Raider Spawn Rate (Spoiler Alert)

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

For v2.1.1, I've changed the raiders to only start generating additional ships after the player reaches the trigger for the number of systems.

The time multiple will still be from game start for now as that would require a DB change. I could tackle that in the next DB update.

I've reduced the disproportionate escort group for salvage ships, but that will not take effect until the next DB update.

As suggested I have also changed default starting population to one billion for players.

Since you've got inbound DB changes maybe it would be a good idea to release 2.1.1 on account the number of fixes and especially the raider teleport fix which I would argue is a pretty big deal.

Yes, I am trying to get through the bug list now. Should be out by tomorrow.

[db48x]

 

Did you just… announce a release date‽

surprised pikachu!!!!!1

[Paul M]

It took 4 tries for the raiders to not show up and exterminate my population before I even got TN technology though admittedly on the 3rd try I managed to build some defences, but then got hit with a raider fleet which dropped 2000 elite infantry on me.  None of my weapons could penetrate their armour so that was a painful experience.  The first ship showing up blew up my space yard, then a second raider visit destroyed my ground combat facility even though I managed to destroy it with STO fire.  But against that fleet even 26 15 cm plasma carronades wasn't anywhere near sufficient.  I killed 2 more raider light ships but the heavier ones were too tough to affect before their firepower destroyed the STOs.  The 3rd attempt I had just got TN tech but had not really gotten anywhere with it.

My suggestion is that the raiders actually behave like raiders.  They land steal wealth, minerals and population (if so inclined) but leave the bulk of the colony intact so they can come back for more.  If they encounter say a lone refinery ship or mining ship they make it refuel them or else abscond with the minerals.  They pirate civilian ships or take them as prizes etc.  As it is now they are exterminating the goose that lays the eggs.  This would make them less of a game over event to slower/conventional starts.

My fourth attempt I set them to 20 systems as opposed to 10 as I have frankly nearly explored 10 and am still barely space capable (starting: population 250 m/4 research/1 shipyard/256 CI).  At least my new land forces could engage the raider infantry with some chance of success. 

[KriegsMeister]

I think the biggest thing with Raiders is that they are just randomized Invaders. The way the build up and interact with the player and npr races are near identical except Raiders are more likely to run if they are outnumbered and can spawn anywhere and everywhere rather than be limited to Aether Rifts. They are just as capable of wiping out the player as the Invaders, Swarm, or a game start NPR. The Raiders imo should be closer in capabilities and function as Precursors and Rahkas, more of a road block rather than an existential threat.

I would suggest that they don't build up over time at all, but rather every build cycle have a % chance of spawning a ship, few ships, fleet, or multiple fleets. These ships would focus on destroying or capturing (they really should have boarding craft imo) civilian shipping or attacking undefended colonies to steal population or mineral stockpiles. They should avoid contact with warships unless they feel they are significantly stronger than the player's ship(s) or planetary defenses (they really need a speed bump to run more effectively). But most importantly I think that once their ships run out of fuel they move to their initial jump point and get out, closing the door behind them. Whatever they steal in BP value could then be added to their next incursion.

This I think would better represent them as pirates and raiders and keep them in that roadblock level of difficulty as Precursors and Rahkas

[Destragon]

I was also pretty surprised by the raiders in that I thought they would just be a couple pirate ships that show up rarely, but then people started talking about how their whole homeworld was destroyed by hundreds of raider ships. They really are a lot more like the invaders than just simple pirates. Not that that's a bad thing, since that's also cool to have in game, but it's different.

We'll see how much different they feel now in 2.1.1.

[boolybooly]

Something else about spawn rates which might be worth mentioning is the idea of modifying them by the research multiplier, which also applies to the invader timers which I remember being dicussed elsewhere.

Sometimes people like to play with longer research eras but if they do that then if the scaling spoilers occur at a fixed level of ferocity then they may find they are squashed like a bug.

If the raider spawn rate is X*(1+years/20) then you could also add a term for the research % i.e. X*1+(years/20*research%term)

So if the research rate is 20% then that would mean 0.2 times as ferocious a build up. Likewise with the invader timer, it could be divided by the research multiplier so it takes 5x longer.

The only problem with that is you can change the research multiplier on the fly, if you did that after 200 years you might get a nasty surprise! But it would give players a way of regulating the spoiler, with a balancing research penalty built in.

[Collin Thomas]

Hey so I've never said anything on this forum yet, but I wanted to say something about the raiders here. 

First I wanted to thank Mr Walmsey for making this game, which scratches a very particular itch of mine, I love it so much. 

That said, I do agree the raiders are a little broken. 

At the moment, the practical difficulty of the raiders is, really, tied to the number of NPRs in your game (assuming you set it so that NPRs encounter them too, which I imagine most do).   The more NPRs, the more places for them to spawn (which aren't in your home system), and the less likely you'll encounter them. 

I'm not exactly aware of how difficult this would be, but would it honestly be that hard to just include a difficulty setting during game parameters to control the % chance of a raider spawning?

In a game which already has severe problems with accessibility to new players, I'd imagine something like this would be very important

[nuclearslurpee]

At the moment, the practical difficulty of the raiders is, really, tied to the number of NPRs in your game (assuming you set it so that NPRs encounter them too, which I imagine most do).

I do not, and since it is not the default setting I assume most don't either, though I know Steve does sometimes. Personally I avoid enabling NPR-spoiler encounters as it ends up being another way to slow down the game in a hail of short increments.

Maybe one solution would be to have a number box in the game start settings for a number of raider factions to spawn in. If there are, say, 3 Raider factions instead of 1, Raiders are 3x as likely to spawn, and having them in several factions would mean each set of Raiders has different weapons and ship designs, adding a bit of unpredictability.

That said, this is properly something to post in the Suggestions Thread rather than resurrecting a 2-year-old development thread. 

[Napier]

will swarm, invaders and raiders fight each other?

I have seen the wreck remnants of raiders that attacked a precursor planet, including a commercial ship.