Ships of the Empire

[Starkiller (OP)]

You're right, it's the default fuel tank. I didn't think you could replace it. I'll do that as it'll give me more room. If another point to the S4 will let it penetrate another layer of armour, then I'm going to revise the S4 to WH49. Every little bit helps.

Eric

[UnLimiTeD]

To calculate that:
It's always a square.
1², 2², 3², 4², 5²....
1 , 4 , 9 , 16, 25, ....

As for the fuel, 20k should give a reasonable range to most fighters and gunboats.
For long range missions, or scouting, 50 k should do it.

[Hawkeye]

Given you left the default fueltank in, you did remove the bridge, did you? Ships up to 1000t don´t need one.

Just to make sure

[Starkiller (OP)]

Code: [Select]

Viper class Fighter    450 tons     56 Crew     1222.4 BP      TCS 9  TH 7.2  EM 0
40000 km/s     Armour 3-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 2
Annual Failure Rate: 1%    IFR: 0%    Maint Capacity 1698 MSP    Max Repair 525 MSP    Est Time: 19.48 Years

FTR Beam Core Anti-matter Drive E250 (1)    Power 360    Fuel Use 2500%    Signature 7.2    Armour 0    Exp 175%
Fuel Capacity 20,000 Litres    Range 3.2 billion km   (22 hours at full power)

10cm C3 Far Gamma Ray Laser [.75 size] (1)    Range 350,000km     TS: 40000 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 12    ROF 5        3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3
Fire Control S01 175-20000 (1)    Max Range: 350,000 km   TS: 20000 km/s     97 94 91 89 86 83 80 77 74 71
Beam Core Anti-matter Power Plant Technology PB-1 AR-0 (1)     Total Power Output 3.2    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR0-R1 (10%) (1)     GPS 13.5     Range 810k km    Resolution 1

Small Craft ECCM-4 (1)         ECM 40

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a fighter for production and combat purposes

How's this? Enough fuel for 22 hours of operation, armour at 3, ecm-4 added, and a top speed of 40000 km/s, and still under 500 tons. Now the Anaconda's turn. ^_-

Eric

[UnLimiTeD]

Getting seriously useable.
However, with that small fighter, maybe try to somehow squeeze a meson in?

[Starkiller (OP)]

I don't know. In the design stage, I didn't see a size reduction for the meson cannon, and in it's 10 cm form, it as big as the 10cm laser WITHOUT reduction. I'd need 150 tons worth of space to squeeze it in. I'd need to remove the laser, and it still might not fit. I'm kinda reluctant to remove the laser as the meson cannon seems a rather piddling weapon to me, unless I'm missing something. The laser does 3 damage to the meson cannon's 1 damage, plus has a greater range. What IS it that makes people mention the meson weapon as a good fighter choice over a downsized laser. Just curious as I've heard it mentioned before.

Eric

[UnLimiTeD]

Meson weapons ignore armor and shields.
Given a fighter can only have so much firepower, and an enemy battleship might have more rows of armor than you have fighters, and given you'll use them in numbers, they might actually hit something critical faster than a regular weapon will breach the enemy hull.
Also, they obviously have no damage drop off.

[Brian Neumann]

The main difference between lasers and mesons is that the meson ignores all armour and shields.  This means that every time you hit you will do internal damage.  The downside to this is that mesons only do 1 point of damage and if you hit a system that has a higher hits to kill number then the chance of destroying the system is the ratio between the two.  

Example  A 5 HTK system takes 1 point of damage(from any source) the chance it will be destroyed is 1/5 or 20%.

A 2 HTK system takes 1 point of damage and its chance is 1/2 or 50%.

A good example of this is a large turret (20cm quad lasers) which has a HTK of 12.  A meson does not have a good chance to kill this with one shot.  Most systems however are not this large, and almost all of the electronic/fire control ecm ect have a htk of 1 so they can be easily killed.  Magazines will have a varying htk based on their design and weapons in general have a low htk untill you get to the largest sizes.

Basic shorthand of beam weapons

Lasers                      Long range and good damage  can be mounted on turrets for point defense work
Mesons                     Short range, 1 point damage but ignore all shields/armour can be mounted on turrets
Particle beams          Long range, low damage size of weapon not a factor in range, not turret mountable
Railguns                   Short range, high damage but shallow armour penetration for thier size,  not turret mountable
Plasma Carronade     Short range high damage low cost, not turret mountable

With the exeption of the Particle beam (used to be called torpedo's not to confuse with plasma torpedo), all weapons have thier range based in part on the initial damage and the damage dropping off with range.  This results in larger caliber weapons having a longer range.  With particle beams it is a fixed range based on tech and the weapon does the same damage over its entire range.

Plasma carronade has the same damage output of a matching laser, but is significantly cheaper as there is no range enhancing tech to factor into its cost.  Also a 15cm mount costs the same as a 10cm laser so they tend to cost 1/2 or less of the lasers cost.

Hope this helps you understand all of the beam weapons not just the mesons.

Brian

[Starkiller (OP)]

It does give me a better idea of the advantages/disadvantages of each system. As for fighters, you're both right. If the meson ignores the ship's passive defences, then it is FAR superior to the laser as a fighter weapon. Back to the drawing board.

Eric

[Starkiller (OP)]

Here's the revamped Viper fighter and Anaconda bomber.

