion km (37 days at full power)
G1-SSG Alpha S1 / R150 Shields (2)     Recharge Time 150 seconds (0 per second)

G2-SLT Single G2-HS3 10cm C1.5 Visible Light Laser Turret (2x1)    Range 60,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 3-1.5     RM 20,000 km    ROF 10       
G2-SGCT Single G2-HS6-GC Gauss Cannon R300-100 Turret (1x3)    Range 30,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
G2-ESBFC Beam Fire Control R64-TS12000 (70%) (1)     Max Range: 64,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     84 69 53 38 22 6 0 0 0 0
G2-SWSBFC Beam Fire Control R32-TS12000 (SW) (70%) (1)     Max Range: 32,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     69 38 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
G3-O3PP Improved Pebble Bed Reactor R3 (1)     Total Power Output 3    Exp 5%

G1-.3ML Size 5 Missile Launcher (30.0% Reduction) (8)     Missile Size: 5    Rate of Fire 6710
G1-SSMFC Missile Fire Control FC32-R50 (70%) (1)     Range 32.2m km    Resolution 50
G4DF (23)    Speed: 15,600 km/s    End: 27.1m     Range: 25.4m km    WH: 4    Size: 5    TH: 52/31/15

G3-SMASS Active Search Sensor AS6-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 16     Range 6.4m km    MCR 574.5k km    Resolution 1
G3-SSASS Active Search Sensor AS23-R50 (70%) (1)     GPS 800     Range 23.5m km    Resolution 50
.4EMS EM Sensor EM0.4-2.0 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 2     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  11.2m km
.4TS Thermal Sensor TH0.4-2.0 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 2     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  11.2m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes
I have some doubts - it's laser range is greater than Yours, so it should be able to retaliate at least.

Iltis will have a decent probability to do first salvo - yet just one salvo, because my Star Hawk will chase with 5.5kkm/s speed advantage, 5.5 kkm/s * 10 sec = 55 kkm, and so there is no range any more in the next tick. So at long range - it will be 2 shots with 1 damage each - not enough even to significantly damage Star Hawk's armor, so no significant advantage.
You need a speed advantage to use range advantage (to kite) in beam fight.

Quote from: Blogaugis on July 26, 2021, 01:37:03 PM
As for Hessen class destroyer...

You sure that your Star Hawk corvettes can survive a 2(turrets)X4(quad specification)X0.69(Capital-ship fire control chance to hit at 40,000km)X3(damage)=16.56 points of damage? with more on the way per 2 5sec increments?

A Star Hawk's armour is 4*16 so 64 points of armour, so in average a Star Hawk is able to tank off 3 of Hessen's main battery salvos before her armour will be ineffective, so 30 seconds - 5 salvos for Star Hawk's more quick-firing guns. With a decent probability some shot will hit in the same armour spot, that was damaged by one of the previous hits before all armour will be sheared off, yet at the first salvo this probability will be small (smth like 15%, more if your missiles and gausses will score more then several hits too), and even in the second salvo it will be about 30-50% probability to tank all shots. The third salvo will be decisive. What will happen earlier - a Hessen do enough damage to knock out a Star Hawk or a Star Hawk knock out Hessen's shield and blind her - it's a question of probabilities. So, as I have said, it's possible for Star Hawk to pray down a Hessen. No guarantee, but some decent possibility to do a job against 5 times larger same tech level warship.
Posted by: Droll
« on: July 26, 2021, 01:52:00 PM »

Quote from: Blogaugis on July 26, 2021, 01:37:03 PM
Quote from: serger on July 12, 2021, 09:41:15 AM
Just for example.
Tried to copy your techs as close as it was possible.

First is very rough design, no optimization at all - just as close functional analog of your Schnellebottes as I can write on the knee instead of being fully consumed by my dinner. :)

Code: [Select]
Hunter class Corvette      2 500 tons       88 Crew       392.5 BP       TCS 50    TH 400    EM 30
8001 km/s      Armour 3-16       Shields 1-150       HTK 14      Sensors 1/1/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 6
Maint Life 1.65 Years     MSP 189    AFR 100%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 82    5YR 1 235    Max Repair 200.00 MSP
Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 days    Morale Check Required   

RD.1000F2M4 Improved Nuclear Pulse Engine (1)    Power 400.0    Fuel Use 320.00%    Signature 400.00    Explosion 20%
Fuel Capacity 250 000 Litres    Range 5.6 billion km (8 days at full power)
SG.100/150M1 Shield Generator (1)     Recharge Time 150 seconds (0 per second)

LG.150M3 10cm Visible Light Laser Gun (2)    Range 40 000km     TS: 8 001 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 20 000 km    ROF 5        3 3 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
Beam Fire Control R40-TS8000 (70%) (1)     Max Range: 40 000 km   TS: 8 000 km/s     75 50 25 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
PWR.42M4 Improved Pebble Bed Reactor (2)     Total Power Output 6    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor AS23-R50 (70%) (1)     GPS 800     Range 23.5m km    Resolution 50
Active Search Sensor AS6-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 16     Range 6.4m km    MCR 574.5k km    Resolution 1
EMS.10M1 Passive Sensor Array (1)     Sensitivity 1.0     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  7.9m km
THS.10M1 Passive Sensor Array (1)     Sensitivity 1.0     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  7.9m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes

She is slightly more expensive in terms of both wealth and maintenance, less potent in anti-missile role (still able to shoot down 1 your missile per increment), yet much faster and incomparably heavier armed: your is incapable of killing nearly anything else then unarmored merchant or surveyor, while mine is capable of killing several of yours without serious risk: 3000kkm/s faster, she'll just close her range at preferable 10kkm in 5-10 seconds after your first gauss hit and will punch through your armour with dual 3-layer-piercing shots - with their 3-layer armour it will be not much salvos before death.

Just a bit more specialized one:

Code: [Select]
Star Hawk class Corvette      2 500 tons       87 Crew       382.7 BP       TCS 50    TH 400    EM 0
8001 km/s      Armour 4-16       Shields 0-0       HTK 11      Sensors 1/1/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 9
Maint Life 0.50 Years     MSP 209    AFR 500%    IFR 6.9%    1YR 421    5YR 6 313    Max Repair 200.00 MSP
Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 7.2 days    Morale Check Required   

RD.1000F2M4 Improved Nuclear Pulse Engine (1)    Power 400.0    Fuel Use 320.00%    Signature 400.00    Explosion 20%
Fuel Capacity 255 000 Litres    Range 5.7 billion km (8 days at full power)

LG.150M3 10cm Visible Light Laser Gun (2)    Range 48 000km     TS: 8 001 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 20 000 km    ROF 5        3 3 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
R15/C3 High Power Microwave (1)    Range 15 000km     TS: 8 001 km/s     Power 3-3    ROF 5        1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Beam Fire Control R13-TS8000 (SW) (70%) (1)     Max Range: 12 800 km   TS: 8 000 km/s     22 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Beam Fire Control R48-TS8000 (SW) (70%) (1)     Max Range: 48 000 km   TS: 8 000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0
PWR.42M4 Improved Pebble Bed Reactor (3)     Total Power Output 9.1    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor AS1-R1 (1)     GPS 2     Range 1.7m km    MCR 157.3k km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor AS5-R10 (1)     GPS 24     Range 5.3m km    Resolution 10
EMS.10M1 Passive Sensor Array (1)     Sensitivity 1.0     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  7.9m km
THS.10M1 Passive Sensor Array (1)     Sensitivity 1.0     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  7.9m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes

Shield generator isn't much of help - 1 power per 150 sec, will be knocked down by the first shot and if it will be HPMW fire - you are effectively dead at the next 5-10 seconds, not 150 seconds. So throw off shield generator and and more armour layer.

My standart armament for fast attack craft / light ship is HPMW and smth armour-piercing to stop and/or kill blinded targets as quick as it's possible. Longer-range fire control to kite smth short-handed if needed. Secondary fire control for redundancy and to have an ability to blind other target while stopping already blinded one.

Throwed off long-range active arrays, because it's not her role to spot missiles at half a million km ranges and betray herself with powerful active pings to any decent opponent's combat ship.

Deployment time and maintenance are optimized for her route time, because it's fast attack corvette - no point in sitting anywhere outside of colony orbit or hangar.

It's 50% more anti-missile capable comparable to Hunter class - and so close to your Schnellboote in yhis role, but it's not the main point. First of all - Star Hawk is capable to pray at your Schnellboote squadrons, if not flotillas. She is capable to easily blind and kill your Iltis too, because Iltis' missiles are too slow to have hit chances more then 25% and are too weak in the same time to disable Star Hawk with lucky shot, and Iltis's beam battery is weaker then Star Hawk's even without HPMW's blinding shots (and with it - Iltis will be blind and incapable of fighting in 10 or 15 seconds after her first laser salvo). It's possible for Star Hawk even to pray down your Hessen G2 destroyer - 6 times larger and more expensive, because there is a good chance that Star Hawk will take down Hessen's shields and blind her before Hessen's missile and beam batteries will shear off Star Hawk's armour!
You have engine boost. And yes, I can see that engine boost is pretty much a must-have...
I will agree that your ships are capable of taking out a schnellboote fleet... Reminder:
Code: [Select]
Schnellboote G2 class Corvette      2,500 tons       55 Crew       321.1 BP       TCS 50    TH 250    EM 30
5001 km/s      Armour 3-16       Shields 1-150       HTK 13      Sensors 1/1/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 9.9
Maint Life 1.60 Years     MSP 155    AFR 100%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 70    5YR 1,052    Max Repair 125 MSP
Magazine 10   
Captain    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 days    Morale Check Required   

G4-ME Improved Nuclear Pulse Engine  EP250.00 (1)    Power 250    Fuel Use 44.27%    Signature 250    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 35,000 Litres    Range 5.7 billion km (13 days at full power)
G1-SSG Alpha S1 / R150 Shields (1)     Recharge Time 150 seconds (0 per second)