Code: [Select]



Anaconda class Bomber    500 tons     40 Crew     643.2 BP      TCS 10  TH 7.2  EM 0
36000 km/s     Armour 7-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 2.4
Annual Failure Rate: 2%    IFR: 0%    Maint Capacity 804 MSP    Max Repair 225 MSP    Est Time: 18.4 Years
Magazine 16    

FTR Beam Core Anti-matter Drive E250 (1)    Power 360    Fuel Use 2500%    Signature 7.2    Armour 0    Exp 175%
Fuel Capacity 20,000 Litres    Range 2.9 billion km   (22 hours at full power)

Size 4 Box Launcher (4)    Missile Size 4    Hangar Reload 30 minutes    MF Reload 5 hours
Missile Fire Control FC117-R100 (10%) (1)     Range 117.6m km    Resolution 100
Size 4 Anti-ship Missile mkII (4)  Speed: 100,000 km/s   End: 12.6m    Range: 75.6m km   WH: 49    Size: 4    TH: 2300 / 1380 / 690

Active Search Sensor MR117-R145 (10%) (1)     GPS 1957.5     Range 117.5m km    Resolution 145

Small Craft ECCM-4 (1)         ECM 40

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a fighter for production and combat purposes


Code: [Select]


Viper class Fighter    495 tons     71 Crew     1040.8 BP      TCS 9.9  TH 7.2  EM 0
36363 km/s     Armour 2-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 3
Annual Failure Rate: 1%    IFR: 0%    Maint Capacity 1314 MSP    Max Repair 525 MSP    Est Time: 15.48 Years

FTR Beam Core Anti-matter Drive E250 (1)    Power 360    Fuel Use 2500%    Signature 7.2    Armour 0    Exp 175%
Fuel Capacity 20,000 Litres    Range 2.9 billion km   (22 hours at full power)

R16.5/C3 Meson Cannon (1)    Range 165,000km     TS: 36363 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 16.5    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
Fire Control S01 175-20000 (1)    Max Range: 350,000 km   TS: 20000 km/s     97 94 91 89 86 83 80 77 74 71
Beam Core Anti-matter Power Plant Technology PB-1 AR-0 (1)     Total Power Output 3.2    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR0-R1 (10%) (1)     GPS 13.5     Range 810k km    Resolution 1

Small Craft ECCM-4 (1)         ECM 40

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a fighter for production and combat purposes


[Brian Neumann]

For beam weapons there is a special entry for fighter fire control.  Look for it at the bottom of the design screen.  It automatically gives a x4 tracking speed mod without any jump in cost or size.

Brian

[Starkiller (OP)]

I never even noted that.

Code: [Select]

Viper class Fighter    495 tons     71 Crew     1303.8 BP      TCS 9.9  TH 7.2  EM 0
36363 km/s     Armour 2-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 3
Annual Failure Rate: 1%    IFR: 0%    Maint Capacity 1646 MSP    Max Repair 788 MSP    Est Time: 14.1 Years

FTR Beam Core Anti-matter Drive E250 (1)    Power 360    Fuel Use 2500%    Signature 7.2    Armour 0    Exp 175%
Fuel Capacity 20,000 Litres    Range 2.9 billion km   (22 hours at full power)

R16.5/C3 Meson Cannon (1)    Range 165,000km     TS: 36363 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 16.5    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
Fire Control S01 175-10000 H10 (FTR) (1)    Max Range: 350,000 km   TS: 40000 km/s     97 94 91 89 86 83 80 77 74 71
Beam Core Anti-matter Power Plant Technology PB-1 AR-0 (1)     Total Power Output 3.2    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR0-R1 (10%) (1)     GPS 13.5     Range 810k km    Resolution 1

Small Craft ECCM-4 (1)         ECM 40

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a fighter for production and combat purposes

That should pretty much do it.

Eric

[UnLimiTeD]

Shouldn't that also reduce the size?
Also, with a lot of fighters, I don't think you need your ASS to have heavy electronic hardening, 50% would already be pushing it.
You could save massive in production cost.

[welchbloke]

Also, do you intend for the fighters to operate in an anti missile role?  If not the Resolution could be dropped to optimized for 500 tonnes.  That might save you some room/weight.

[Deutschbag]

I'd recommend not sticking active sensors on either your bomber or fighter. Instead, design a dedicated sensor platform fighter that launches with the squadron and provides sensor support. I'm not at home so I don't have any examples of my own to show you, but for the purposes of providing an example, I'll copy and paste Steve's R-26 Krait from the NATO/Soviets campaign.

Code: [Select]

R-26A Krait class Recon Fighter    250 tons     23 Crew     83.2 BP      TCS 5  TH 36  EM 0
7200 km/s     Armour 1-3     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 50%    IFR: 0.7%    Maint Capacity 0 MSP    Max Repair 63 MSP    Est Time: 0 Years

Pratt & Whitney F150 Ion Engine (1)    Power 36    Fuel Use 7000%    Signature 36    Armour 0    Exp 25%
Fuel Capacity 20,000 Litres    Range 2.1 billion km   (3 days at full power)
SN/APS-3 Active Search Sensor (1)     GPS 6300     Range 69.3m km    Resolution 100
It's a pretty effective strategy. The downside is that losing your control fighter means you lose active sensor support, but I feel that the benefit of having a dedicated platform with greater sensor range than would be possible in a mixed-class fighter outweighs it.