G2-SGCT Single G2-HS6-GC Gauss Cannon R300-100 Turret (1x3)    Range 30,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
G2-SWSBFC Beam Fire Control R32-TS12000 (SW) (70%) (1)     Max Range: 32,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     69 38 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

G1-BML Size 5 Box Launcher (2)     Missile Size: 5    Hangar Reload 111 minutes    MF Reload 18 hours
G2-FSMFC Missile Fire Control FC16-R50 (70%) (1)     Range 16.6m km    Resolution 50
G4DF (2)    Speed: 15,600 km/s    End: 27.1m     Range: 25.4m km    WH: 4    Size: 5    TH: 52/31/15

G3-SSASS Active Search Sensor AS23-R50 (70%) (1)     GPS 800     Range 23.5m km    Resolution 50
G3-SMASS Active Search Sensor AS6-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 16     Range 6.4m km    MCR 574.5k km    Resolution 1
BTNS Thermal Sensor TH0.2-1.0 (1)     Sensitivity 1     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  7.9m km
BEMNS EM Sensor EM0.2-1.0 (1)     Sensitivity 1     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  7.9m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposesAs for Iltis...
Code: [Select]
Iltis G2 class Frigate      5,000 tons       140 Crew       609.5 BP       TCS 100    TH 250    EM 60
2500 km/s      Armour 4-26       Shields 2-150       HTK 36      Sensors 2/2/0/0      DCR 5      PPV 28.8
Maint Life 10.42 Years     MSP 1,096    AFR 40%    IFR 0.6%    1YR 18    5YR 276    Max Repair 125 MSP
Troop Capacity 100 tons     Magazine 115   
Captain    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 1.25 months    Morale Check Required   

G4-ME Improved Nuclear Pulse Engine  EP250.00 (1)    Power 250    Fuel Use 44.27%    Signature 250    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 100,000 Litres    Range 8.1 billion km (37 days at full power)
G1-SSG Alpha S1 / R150 Shields (2)     Recharge Time 150 seconds (0 per second)

G2-SLT Single G2-HS3 10cm C1.5 Visible Light Laser Turret (2x1)    Range 60,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 3-1.5     RM 20,000 km    ROF 10       
G2-SGCT Single G2-HS6-GC Gauss Cannon R300-100 Turret (1x3)    Range 30,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
G2-ESBFC Beam Fire Control R64-TS12000 (70%) (1)     Max Range: 64,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     84 69 53 38 22 6 0 0 0 0
G2-SWSBFC Beam Fire Control R32-TS12000 (SW) (70%) (1)     Max Range: 32,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     69 38 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
G3-O3PP Improved Pebble Bed Reactor R3 (1)     Total Power Output 3    Exp 5%

G1-.3ML Size 5 Missile Launcher (30.0% Reduction) (8)     Missile Size: 5    Rate of Fire 6710
G1-SSMFC Missile Fire Control FC32-R50 (70%) (1)     Range 32.2m km    Resolution 50
G4DF (23)    Speed: 15,600 km/s    End: 27.1m     Range: 25.4m km    WH: 4    Size: 5    TH: 52/31/15

G3-SMASS Active Search Sensor AS6-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 16     Range 6.4m km    MCR 574.5k km    Resolution 1
G3-SSASS Active Search Sensor AS23-R50 (70%) (1)     GPS 800     Range 23.5m km    Resolution 50
.4EMS EM Sensor EM0.4-2.0 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 2     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  11.2m km
.4TS Thermal Sensor TH0.4-2.0 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 2     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  11.2m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposesI have some doubts - it's laser range is greater than Yours, so it should be able to retaliate at least.
As for Hessen class destroyer...
Code: [Select]
Hessen G2 class Destroyer      15,000 tons       389 Crew       1,790 BP       TCS 300    TH 500    EM 600
1666 km/s      Armour 8-54       Shields 20-333       HTK 86      Sensors 3/3/0/0      DCR 10      PPV 117.54
Maint Life 3.90 Years     MSP 1,331    AFR 164%    IFR 2.3%    1YR 139    5YR 2,081    Max Repair 182.4 MSP
Troop Capacity 250 tons     Magazine 150    Cryogenic Berths 200   
Captain    Control Rating 2   BRG   AUX   
Intended Deployment Time: 1.5 months    Morale Check Required   

G4-ME Improved Nuclear Pulse Engine  EP250.00 (2)    Power 500    Fuel Use 44.27%    Signature 250    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 250,000 Litres    Range 6.8 billion km (47 days at full power)
G2-CSSG Beta S20 / R333 Shields (1)     Recharge Time 333 seconds (0.1 per second)

G2-QLT Quad G2-HS3 10cm C1.5 Visible Light Laser Turret (2x4)    Range 60,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 12-6     RM 20,000 km    ROF 10       
G2-QGCT Quad G2-HS6-GC Gauss Cannon R300-100 Turret (2x12)    Range 30,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
G2-ESBFC Beam Fire Control R64-TS12000 (70%) (1)     Max Range: 64,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     84 69 53 38 22 6 0 0 0 0
G2-CSBFC Beam Fire Control R128-TS12000 (70%) (1)     Max Range: 128,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     92 84 77 69 61 53 45 38 30 22
G3-O12PP Improved Pebble Bed Reactor R12 (1)     Total Power Output 12.2    Exp 5%

G1-.3ML Size 5 Missile Launcher (30.0% Reduction) (15)     Missile Size: 5    Rate of Fire 6710
G1-SSMFC Missile Fire Control FC32-R50 (70%) (1)     Range 32.2m km    Resolution 50
G4DF (25)    Speed: 15,600 km/s    End: 27.1m     Range: 25.4m km    WH: 4    Size: 5    TH: 52/31/15

G3-SSASS Active Search Sensor AS23-R50 (70%) (1)     GPS 800     Range 23.5m km    Resolution 50
G3-SMASS Active Search Sensor AS6-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 16     Range 6.4m km    MCR 574.5k km    Resolution 1
.6EMS EM Sensor EM0.6-3.0 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 3     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  13.7m km
.6TS Thermal Sensor TH0.6-3.0 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 3     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  13.7m km

ECCM-1 (3)         Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposesYou sure that your Star Hawk corvettes can survive a 2(turrets)X4(quad specification)X0.69(Capital-ship fire control chance to hit at 40,000km)X3(damage)=16.56 points of damage? with more on the way per 2 5sec increments?
Do remind me, High Power Microwave goes through shields and armor like it's nothing? If you do actually decide to bring HPMs, you'd also be subject to 24 shots of gauss cannon every 5 second increment.
As for speed, yes, it is a key vulnerability.

Now about ECCM, since You're saying that more than 1 ECCM is redundant - this means that several fire controls can use the 1 same ECCM?

More ECCM is not redundant, you need one per FC - though maybe you don't necessarily need certain FCs to have ECCM, especially since ECCM can be moved from FC to FC without consequence in the middle of combat.

High Power Microwaves do double damage against shields, but... they only do 1 damage nominally (so that's a whopping 2) which means that they are actually horrible against any form of energy shielding - even being unable to outpace the regen rate of high tech shields. They do ignore armor though.
Posted by: Blogaugis
« on: July 26, 2021, 01:37:03 PM »

Quote from: serger on July 12, 2021, 09:41:15 AM
Just for example.
Tried to copy your techs as close as it was possible.

First is very rough design, no optimization at all - just as close functional analog of your Schnellebottes as I can write on the knee instead of being fully consumed by my dinner. :)

Code: [Select]
Hunter class Corvette      2 500 tons       88 Crew       392.5 BP       TCS 50    TH 400    EM 30
8001 km/s      Armour 3-16       Shields 1-150       HTK 14      Sensors 1/1/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 6
Maint Life 1.65 Years     MSP 189    AFR 100%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 82    5YR 1 235    Max Repair 200.00 MSP
Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 days    Morale Check Required   

RD.1000F2M4 Improved Nuclear Pulse Engine (1)    Power 400.0    Fuel Use 320.00%    Signature 400.00    Explosion 20%
Fuel Capacity 250 000 Litres    Range 5.6 billion km (8 days at full power)
SG.100/150M1 Shield Generator (1)     Recharge Time 150 seconds (0 per second)

LG.150M3 10cm Visible Light Laser Gun (2)    Range 40 000km     TS: 8 001 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 20 000 km    ROF 5        3 3 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
Beam Fire Control R40-TS8000 (70%) (1)     Max Range: 40 000 km   TS: 8 000 km/s     75 50 25 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
PWR.42M4 Improved Pebble Bed Reactor (2)     Total Power Output 6    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor AS23-R50 (70%) (1)     GPS 800     Range 23.5m km    Resolution 50
Active Search Sensor AS6-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 16     Range 6.4m km    MCR 574.5k km    Resolution 1
EMS.10M1 Passive Sensor Array (1)     Sensitivity 1.0     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  7.9m km
THS.10M1 Passive Sensor Array (1)     Sensitivity 1.0     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  7.9m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes

She is slightly more expensive in terms of both wealth and maintenance, less potent in anti-missile role (still able to shoot down 1 your missile per increment), yet much faster and incomparably heavier armed: your is incapable of killing nearly anything else then unarmored merchant or surveyor, while mine is capable of killing several of yours without serious risk: 3000kkm/s faster, she'll just close her range at preferable 10kkm in 5-10 seconds after your first gauss hit and will punch through your armour with dual 3-layer-piercing shots - with their 3-layer armour it will be not much salvos before death.

Just a bit more specialized one:

Code: [Select]
Star Hawk class Corvette      2 500 tons       87 Crew       382.7 BP       TCS 50    TH 400    EM 0
8001 km/s      Armour 4-16       Shields 0-0       HTK 11      Sensors 1/1/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 9
Maint Life 0.50 Years     MSP 209    AFR 500%    IFR 6.9%    1YR 421    5YR 6 313    Max Repair 200.00 MSP
Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 7.2 days    Morale Check Required   

RD.1000F2M4 Improved Nuclear Pulse Engine (1)    Power 400.0    Fuel Use 320.00%    Signature 400.00    Explosion 20%
Fuel Capacity 255 000 Litres    Range 5.7 billion km (8 days at full power)

LG.150M3 10cm Visible Light Laser Gun (2)    Range 48 000km     TS: 8 001 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 20 000 km    ROF 5        3 3 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
R15/C3 High Power Microwave (1)    Range 15 000km     TS: 8 001 km/s     Power 3-3    ROF 5        1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Beam Fire Control R13-TS8000 (SW) (70%) (1)     Max Range: 12 800 km   TS: 8 000 km/s     22 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Beam Fire Control R48-TS8000 (SW) (70%) (1)     Max Range: 48 000 km   TS: 8 000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0
PWR.42M4 Improved Pebble Bed Reactor (3)     Total Power Output 9.1    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor AS1-R1 (1)     GPS 2     Range 1.7m km    MCR 157.3k km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor AS5-R10 (1)     GPS 24     Range 5.3m km    Resolution 10
EMS.10M1 Passive Sensor Array (1)     Sensitivity 1.0     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  7.9m km
THS.10M1 Passive Sensor Array (1)     Sensitivity 1.0     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  7.9m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes

Shield generator isn't much of help - 1 power per 150 sec, will be knocked down by the first shot and if it will be HPMW fire - you are effectively dead at the next 5-10 seconds, not 150 seconds. So throw off shield generator and and more armour layer.

My standart armament for fast attack craft / light ship is HPMW and smth armour-piercing to stop and/or kill blinded targets as quick as it's possible. Longer-range fire control to kite smth short-handed if needed. Secondary fire control for redundancy and to have an ability to blind other target while stopping already blinded one.

Throwed off long-range active arrays, because it's not her role to spot missiles at half a million km ranges and betray herself with powerful active pings to any decent opponent's combat ship.

Deployment time and maintenance are optimized for her route time, because it's fast attack corvette - no point in sitting anywhere outside of colony orbit or hangar.

It's 50% more anti-missile capable comparable to Hunter class - and so close to your Schnellboote in yhis role, but it's not the main point. First of all - Star Hawk is capable to pray at your Schnellboote squadrons, if not flotillas. She is capable to easily blind and kill your Iltis too, because Iltis' missiles are too slow to have hit chances more then 25% and are too weak in the same time to disable Star Hawk with lucky shot, and Iltis's beam battery is weaker then Star Hawk's even without HPMW's blinding shots (and with it - Iltis will be blind and incapable of fighting in 10 or 15 seconds after her first laser salvo). It's possible for Star Hawk even to pray down your Hessen G2 destroyer - 6 times larger and more expensive, because there is a good chance that Star Hawk will take down Hessen's shields and blind her before Hessen's missile and beam batteries will shear off Star Hawk's armour!
You have engine boost. And yes, I can see that engine boost is pretty much a must-have...
I will agree that your ships are capable of taking out a schnellboote fleet... Reminder:
Code: [Select]
Schnellboote G2 class Corvette      2,500 tons       55 Crew       321.1 BP       TCS 50    TH 250    EM 30
5001 km/s      Armour 3-16       Shields 1-150       HTK 13      Sensors 1/1/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 9.9
Maint Life 1.60 Years     MSP 155    AFR 100%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 70    5YR 1,052    Max Repair 125 MSP
Magazine 10   
Captain    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 days    Morale Check Required   

G4-ME Improved Nuclear Pulse Engine  EP250.00 (1)    Power 250    Fuel Use 44.27%    Signature 250    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 35,000 Litres    Range 5.7 billion km (13 days at full power)
G1-SSG Alpha S1 / R150 Shields (1)     Recharge Time 150 seconds (0 per second)

G2-SGCT Single G2-HS6-GC Gauss Cannon R300-100 Turret (1x3)    Range 30,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
G2-SWSBFC Beam Fire Control R32-TS12000 (SW) (70%) (1)     Max Range: 32,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     69 38 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

G1-BML Size 5 Box Launcher (2)     Missile Size: 5    Hangar Reload 111 minutes    MF Reload 18 hours
G2-FSMFC Missile Fire Control FC16-R50 (70%) (1)     Range 16.6m km    Resolution 50
G4DF (2)    Speed: 15,600 km/s    End: 27.1m     Range: 25.4m km    WH: 4    Size: 5    TH: 52/31/15

G3-SSASS Active Search Sensor AS23-R50 (70%) (1)     GPS 800     Range 23.5m km    Resolution 50
G3-SMASS Active Search Sensor AS6-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 16     Range 6.4m km    MCR 574.5k km    Resolution 1
BTNS Thermal Sensor TH0.2-1.0 (1)     Sensitivity 1     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  7.9m km
BEMNS EM Sensor EM0.2-1.0 (1)     Sensitivity 1     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  7.9m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposesAs for Iltis...
Code: [Select]
Iltis G2 class Frigate      5,000 tons       140 Crew       609.5 BP       TCS 100    TH 250    EM 60
2500 km/s      Armour 4-26       Shields 2-150       HTK 36      Sensors 2/2/0/0      DCR 5      PPV 28.8
Maint Life 10.42 Years     MSP 1,096    AFR 40%    IFR 0.6%    1YR 18    5YR 276    Max Repair 125 MSP
Troop Capacity 100 tons     Magazine 115   
Captain    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 1.25 months    Morale Check Required   

G4-ME Improved Nuclear Pulse Engine  EP250.00 (1)    Power 250    Fuel Use 44.27%    Signature 250    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 100,000 Litres    Range 8.1 billion km (37 days at full power)
G1-SSG Alpha S1 / R150 Shields (2)     Recharge Time 150 seconds (0 per second)

G2-SLT Single G2-HS3 10cm C1.5 Visible Light Laser Turret (2x1)    Range 60,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 3-1.5     RM 20,000 km    ROF 10       
G2-SGCT Single G2-HS6-GC Gauss Cannon R300-100 Turret (1x3)    Range 30,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
G2-ESBFC Beam Fire Control R64-TS12000 (70%) (1)     Max Range: 64,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     84 69 53 38 22 6 0 0 0 0
G2-SWSBFC Beam Fire Control R32-TS12000 (SW) (70%) (1)     Max Range: 32,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     69 38 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
G3-O3PP Improved Pebble Bed Reactor R3 (1)     Total Power Output 3    Exp 5%

G1-.3ML Size 5 Missile Launcher (30.0% Reduction) (8)     Missile Size: 5    Rate of Fire 6710
G1-SSMFC Missile Fire Control FC32-R50 (70%) (1)     Range 32.2m km    Resolution 50
G4DF (23)    Speed: 15,600 km/s    End: 27.1m     Range: 25.4m km    WH: 4    Size: 5    TH: 52/31/15

G3-SMASS Active Search Sensor AS6-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 16     Range 6.4m km    MCR 574.5k km    Resolution 1
G3-SSASS Active Search Sensor AS23-R50 (70%) (1)     GPS 800     Range 23.5m km    Resolution 50
.4EMS EM Sensor EM0.4-2.0 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 2     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  11.2m km
.4TS Thermal Sensor TH0.4-2.0 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 2     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  11.2m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposesI have some doubts - it's laser range is greater than Yours, so it should be able to retaliate at least.
As for Hessen class destroyer...
Code: [Select]
Hessen G2 class Destroyer      15,000 tons       389 Crew       1,790 BP       TCS 300    TH 500    EM 600
1666 km/s      Armour 8-54       Shields 20-333       HTK 86      Sensors 3/3/0/0      DCR 10      PPV 117.54
Maint Life 3.90 Years     MSP 1,331    AFR 164%    IFR 2.3%    1YR 139    5YR 2,081    Max Repair 182.4 MSP
Troop Capacity 250 tons     Magazine 150    Cryogenic Berths 200   
Captain    Control Rating 2   BRG   AUX   
Intended Deployment Time: 1.5 months    Morale Check Required   

G4-ME Improved Nuclear Pulse Engine  EP250.00 (2)    Power 500    Fuel Use 44.27%    Signature 250    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 250,000 Litres    Range 6.8 billion km (47 days at full power)
G2-CSSG Beta S20 / R333 Shields (1)     Recharge Time 333 seconds (0.1 per second)

G2-QLT Quad G2-HS3 10cm C1.5 Visible Light Laser Turret (2x4)    Range 60,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 12-6     RM 20,000 km    ROF 10       
G2-QGCT Quad G2-HS6-GC Gauss Cannon R300-100 Turret (2x12)    Range 30,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
G2-ESBFC Beam Fire Control R64-TS12000 (70%) (1)     Max Range: 64,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     84 69 53 38 22 6 0 0 0 0
G2-CSBFC Beam Fire Control R128-TS12000 (70%) (1)     Max Range: 128,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     92 84 77 69 61 53 45 38 30 22
G3-O12PP Improved Pebble Bed Reactor R12 (1)     Total Power Output 12.2    Exp 5%

G1-.3ML Size 5 Missile Launcher (30.0% Reduction) (15)     Missile Size: 5    Rate of Fire 6710
G1-SSMFC Missile Fire Control FC32-R50 (70%) (1)     Range 32.2m km    Resolution 50
G4DF (25)    Speed: 15,600 km/s    End: 27.1m     Range: 25.4m km    WH: 4    Size: 5    TH: 52/31/15

G3-SSASS Active Search Sensor AS23-R50 (70%) (1)     GPS 800     Range 23.5m km    Resolution 50
G3-SMASS Active Search Sensor AS6-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 16     Range 6.4m km    MCR 574.5k km    Resolution 1
.6EMS EM Sensor EM0.6-3.0 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 3     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  13.7m km
.6TS Thermal Sensor TH0.6-3.0 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 3     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  13.7m km

ECCM-1 (3)         Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposesYou sure that your Star Hawk corvettes can survive a 2(turrets)X4(quad specification)X0.69(Capital-ship fire control chance to hit at 40,000km)X3(damage)=16.56 points of damage? with more on the way per 2 5sec increments?
Do remind me, High Power Microwave goes through shields and armor like it's nothing? If you do actually decide to bring HPMs, you'd also be subject to 24 shots of gauss cannon every 5 second increment.
As for speed, yes, it is a key vulnerability.

Now about ECCM, since You're saying that more than 1 ECCM is redundant - this means that several fire controls can use the 1 same ECCM?
Posted by: serger
« on: July 12, 2021, 11:02:53 AM »

Quote from: Blogaugis on July 12, 2021, 06:23:09 AM
I suppose that defensive turrets are not really necessary for ships of this size?

More of velocity, not size.
It's a decent option to have kind of slowish patrol corvette or frigate - and it's quite reasonable to arm them with turretted multirole cannons (like 10-cm QF lasers). They'll be able to weather missile salvos of some lone light missile ship, will have some chances to shear off all armour of light beam combatants, and if they'll encounter unarmored merchants or surveyors - they'll rip them apart without expending their ammo.

Quote from: Blogaugis on July 12, 2021, 06:23:09 AM
I guess both the missiles and gauss cannon (if the defensive armament won't be necessary) can be swapped out for either a laser cannon or a plasma carronade.

The problem of specialized defensive (anti-missile) armament for such light ships is not about necessity, it's about sufficiency. If your ship is armoured and also have decent anti-ship armament - she'll have not enough volume to mount anti-missile weapons capable of defending her against missile opponent of her size and tech level. She will be dead in encounter with missile-only opponent and she will be dead in encounter with beam-only opponent (because the latter will be heavier armed for decisive close combat). Mixed armament is more resonable choise for larger ships (smth like large cruiser with raider specialization), because there will be decent probability of encounter with smaller opponents and she will have an option to choose which weapon to use in this case to reserve her armour or her ammo according to the situation. Corvette just will not meet smth smaller and lonely, because there is no smaller long-range combat ship and no wild FAC will travel lonely outside of her base's missile range (and even decent FAC will rip your corvette apart with missile salvo, by the way).

Speaking of plasma carronades - they are very capable for defending jump points and bombarding defenseless worlds, but not for any other role. They are just too shorthanded.

Quote from: Blogaugis on July 12, 2021, 06:23:09 AM
Isn't ECCM supposed to be per fire control? Last I checked fleet fire controls, there was an option to select eccm for a fire control.
While ECM - it is not yet developed.

Sorry, my misreading.
Really, it's absolutely reasonable to have several ECCMs per main combat ship, though it's not mandatory to have ECCM for every FC (for example, I'll have no additional ECCM for spare short-range FC that is added just for redundancy at some corvete or heavy FAC).
Posted by: serger
« on: July 12, 2021, 09:41:15 AM »

Just for example.
Tried to copy your techs as close as it was possible.

First is very rough design, no optimization at all - just as close functional analog of your Schnellebottes as I can write on the knee instead of being fully consumed by my dinner. :)

Code: [Select]
Hunter class Corvette      2 500 tons       88 Crew       392.5 BP       TCS 50    TH 400    EM 30
8001 km/s      Armour 3-16       Shields 1-150       HTK 14      Sensors 1/1/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 6
Maint Life 1.65 Years     MSP 189    AFR 100%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 82    5YR 1 235    Max Repair 200.00 MSP
Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 days    Morale Check Required   

RD.1000F2M4 Improved Nuclear Pulse Engine (1)    Power 400.0    Fuel Use 320.00%    Signature 400.00    Explosion 20%
Fuel Capacity 250 000 Litres    Range 5.6 billion km (8 days at full power)
SG.100/150M1 Shield Generator (1)     Recharge Time 150 seconds (0 per second)

LG.150M3 10cm Visible Light Laser Gun (2)    Range 40 000km     TS: 8 001 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 20 000 km    ROF 5        3 3 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
Beam Fire Control R40-TS8000 (70%) (1)     Max Range: 40 000 km   TS: 8 000 km/s     75 50 25 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
PWR.42M4 Improved Pebble Bed Reactor (2)     Total Power Output 6    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor AS23-R50 (70%) (1)     GPS 800     Range 23.5m km    Resolution 50
Active Search Sensor AS6-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 16     Range 6.4m km    MCR 574.5k km    Resolution 1
EMS.10M1 Passive Sensor Array (1)     Sensitivity 1.0     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  7.9m km
THS.10M1 Passive Sensor Array (1)     Sensitivity 1.0     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  7.9m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes

She is slightly more expensive in terms of both wealth and maintenance, less potent in anti-missile role (still able to shoot down 1 your missile per increment), yet much faster and incomparably heavier armed: your is incapable of killing nearly anything else then unarmored merchant or surveyor, while mine is capable of killing several of yours without serious risk: 3000kkm/s faster, she'll just close her range at preferable 10kkm in 5-10 seconds after your first gauss hit and will punch through your armour with dual 3-layer-piercing shots - with their 3-layer armour it will be not much salvos before death.

Just a bit more specialized one:

Code: [Select]
Star Hawk class Corvette      2 500 tons       87 Crew       382.7 BP       TCS 50    TH 400    EM 0
8001 km/s      Armour 4-16       Shields 0-0       HTK 11      Sensors 1/1/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 9
Maint Life 0.50 Years     MSP 209    AFR 500%    IFR 6.9%    1YR 421    5YR 6 313    Max Repair 200.00 MSP
Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 7.2 days    Morale Check Required   

RD.1000F2M4 Improved Nuclear Pulse Engine (1)    Power 400.0    Fuel Use 320.00%    Signature 400.00    Explosion 20%
Fuel Capacity 255 000 Litres    Range 5.7 billion km (8 days at full power)

LG.150M3 10cm Visible Light Laser Gun (2)    Range 48 000km     TS: 8 001 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 20 000 km    ROF 5        3 3 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
R15/C3 High Power Microwave (1)    Range 15 000km     TS: 8 001 km/s     Power 3-3    ROF 5        1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Beam Fire Control R13-TS8000 (SW) (70%) (1)     Max Range: 12 800 km   TS: 8 000 km/s     22 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Beam Fire Control R48-TS8000 (SW) (70%) (1)     Max Range: 48 000 km   TS: 8 000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0
PWR.42M4 Improved Pebble Bed Reactor (3)     Total Power Output 9.1    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor AS1-R1 (1)     GPS 2     Range 1.7m km    MCR 157.3k km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor AS5-R10 (1)     GPS 24     Range 5.3m km    Resolution 10
EMS.10M1 Passive Sensor Array (1)     Sensitivity 1.0     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  7.9m km
THS.10M1 Passive Sensor Array (1)     Sensitivity 1.0     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  7.9m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes

Shield generator isn't much of help - 1 power per 150 sec, will be knocked down by the first shot and if it will be HPMW fire - you are effectively dead at the next 5-10 seconds, not 150 seconds. So throw off shield generator and and more armour layer.

My standart armament for fast attack craft / light ship is HPMW and smth armour-piercing to stop and/or kill blinded targets as quick as it's possible. Longer-range fire control to kite smth short-handed if needed. Secondary fire control for redundancy and to have an ability to blind other target while stopping already blinded one.

Throwed off long-range active arrays, because it's not her role to spot missiles at half a million km ranges and betray herself with powerful active pings to any decent opponent's combat ship.

Deployment time and maintenance are optimized for her route time, because it's fast attack corvette - no point in sitting anywhere outside of colony orbit or hangar.

It's 50% more anti-missile capable comparable to Hunter class - and so close to your Schnellboote in yhis role, but it's not the main point. First of all - Star Hawk is capable to pray at your Schnellboote squadrons, if not flotillas. She is capable to easily blind and kill your Iltis too, because Iltis' missiles are too slow to have hit chances more then 25% and are too weak in the same time to disable Star Hawk with lucky shot, and Iltis's beam battery is weaker then Star Hawk's even without HPMW's blinding shots (and with it - Iltis will be blind and incapable of fighting in 10 or 15 seconds after her first laser salvo). It's possible for Star Hawk even to pray down your Hessen G2 destroyer - 6 times larger and more expensive, because there is a good chance that Star Hawk will take down Hessen's shields and blind her before Hessen's missile and beam batteries will shear off Star Hawk's armour!
Posted by: ZimRathbone
« on: July 12, 2021, 07:00:14 AM »

Quote from: serger on July 12, 2021, 03:46:45 AM
The second difference is, as I mentioned above, that there is no relief in space, the same as no weather. So no masks and no zero visibility conditions, and so nearly no close combat surprises, no conditions where you just cannot use one of your weapon types and no difference with weapon reaction times.

VB Aurora  did have some terrain in the form of Nebulae which seriously nerfed missiles and shields, slowed down ships depending on their armour levels, and reduced detection ranges. It could be a pain if you were unlucky enough to get a level12 nebula blocking your expansion into the rest of the universe (Happened to me once) but did present some different design and tactical challenges. 

It didn't happen if you used the Real Stars option.  I'm hopeful that it will eventually get added to C#
Posted by: Blogaugis
« on: July 12, 2021, 06:23:09 AM »

Quote from: serger on July 11, 2021, 01:33:36 PM
Schnellboote's missiles are incapable of disabling any armoured ship of the size their firecontrol and agility are supposed to work on.
At the same time, the only weapon they have aside of missiles - is nearly antimissile-only gauss turret.
What are they supposed to do at all? They are nearly useless.
Yeah, some improvements and decisions on what the Corvettes supposed to do would be good.
I suppose that defensive turrets are not really necessary for ships of this size?
I guess both the missiles and gauss cannon (if the defensive armament won't be necessary) can be swapped out for either a laser cannon or a plasma carronade.
Quote from: serger on July 11, 2021, 01:33:36 PM
Your bigger ships have too much ECM redundancy (it's enough to have 1 ECM per ship and 1 ECCM per target).
Isn't ECCM supposed to be per fire control? Last I checked fleet fire controls, there was an option to select eccm for a fire control.
While ECM - it is not yet developed.
Quote from: nuclearslurpee on July 11, 2021, 02:14:13 PM

Actually you do not need an active sensor on the same ship to fire a weapon, only a fire control.

So if you have a spotter and 12 bombers, the bombers do not need any active sensor, only the spotter does. The bombers do need fire controls.
So that means, that the active search sensor on fighters (and bombers) is generally only there, when you intend to make them capable of independent operations, as in, far away from a carrier and/or sensor ship.

Quote from: nuclearslurpee on July 11, 2021, 02:14:13 PM
Yes.

Tonnage matters, each maintenance facility or module can support a specific amount of tonnage (based on your tech level). If you have 100 maintenance facilities + modules at the base tech level for example, you can support up to 100,000 tons of ships. If you have, say, 200,000 tons of ships, you support them at half efficiency, so each ship will accumulate maintenance clock time but it will be slowed down.
Thank You for clarifications.
Quote from: nuclearslurpee on July 11, 2021, 02:14:13 PM

It ends up costing you twice over. First and most obvious, a slower missile means lower hit rate which means more ordnance expended to kill a target, or alternatively you might not kill the target with the amount of ordnance available. Second, a slower missile will be more vulnerable to point defense, both AMMs and beam final fire.

Similarly for AMMs if you use them (which you don't have to against NPRs but it's a good idea) will have a very reduced hit rate without EP boosting. Since range doesn't matter you absolutely need to max out the EP boost on those.
The need for speed...
I suppose hit rate could be circumvented via maneuverability setting.

As for Anti-Missile-Missiles, since I decided to see how would it go without boosting, I pretty much decided that there won't be AMMs, only size 5 MSP missiles, separated by generations.
So the boosting is vital either way...
I guess the missiles will become more of a weapon of opportunity, more used to bomb planets and too slow ships. While the main weapons will probably become lasers.
Or, actually, with the fighter-centric approach, it may be the gauss that overwhelms the enemy, slowing them down due to engine damage, which allows the rest of the fleet to get in range and deal a finishing blow with lasers and plasma carronades.
Quote from: nuclearslurpee on July 11, 2021, 02:14:13 PM
Unless there's an RP reason I think 10cm railguns would be better on the Schnellbooten, replacing both turrets and missiles. Railguns work very well as point defense on fast ships due to being much lighter than comparable Gauss guns, since a fast ship makes a turret somewhat less useful than on a slower ship. They are also a good secondary offensive weapon since a fast ship can easily overtake a vulnerable enemy ship and pew pew it to death.
I decided to forget about railguns, mesons and particle beams, instead going with:
Lasers, Plasma Carronades, Missiles and Gauss cannons.
Posted by: serger
« on: July 12, 2021, 03:46:45 AM »

Speaking of missiles again.

I think in most cases, when players are considering to design mix-armed combat ships (that is: missiles, and turretted beams, and unturretted beams or railguns, and turreted anti-missile in one hull), they just want to have smth like real-world wet navy ships of XX century.

The first difference is that for small ships missiles and even guns in Aurora aren't like missiles or torpedoes in real world. That is, in real world light ship cannot carry armour - not enough to stop even light shell - and be able to weather the storm in open waters. So, real light warships are fighting through maneuver, reaction, accuracy and stochastics, not through armour-piercing and armour-shearing. In Aurora you just cannot build military ship, that cannot deflect first light weapon hit (if it is not meson). Even the lightest of fighters can absorb 1 or 2 gauss or 10-sm railgun hits with their armour before your weapon can disable them with next hit. And with those next hits there will be not much stochastics: combat craft or light ship can withstand several hits, no more.

The second difference is, as I mentioned above, that there is no relief in space, the same as no weather. So no masks and no zero visibility conditions, and so nearly no close combat surprises, no conditions where you just cannot use one of your weapon types and no difference with weapon reaction times.

So, while in real wet navy, if you want to maximize your ship's chances to win and survive - you have to arm her with several different weapons to "fill" most likely combat conditions, in Aurora you just have to use the most effective anti-ship weapon you have and, if it's likely that your design will face missile fire - you have to use also the most effective anti-missile weapon you have, or even the one combined in both those roles, as are railguns for fast combat designs). There is no condition in Aurora, where your main anti-ship weapon will be disabled by weather, or unusable in current relief against current target, or not able to shoot in 5 secs (while another, more quick-reaction weapon will fire successfully) and so on. You have to bear in mind expected range, and if your main anti-ship weapon is effective at this range - you have to use it as your only anti-ship weapon, because there will be nearly no chance that some other weapon will happen to be drastically more effective in some unexpected combat condition. Some weapon can be slightly more effective against some opponent, but this slight effect will not be enough to outweigh overall weakening of your designs, that will be inevitable with this distribution of your research and development efforts to produce several nearly-equally effective different types of weapons.

To bring some kind of real world flavour and be effective in it - you have to use bigger weapons. Larger calibers (smth like 15-20 of warhead power to deal with destroyer-size warship) will bring shock-effect, with some non-negligible chance to disable enemy ship without shearing most of it's armour off preliminarily. Nearly the same, larger calibers of laser, particle lance or meson are able to penetrate thin armour or make shockwave too, though it's easier to reach this effect with missiles. Warheads of your size are incapable to reach this at all - the thinnest armour available in Aurora is able to stop their first strike and so the only way to use them effectively is to shear off opponent's armour with saturating fire, and to do it you have to use your most effective weapon only, not a mix of more and less effective weapons. Light combat ships are incapable with this role, if they are not very specialized - so unarmored, short-legged (slow or low endurance), one-weapon per class, slow-reloading, but able to bear some large-caliber weapon, one per hull, but capable to hit hard.
Posted by: nuclearslurpee
« on: July 11, 2021, 02:14:13 PM »

Quote from: Blogaugis on July 11, 2021, 09:23:04 AM
Well, then a single spotter ship is a valid choice. This means that fighters only need to carry the very minimalistic active search sensor, just to be able to use their fire control.

Actually you do not need an active sensor on the same ship to fire a weapon, only a fire control.

So if you have a spotter and 12 bombers, the bombers do not need any active sensor, only the spotter does. The bombers do need fire controls.

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Alright... a recreational module essentially allows crew to rest, same as 50,000 colonist size colony?

Yes.

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While maintenance facility allows the ship to stay still for an unlimited amount of time? Their tonnage is relevant only when overhauling?

Tonnage matters, each maintenance facility or module can support a specific amount of tonnage (based on your tech level). If you have 100 maintenance facilities + modules at the base tech level for example, you can support up to 100,000 tons of ships. If you have, say, 200,000 tons of ships, you support them at half efficiency, so each ship will accumulate maintenance clock time but it will be slowed down.

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I think that 0.1 MSP dedicated to fuel, 3.9 to engine size and 1 point to warhead results in - 15,600 km/s speed, 4 warhead with 25,39 m km range - a pretty economical missile, intended to hit targets of resolution 50 and above.

It ends up costing you twice over. First and most obvious, a slower missile means lower hit rate which means more ordnance expended to kill a target, or alternatively you might not kill the target with the amount of ordnance available. Second, a slower missile will be more vulnerable to point defense, both AMMs and beam final fire.

Similarly for AMMs if you use them (which you don't have to against NPRs but it's a good idea) will have a very reduced hit rate without EP boosting. Since range doesn't matter you absolutely need to max out the EP boost on those.

Quote from: serger on July 11, 2021, 01:33:36 PM
Schnellboote's missiles are incapable of disabling any armoured ship of the size their firecontrol and agility are supposed to work on.
At the same time, the only weapon they have aside of missiles - is nearly antimissile-only gauss turret.
What are they supposed to do at all? They are nearly useless.

Unless there's an RP reason I think 10cm railguns would be better on the Schnellbooten, replacing both turrets and missiles. Railguns work very well as point defense on fast ships due to being much lighter than comparable Gauss guns, since a fast ship makes a turret somewhat less useful than on a slower ship. They are also a good secondary offensive weapon since a fast ship can easily overtake a vulnerable enemy ship and pew pew it to death.
Posted by: serger
« on: July 11, 2021, 01:33:36 PM »

Schnellboote's missiles are incapable of disabling any armoured ship of the size their firecontrol and agility are supposed to work on.
At the same time, the only weapon they have aside of missiles - is nearly antimissile-only gauss turret.
What are they supposed to do at all? They are nearly useless.

Your bigger ships have too much ECM redundancy (it's enough to have 1 ECM per ship and 1 ECCM per target).
Posted by: Blogaugis
« on: July 11, 2021, 10:20:55 AM »

The new 10,000 ton survey craft is not yet finalized... The Gravsurvey equipment is missing, so I'll go to the upgraded old designs...
Code: [Select]
Hessen G2 class Destroyer      15,000 tons       389 Crew       1,790 BP       TCS 300    TH 500    EM 600
1666 km/s      Armour 8-54       Shields 20-333       HTK 86      Sensors 3/3/0/0      DCR 10      PPV 117.54
Maint Life 3.90 Years     MSP 1,331    AFR 164%    IFR 2.3%    1YR 139    5YR 2,081    Max Repair 182.4 MSP
Troop Capacity 250 tons     Magazine 150    Cryogenic Berths 200   
Captain    Control Rating 2   BRG   AUX   
Intended Deployment Time: 1.5 months    Morale Check Required   

G4-ME Improved Nuclear Pulse Engine  EP250.00 (2)    Power 500    Fuel Use 44.27%    Signature 250    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 250,000 Litres    Range 6.8 billion km (47 days at full power)
G2-CSSG Beta S20 / R333 Shields (1)     Recharge Time 333 seconds (0.1 per second)

G2-QLT Quad G2-HS3 10cm C1.5 Visible Light Laser Turret (2x4)    Range 60,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 12-6     RM 20,000 km    ROF 10       
G2-QGCT Quad G2-HS6-GC Gauss Cannon R300-100 Turret (2x12)    Range 30,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
G2-ESBFC Beam Fire Control R64-TS12000 (70%) (1)     Max Range: 64,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     84 69 53 38 22 6 0 0 0 0
G2-CSBFC Beam Fire Control R128-TS12000 (70%) (1)     Max Range: 128,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     92 84 77 69 61 53 45 38 30 22
G3-O12PP Improved Pebble Bed Reactor R12 (1)     Total Power Output 12.2    Exp 5%

G1-.3ML Size 5 Missile Launcher (30.0% Reduction) (15)     Missile Size: 5    Rate of Fire 6710
G1-SSMFC Missile Fire Control FC32-R50 (70%) (1)     Range 32.2m km    Resolution 50
G4DF (25)    Speed: 15,600 km/s    End: 27.1m     Range: 25.4m km    WH: 4    Size: 5    TH: 52/31/15

G3-SSASS Active Search Sensor AS23-R50 (70%) (1)     GPS 800     Range 23.5m km    Resolution 50
G3-SMASS Active Search Sensor AS6-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 16     Range 6.4m km    MCR 574.5k km    Resolution 1
.6EMS EM Sensor EM0.6-3.0 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 3     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  13.7m km
.6TS Thermal Sensor TH0.6-3.0 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 3     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  13.7m km

ECCM-1 (3)         Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes
The destroyer got an upgrade. And with it's different speed, I think it would be more about independent operations rather than an escort ship.
Code: [Select]
Konigsberg G2 class Light Cruiser      25,000 tons       678 Crew       2,838.6 BP       TCS 500    TH 500    EM 1,200
1000 km/s      Armour 10-76       Shields 40-333       HTK 151      Sensors 4/4/0/0      DCR 25      PPV 186.72
Maint Life 5.68 Years     MSP 2,344    AFR 193%    IFR 2.7%    1YR 123    5YR 1,842    Max Repair 182.4 MSP
Troop Capacity 1,000 tons     Magazine 270    Cryogenic Berths 200    Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 1   
Captain    Control Rating 2   BRG   AUX   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Morale Check Required   

G4-ME Improved Nuclear Pulse Engine  EP250.00 (2)    Power 500    Fuel Use 44.27%    Signature 250    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres    Range 8.1 billion km (94 days at full power)
G2-CSSG Beta S20 / R333 Shields (2)     Recharge Time 333 seconds (0.1 per second)

G2-PCHS6 20 cm C2 Plasma Carronade (4)    Range 100,000km     TS: 3,000 km/s     Power 10-2     RM 10,000 km    ROF 25       
G2-QLT Quad G2-HS3 10cm C1.5 Visible Light Laser Turret (4x4)    Range 60,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 12-6     RM 20,000 km    ROF 10       
G2-QGCT Quad G2-HS6-GC Gauss Cannon R300-100 Turret (2x12)    Range 30,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
G2-CSBFC Beam Fire Control R128-TS12000 (70%) (3)     Max Range: 128,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     92 84 77 69 61 53 45 38 30 22
G3-O32PP Improved Pebble Bed Reactor R32 (1)     Total Power Output 32    Exp 5%

G1-.3ML Size 5 Missile Launcher (30.0% Reduction) (24)     Missile Size: 5    Rate of Fire 6710
G1-SSMFC Missile Fire Control FC32-R50 (70%) (1)     Range 32.2m km    Resolution 50
G4DF (54)    Speed: 15,600 km/s    End: 27.1m     Range: 25.4m km    WH: 4    Size: 5    TH: 52/31/15

G3-SSASS Active Search Sensor AS23-R50 (70%) (1)     GPS 800     Range 23.5m km    Resolution 50
G3-SMASS Active Search Sensor AS6-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 16     Range 6.4m km    MCR 574.5k km    Resolution 1
.8EMS EM Sensor EM0.8-4.0 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 4     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  15.8m km
.8TS Thermal Sensor TH0.8-4.0 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 4     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  15.8m km

ECCM-1 (4)         Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes
The light cruiser. The main fleet escort vessel. Plasma carronades should also allow it to participate in planetary bombardment role.
The same tonnage escort carrier:
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Rheinland G2 class Escort Carrier      25,000 tons       470 Crew       2,771.1 BP       TCS 500    TH 500    EM 600
1000 km/s      Armour 5-76       Shields 20-333       HTK 136      Sensors 5/5/0/0      DCR 30      PPV 63.36
Maint Life 8.05 Years     MSP 5,443    AFR 167%    IFR 2.3%    1YR 149    5YR 2,241    Max Repair 182.4 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 10,000 tons     Troop Capacity 1,000 tons     Cryogenic Berths 200    Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 1   
Captain    Control Rating 2   BRG   AUX   
Intended Deployment Time: 4 months    Flight Crew Berths 200    Morale Check Required   

G4-ME Improved Nuclear Pulse Engine  EP250.00 (2)    Power 500    Fuel Use 44.27%    Signature 250    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 750,000 Litres    Range 12.2 billion km (141 days at full power)
G2-CSSG Beta S20 / R333 Shields (1)     Recharge Time 333 seconds (0.1 per second)

G2-QGCT Quad G2-HS6-GC Gauss Cannon R300-100 Turret (2x12)    Range 30,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
G2-ESBFC Beam Fire Control R64-TS12000 (70%) (1)     Max Range: 64,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     84 69 53 38 22 6 0 0 0 0

G3-SSASS Active Search Sensor AS23-R50 (70%) (1)     GPS 800     Range 23.5m km    Resolution 50
G3-SMASS Active Search Sensor AS6-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 16     Range 6.4m km    MCR 574.5k km    Resolution 1
1EMS EM Sensor EM1.0-5.0 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  17.7m km
1TS Thermal Sensor TH1.0-5.0 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  17.7m km

ECCM-1 (1)         Strike Group
52x Heinkiel He-40123 Fighter   Speed: 2618 km/s    Size: 3.82

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a b for auto-assignment purposes
The design is made to support only fighters. No bombers. I guess the auxiliary bridge could be removed... But, flight control is not yet researched.
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Deutschland G2 class Heavy Cruiser      50,000 tons       1,407 Crew       5,558.7 BP       TCS 1,000    TH 1,000    EM 1,800
1000 km/s      Armour 12-120       Shields 60-333       HTK 310      Sensors 5/5/0/0      DCR 57      PPV 465.48
Maint Life 5.78 Years     MSP 4,546    AFR 348%    IFR 4.8%    1YR 231    5YR 3,466    Max Repair 324 MSP
Troop Capacity 1,000 tons     Magazine 300    Cryogenic Berths 200    Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 1   
Commander    Control Rating 3   BRG   AUX   FLG   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Morale Check Required   

G4-ME Improved Nuclear Pulse Engine  EP250.00 (4)    Power 1000    Fuel Use 44.27%    Signature 250    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 1,000,000 Litres    Range 8.1 billion km (94 days at full power)
G2-CSSG Beta S20 / R333 Shields (3)     Recharge Time 333 seconds (0.2 per second)

G2-PCHS6 20 cm C2 Plasma Carronade (12)    Range 100,000km     TS: 3,000 km/s     Power 10-2     RM 10,000 km    ROF 25       
G2-QLT Quad G2-HS3 10cm C1.5 Visible Light Laser Turret (14x4)    Range 60,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 12-6     RM 20,000 km    ROF 10       
G2-QGCT Quad G2-HS6-GC Gauss Cannon R300-100 Turret (4x12)    Range 30,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
G2-CSBFC Beam Fire Control R128-TS12000 (70%) (3)     Max Range: 128,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     92 84 77 69 61 53 45 38 30 22
G3-O108PP Improved Pebble Bed Reactor R108 (1)     Total Power Output 108    Exp 5%

G1-.3ML Size 5 Missile Launcher (30.0% Reduction) (30)     Missile Size: 5    Rate of Fire 6710
G1-SSMFC Missile Fire Control FC32-R50 (70%) (1)     Range 32.2m km    Resolution 50
G4DF (60)    Speed: 15,600 km/s    End: 27.1m     Range: 25.4m km    WH: 4    Size: 5    TH: 52/31/15

G3-SMASS Active Search Sensor AS6-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 16     Range 6.4m km    MCR 574.5k km    Resolution 1
G3-SSASS Active Search Sensor AS23-R50 (70%) (1)     GPS 800     Range 23.5m km    Resolution 50
1EMS EM Sensor EM1.0-5.0 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  17.7m km
1TS Thermal Sensor TH1.0-5.0 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  17.7m km

ECCM-1 (4)         Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes
The first serious capital ship, with a whole flag bridge installed. I suppose a small cruiser force could consist of 1 heavy cruiser and 1 light cruiser.
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Bayern G2 class Light Carrier      50,000 tons       1,079 Crew       6,337.7 BP       TCS 1,000    TH 1,000    EM 1,200
1000 km/s      Armour 6-120       Shields 40-333       HTK 249      Sensors 5/5/0/0      DCR 62      PPV 95.04
Maint Life 5.15 Years     MSP 7,421    AFR 323%    IFR 4.5%    1YR 466    5YR 6,997    Max Repair 575 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 19,000 tons     Troop Capacity 1,000 tons     Magazine 150    Cryogenic Berths 200    Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 1   
Commander    Control Rating 3   BRG   AUX   FLG   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Flight Crew Berths 380    Morale Check Required   

G4-ME Improved Nuclear Pulse Engine  EP250.00 (4)    Power 1000    Fuel Use 44.27%    Signature 250    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 1,058,000 Litres    Range 8.6 billion km (99 days at full power)
G2-CSSG Beta S20 / R333 Shields (2)     Recharge Time 333 seconds (0.1 per second)

G2-QGCT Quad G2-HS6-GC Gauss Cannon R300-100 Turret (3x12)    Range 30,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
G2-CSBFC Beam Fire Control R128-TS12000 (70%) (1)     Max Range: 128,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     92 84 77 69 61 53 45 38 30 22

G4DF (30)    Speed: 15,600 km/s    End: 27.1m     Range: 25.4m km    WH: 4    Size: 5    TH: 52/31/15

G1-CSMASS Active Search Sensor AS30-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 500     Range 30.9m km    MCR 2.8m km    Resolution 1
G1-CSSASS Active Search Sensor AS113-R50 (70%) (1)     GPS 25000     Range 113.8m km    Resolution 50
1EMS EM Sensor EM1.0-5.0 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  17.7m km
1TS Thermal Sensor TH1.0-5.0 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  17.7m km

ECCM-1 (1)         Strike Group
15x Dornier Do-42023 Bomber   Speed: 2611 km/s    Size: 3.83
84x Heinkiel He-40123 Fighter   Speed: 2618 km/s    Size: 3.82

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a b for auto-assignment purposes
The light carrier. with 30 missiles, it gives it's 15 bombers 1 more attempt to rearm and attack enemy ships or planets. Perhaps some Heinkiels could be swapped out for boarding or even drop shuttles.
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Scharnhorst G2R class Battlecruiser      75,000 tons       2,194 Crew       9,221 BP       TCS 1,500    TH 2,000    EM 1,800
1333 km/s      Armour 11-158       Shields 60-333       HTK 407      Sensors 250/250/0/0      DCR 83      PPV 505.8
Maint Life 3.69 Years     MSP 6,907    AFR 542%    IFR 7.5%    1YR 789    5YR 11,829    Max Repair 575 MSP
Troop Capacity 1,000 tons     Magazine 450    Cryogenic Berths 200    Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 1   
Commander    Control Rating 3   BRG   AUX   FLG   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Morale Check Required   

G4-ME Improved Nuclear Pulse Engine  EP250.00 (8)    Power 2000    Fuel Use 44.27%    Signature 250    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 2,000,000 Litres    Range 10.8 billion km (94 days at full power)
G2-CSSG Beta S20 / R333 Shields (3)     Recharge Time 333 seconds (0.2 per second)

G2-PCHS6 20 cm C2 Plasma Carronade (24)    Range 100,000km     TS: 3,000 km/s     Power 10-2     RM 10,000 km    ROF 25       
G2-QLT Quad G2-HS3 10cm C1.5 Visible Light Laser Turret (10x4)    Range 60,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 12-6     RM 20,000 km    ROF 10       
G2-QGCT Quad G2-HS6-GC Gauss Cannon R300-100 Turret (5x12)    Range 30,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
G2-CSBFC Beam Fire Control R128-TS12000 (70%) (3)     Max Range: 128,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     92 84 77 69 61 53 45 38 30 22
G3-O108PP Improved Pebble Bed Reactor R108 (1)     Total Power Output 108    Exp 5%

G1-.3ML Size 5 Missile Launcher (30.0% Reduction) (30)     Missile Size: 5    Rate of Fire 6710
G1-CSSMFC Missile Fire Control FC227-R50 (70%) (1)     Range 227.7m km    Resolution 50
G4DF (90)    Speed: 15,600 km/s    End: 27.1m     Range: 25.4m km    WH: 4    Size: 5    TH: 52/31/15

G1-CSSASS Active Search Sensor AS113-R50 (70%) (1)     GPS 25000     Range 113.8m km    Resolution 50
G1-CSMASS Active Search Sensor AS30-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 500     Range 30.9m km    MCR 2.8m km    Resolution 1
TCSS Thermal Sensor TH50-250 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 250     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  125m km
EMCSS EM Sensor EM50-250 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 250     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  125m km

ECCM-1 (4)         Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes
Battlecruiser having a bit higher speed is relegated more to a raider role, with the intent to hunt down supporting ships and some quick planetary raiding.
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Bismarck G2 class Battleship      100,000 tons       3,040 Crew       12,535.1 BP       TCS 2,000    TH 2,000    EM 3,000
1000 km/s      Armour 15-191       Shields 100-333       HTK 562      Sensors 250/250/0/0      DCR 188      PPV 774.48
Maint Life 7.25 Years     MSP 15,355    AFR 424%    IFR 5.9%    1YR 512    5YR 7,682    Max Repair 575 MSP
Troop Capacity 1,000 tons     Cryogenic Berths 200    Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 1   
Commander    Control Rating 3   BRG   AUX   FLG   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Morale Check Required   

G4-ME Improved Nuclear Pulse Engine  EP250.00 (8)    Power 2000    Fuel Use 44.27%    Signature 250    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 2,000,000 Litres    Range 8.1 billion km (94 days at full power)
G2-CSSG Beta S20 / R333 Shields (5)     Recharge Time 333 seconds (0.3 per second)

G2-PCHS6 20 cm C2 Plasma Carronade (5)    Range 100,000km     TS: 3,000 km/s     Power 10-2     RM 10,000 km    ROF 25       
G2-QLT Quad G2-HS3 10cm C1.5 Visible Light Laser Turret (27x4)    Range 60,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 12-6     RM 20,000 km    ROF 10       
G2-QGCT Quad G2-HS6-GC Gauss Cannon R300-100 Turret (10x12)    Range 30,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
G2-CSBFC Beam Fire Control R128-TS12000 (70%) (3)     Max Range: 128,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     92 84 77 69 61 53 45 38 30 22
G3-O108PP Improved Pebble Bed Reactor R108 (1)     Total Power Output 108    Exp 5%
G3-O32PP Improved Pebble Bed Reactor R32 (2)     Total Power Output 64    Exp 5%

G1-CSMASS Active Search Sensor AS30-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 500     Range 30.9m km    MCR 2.8m km    Resolution 1
G1-CSSASS Active Search Sensor AS113-R50 (70%) (1)     GPS 25000     Range 113.8m km    Resolution 50
TCSS Thermal Sensor TH50-250 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 250     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  125m km
EMCSS EM Sensor EM50-250 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 250     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  125m km

ECCM-1 (3)         This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes
One thing to note, the new and larger power plants are not yet developed. With no missiles, battleship is a bit of an oddity here.
And lastly, the moment we all been waiting for:
Code: [Select]
Atlantis G2 class Titan      1,000,000 tons       19,496 Crew       149,880.6 BP       TCS 20,000    TH 3,750    EM 6,000
187 km/s      Armour 100-890       Shields 200-333       HTK 4793      Sensors 250/250/0/0      DCR 2640      PPV 3,796.2
Maint Life 13.17 Years     MSP 257,445    AFR 3030%    IFR 42.1%    1YR 2,756    5YR 41,347    Max Repair 575 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 5,000 tons     Troop Capacity 5,000 tons     Magazine 450    Cryogenic Berths 1,000    Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 1   
Commander    Control Rating 3   BRG   AUX   FLG   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Flight Crew Berths 100    Morale Check Required   

G4-CE Commercial Improved Nuclear Pulse Engine  EP125.0 (30)    Power 3750    Fuel Use 7.83%    Signature 125    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 3,000,000 Litres    Range 6.9 billion km (425 days at full power)
Refuelling Capability: 50,000 litres per hour     Complete Refuel 60 hours
G2-CSSG Beta S20 / R333 Shields (10)     Recharge Time 333 seconds (0.6 per second)

G2-PCHS6 20 cm C2 Plasma Carronade (18)    Range 100,000km     TS: 3,000 km/s     Power 10-2     RM 10,000 km    ROF 25       
G2-QLT Quad G2-HS3 10cm C1.5 Visible Light Laser Turret (30x4)    Range 60,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 12-6     RM 20,000 km    ROF 10       
G2-QGCT Quad G2-HS6-GC Gauss Cannon R300-100 Turret (100x12)    Range 30,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
G2-CSBFC Beam Fire Control R128-TS12000 (70%) (3)     Max Range: 128,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     92 84 77 69 61 53 45 38 30 22
G3-O108PP Improved Pebble Bed Reactor R108 (2)     Total Power Output 216    Exp 5%

G1-.3ML Size 5 Missile Launcher (30.0% Reduction) (30)     Missile Size: 5    Rate of Fire 6710
G1-CSSMFC Missile Fire Control FC227-R50 (70%) (1)     Range 227.7m km    Resolution 50
G4DF (90)    Speed: 15,600 km/s    End: 27.1m     Range: 25.4m km    WH: 4    Size: 5    TH: 52/31/15
Ordnance Transfer Rate: 40 MSP per hour     Complete Transfer 11.3 hours

G1-CSMASS Active Search Sensor AS30-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 500     Range 30.9m km    MCR 2.8m km    Resolution 1
G1-CSSASS Active Search Sensor AS113-R50 (70%) (1)     GPS 25000     Range 113.8m km    Resolution 50
EMCSS EM Sensor EM50-250 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 250     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  125m km
TCSS Thermal Sensor TH50-250 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 250     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  125m km
ELINT Module (1)     Sensitivity 5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  17.7m km

ECCM-1 (4)         Strike Group
21x Heinkiel He-40123 Fighter   Speed: 2618 km/s    Size: 3.82
5x Dornier Do-42023 Bomber   Speed: 2611 km/s    Size: 3.83

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes
Still horribly sluggish, it's main goal is to turn the enemy planets to ash, engaging enemy ships is left for other ships. Cargo bay is swapped for a hangar deck. I suppose those refueling systems and ordnance transfer systems could also be removed and replaced with something better. There are also some reactor technology missing. The new composite armor really helps.
Posted by: Blogaugis
« on: July 11, 2021, 09:23:04 AM »

Quote from: nuclearslurpee on July 10, 2021, 10:46:58 AM
It doesn't matter. The rule is simply that as long as an enemy ship is detected by some active sensor of your race, you can fire at it as long as it is within MFC range.
Well, then a single spotter ship is a valid choice. This means that fighters only need to carry the very minimalistic active search sensor, just to be able to use their fire control.
I guess their carriers should carry the sensor suite.
Quote from: nuclearslurpee on July 10, 2021, 10:46:58 AM
It can be useful to add just enough MSP to fix a single failure, which can occasionally be a good idea. Also the fighter-size components are good for reconnaissance fighters that will spend days rather than hours away from a carrier.
My ~250 ton fighter designs have some emphasis on survivability, to the point of giving them a way to limp back to a planet, in case their carrier is destroyed.
Quote from: nuclearslurpee on July 10, 2021, 10:46:58 AM
The deployment time doesn't matter too much, because it will recover fairly quickly once you are in orbit of a populated colony.

It can matter more if you are building stations for deep space or JP defense but then a recreational station is probably better to accompany a group of defense stations.
Alright... a recreational module essentially allows crew to rest, same as 50,000 colonist size colony?
While maintenance facility allows the ship to stay still for an unlimited amount of time? Their tonnage is relevant only when overhauling?
Quote from: nuclearslurpee on July 10, 2021, 10:46:58 AM
Regarding the current designs iteration, the largest thing missing is engine boosting. All of your fighters are at merely 1.0x boost which is limiting by itself, but far worse is the missiles situation. Even the NPRs with their terrible designs can easily get ASMs with over 20,000 km/s at INPE tech level, by using the EP boost techs. For missiles this will also give better speed per MSP allowing you to put a larger warhead on your missiles, or to start gaining MR to improve accuracy. For example, with reasonable INPE-level techs you can build a missile that is size 5, WH 6, speed over 20k km/s, and has MR=12 and 20m to 30m km range, with the EP boost tech up to 2.0x. This is admittedly a bit short range for a ASM but it illustrates what should be possible. Alternatively you can drop the WH to 4 in order to have more like 40m km range which is a nice number for INPE tech.

Your speeds in general while better are still a bit lackluster. At INPE tech level I would say 3000 km/s is the bare minimum, really only for missile ships. The NPRs will probably be in a range of maybe 3200 to 3500 km/s so as a player you should ideally exceed this, certainly with fighters you should exceed this by a lot using the EP boost techs, otherwise why use fighters at all?
A boost, a boost! My Empire for the boost!
Well, I suppose that reducing Engine size, adding more fuel and making them boosted could help the situation...
Bu-ut, I want to see how it would go without the boost technology.
I think that 0.1 MSP dedicated to fuel, 3.9 to engine size and 1 point to warhead results in - 15,600 km/s speed, 4 warhead with 25,39 m km range - a pretty economical missile, intended to hit targets of resolution 50 and above.

As for fighters... Yeah, a hypothetical corvette already exceeds their speed:
Code: [Select]
Schnellboote G2 class Corvette      2,500 tons       55 Crew       321.1 BP       TCS 50    TH 250    EM 30
5001 km/s      Armour 3-16       Shields 1-150       HTK 13      Sensors 1/1/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 9.9
Maint Life 1.60 Years     MSP 155    AFR 100%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 70    5YR 1,052    Max Repair 125 MSP
Magazine 10   
Captain    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 days    Morale Check Required   

G4-ME Improved Nuclear Pulse Engine  EP250.00 (1)    Power 250    Fuel Use 44.27%    Signature 250    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 35,000 Litres    Range 5.7 billion km (13 days at full power)
G1-SSG Alpha S1 / R150 Shields (1)     Recharge Time 150 seconds (0 per second)

G2-SGCT Single G2-HS6-GC Gauss Cannon R300-100 Turret (1x3)    Range 30,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
G2-SWSBFC Beam Fire Control R32-TS12000 (SW) (70%) (1)     Max Range: 32,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     69 38 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

G1-BML Size 5 Box Launcher (2)     Missile Size: 5    Hangar Reload 111 minutes    MF Reload 18 hours
G2-FSMFC Missile Fire Control FC16-R50 (70%) (1)     Range 16.6m km    Resolution 50
G4DF (2)    Speed: 15,600 km/s    End: 27.1m     Range: 25.4m km    WH: 4    Size: 5    TH: 52/31/15

G3-SSASS Active Search Sensor AS23-R50 (70%) (1)     GPS 800     Range 23.5m km    Resolution 50
G3-SMASS Active Search Sensor AS6-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 16     Range 6.4m km    MCR 574.5k km    Resolution 1
BTNS Thermal Sensor TH0.2-1.0 (1)     Sensitivity 1     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  7.9m km
BEMNS EM Sensor EM0.2-1.0 (1)     Sensitivity 1     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  7.9m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes
5,000 ton frigate is close too:
Code: [Select]
Iltis G2 class Frigate      5,000 tons       140 Crew       609.5 BP       TCS 100    TH 250    EM 60
2500 km/s      Armour 4-26       Shields 2-150       HTK 36      Sensors 2/2/0/0      DCR 5      PPV 28.8
Maint Life 10.42 Years     MSP 1,096    AFR 40%    IFR 0.6%    1YR 18    5YR 276    Max Repair 125 MSP
Troop Capacity 100 tons     Magazine 115   
Captain    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 1.25 months    Morale Check Required   

G4-ME Improved Nuclear Pulse Engine  EP250.00 (1)    Power 250    Fuel Use 44.27%    Signature 250    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 100,000 Litres    Range 8.1 billion km (37 days at full power)
G1-SSG Alpha S1 / R150 Shields (2)     Recharge Time 150 seconds (0 per second)

G2-SLT Single G2-HS3 10cm C1.5 Visible Light Laser Turret (2x1)    Range 60,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 3-1.5     RM 20,000 km    ROF 10       
G2-SGCT Single G2-HS6-GC Gauss Cannon R300-100 Turret (1x3)    Range 30,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
G2-ESBFC Beam Fire Control R64-TS12000 (70%) (1)     Max Range: 64,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     84 69 53 38 22 6 0 0 0 0
G2-SWSBFC Beam Fire Control R32-TS12000 (SW) (70%) (1)     Max Range: 32,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     69 38 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
G3-O3PP Improved Pebble Bed Reactor R3 (1)     Total Power Output 3    Exp 5%

G1-.3ML Size 5 Missile Launcher (30.0% Reduction) (8)     Missile Size: 5    Rate of Fire 6710
G1-SSMFC Missile Fire Control FC32-R50 (70%) (1)     Range 32.2m km    Resolution 50
G4DF (23)    Speed: 15,600 km/s    End: 27.1m     Range: 25.4m km    WH: 4    Size: 5    TH: 52/31/15

G3-SMASS Active Search Sensor AS6-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 16     Range 6.4m km    MCR 574.5k km    Resolution 1
G3-SSASS Active Search Sensor AS23-R50 (70%) (1)     GPS 800     Range 23.5m km    Resolution 50
.4EMS EM Sensor EM0.4-2.0 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 2     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  11.2m km
.4TS Thermal Sensor TH0.4-2.0 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 2     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  11.2m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes
Bigger designs soon-ish...
Posted by: nuclearslurpee
« on: July 10, 2021, 10:46:58 AM »

Quote from: Blogaugis on July 10, 2021, 10:06:30 AM
Quote from: serger on July 10, 2021, 09:14:12 AM
There is no relief in space, so no need to have full range radar at every fighter and/or bomber - you'll need only 1 radar in range (2, if you like to have a spare) to guide your missile salvos, so a common practice is to have missile design without active sensors or with minimal 1-res close range one, and another design - specialized AWACS or EWC with radar only, 1 or 2 for every missile squadron or wing.
Is it have to be in the same fleet? Or can there be multiple fleets?

It doesn't matter. The rule is simply that as long as an enemy ship is detected by some active sensor of your race, you can fire at it as long as it is within MFC range.

Quote
In that case, maintenance storage for fighters seems a pointless component, exists solely to make it that designs be in nice, round numbers...
Though... How about the idea of giving them some capability to carry out independent operations?

It can be useful to add just enough MSP to fix a single failure, which can occasionally be a good idea. Also the fighter-size components are good for reconnaissance fighters that will spend days rather than hours away from a carrier.

Quote
Well, that means that the 1 month of deployment time should help when the platform is being relocated to a world far far away.

The deployment time doesn't matter too much, because it will recover fairly quickly once you are in orbit of a populated colony.

It can matter more if you are building stations for deep space or JP defense but then a recreational station is probably better to accompany a group of defense stations.

----

Regarding the current designs iteration, the largest thing missing is engine boosting. All of your fighters are at merely 1.0x boost which is limiting by itself, but far worse is the missiles situation. Even the NPRs with their terrible designs can easily get ASMs with over 20,000 km/s at INPE tech level, by using the EP boost techs. For missiles this will also give better speed per MSP allowing you to put a larger warhead on your missiles, or to start gaining MR to improve accuracy. For example, with reasonable INPE-level techs you can build a missile that is size 5, WH 6, speed over 20k km/s, and has MR=12 and 20m to 30m km range, with the EP boost tech up to 2.0x. This is admittedly a bit short range for a ASM but it illustrates what should be possible. Alternatively you can drop the WH to 4 in order to have more like 40m km range which is a nice number for INPE tech.

Your speeds in general while better are still a bit lackluster. At INPE tech level I would say 3000 km/s is the bare minimum, really only for missile ships. The NPRs will probably be in a range of maybe 3200 to 3500 km/s so as a player you should ideally exceed this, certainly with fighters you should exceed this by a lot using the EP boost techs, otherwise why use fighters at all?
Posted by: Blogaugis
« on: July 10, 2021, 10:06:30 AM »

Quote from: serger on July 10, 2021, 09:14:12 AM
There is no relief in space, so no need to have full range radar at every fighter and/or bomber - you'll need only 1 radar in range (2, if you like to have a spare) to guide your missile salvos, so a common practice is to have missile design without active sensors or with minimal 1-res close range one, and another design - specialized AWACS or EWC with radar only, 1 or 2 for every missile squadron or wing.
Is it have to be in the same fleet? Or can there be multiple fleets?
Quote from: serger on July 10, 2021, 09:14:12 AM
It is also no need to have so long Maint Life for your strike craft models, because they'll be maintained at hangars or in orbit of their base. It is very unlikely that any of them will catch failure during their 3-day-long mission. It is though rather rational to have long Maint Life for training fighters - just to have long training missions.
In that case, maintenance storage for fighters seems a pointless component, exists solely to make it that designs be in nice, round numbers...
Though... How about the idea of giving them some capability to carry out independent operations?
Quote from: serger on July 10, 2021, 09:14:12 AM
Being towed by a tug is considered deployed, the same as being in orbit without sufficient maintenance facility or module.
Well, that means that the 1 month of deployment time should help when the platform is being relocated to a world far far away.