Challenge: Design a Hive ship

[DoctorDanny (OP)]

I was thinking about a scenario where a species lost its homeworld and travelled the universe in hive ships.
I'm thinking 'Eldar Craftworld Light', so single Ships that operate alone, far away from any support.
These guys are desperate survivors in search of a new homeworld.

I tried to design some, but I'm still very nooby at ship design, so I'd love to see the input of you expert-veterans.

Requirments:
-These ships would need to have harvesting/mining equipment as well as manufacturing/repair facilities.
-They need to carry colonists (stasis?) as well as a population of workers.
-Ideally I'd like them to be able to defend themselves as well, but maybe they use smaller ships to do that.
-Mobile (speed is not that important).
-Tech-level within the first three to four steps of the main techs.
-Either jump capable or carrying jump-point stabilization equipment/ship.

[DFNewb]

If you are willing to be nicer on the restrictions you can make armorless stations that can hold a lot of people and have them moved around by tugs, they can also have other ships in hangers for defense and mining. Being a station they can hold population (but you would need to transport it in stasis I think) and be able to do manufacturing and stuff if it has the installations in cargo and able to unload them on a body to do it.

The problem is that either this has to be a massive station that would take many years to build and probably still barely be able to carry many colonists or installations from your home planet.

[Shooer]

Honestly the biggest hurdle to this game style in Aurora is population and wealth.  It's possible, but you need to design your ships to handle more population than you have, and will probably not be enough. 

Your ships are going to have to park over a body to unload their population from cryo and stay there for a few years to gather minerals, make/repair ships, research, train crew officers, make ground forces, ect.

Tried it a long time ago with VB6.  The combined habs and fleet could handle 500mil pop and started with 200mil.  Hab space wasn't enough after the first stop.  So I just ended up terraforming a few planets in the system.  So a totally nomadic game isn't strictly easy, but a race that sends the massive mother fleet to find/colonize a new home world is possible.

[xenoscepter]

This may take awhile, so please standby.

[01010100]

You could carry construction ground units in troop transport bays for manufacturing ability, rather than construction facilities in cargo holds.

[xenoscepter]

I'm gonna take a break for today, but here's what I have so far:

(This is all WIP)

The Hive Ship

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Hive Ship class Hive Ship      5,583,894 tons       43,965 Crew       183,627.7 BP       TCS 111,678    TH 0    EM 0
1 km/s      Armour 1-2803       Shields 0-0       HTK 12654      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 5600      PPV 0
MSP 515,098    Max Repair 2000 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 200,000 tons     Cargo 900,000    Habitation Capacity 1,000,000    Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 50   
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 180 months    Flight Crew Berths 4,000   
Jump Point Stabilisation: 360 days
Recreational Facilities
Maintenance Modules: 200 module(s) capable of supporting ships of 200,000 tons

Fuel Capacity 7,500,000 Litres    Range N/A
Refuelling Capability: 50,000 litres per hour     Complete Refuel 150 hours

Strike Group
25x Geo Survey Craft Geological Survey Craft   Speed: 750 km/s    Size: 9.99
25x Grav Survey Craft Gravitational Survey Craft   Speed: 750 km/s    Size: 9.99

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes

Brief Summary:

Off-Topic: show

 --- It has the ability to stabilize a jump point; I chose the Small module because the Hive Ship is supposed to be a carrier / base platform. Outside of moving to and through jump points, it doesn't need to much move at all. The vessel dedicates 100,000 Tons to minerals.

The ship's installation compliment is as follows:

 - 1x Mass Drive

 - 3x Fighter Factories

 - 3x Ordinance Factories

 - 3x Fuel Refineries

 - 3x Auto Mines

The ship's parasite compliment is as follows:

 - 25x Geological Survey Craft

 - 25x Gravitational Survey Craft

 - 1x Ambassador Corvette

 - 2x Tug Corvette

 - 3x Colony Ship

 - 2x Resource Collectors

 - 2x Salvager

The Support Ships

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Ambassador Corvette class Ambassador Corvette      5,000 tons       108 Crew       534.4 BP       TCS 100    TH 300    EM 0
3000 km/s      Armour 1-26       Shields 0-0       HTK 24      Sensors 1/5/0/0      DCR 3      PPV 0
MSP 713    Max Repair 300 MSP
Troop Capacity 200 tons     
Captain    Control Rating 1   BRG   DIP   
Intended Deployment Time: 5.5 months   

Commercial Ion Drive  EP300.00 (1)    Power 300.0    Fuel Use 8.07%    Signature 300.00    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 102,000 Litres    Range 45.5 billion km (175 days at full power)

Navicomputer 50 (1)     GPS 10     Range 4m km    MCR 434.4k km    Resolution 1
Navicomputer 5000 (1)     GPS 1000     Range 18.5m km    Resolution 100
TH Calibration System (1)     Sensitivity 1     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  7.9m km
Navicomputer EM Calibration System (1)     Sensitivity 5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  17.7m km

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes


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Colony Ship class Colony Ship      20,000 tons       263 Crew       755.1 BP       TCS 400    TH 600    EM 0
1500 km/s      Armour 1-65       Shields 0-0       HTK 64      Sensors 1/1/0/0      DCR 28      PPV 0
MSP 4,260    Max Repair 75.000 MSP
Cargo 10,000    Cryogenic Berths 400    Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 4   
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 7.2 months   

Commercial Ion Drive  EP300.00 (2)    Power 600.0    Fuel Use 8.07%    Signature 300.00    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 249,000 Litres    Range 27.8 billion km (214 days at full power)
Refuelling Capability: 50,000 litres per hour     Complete Refuel 4 hours

Panetary Surface Scanner (1)     GPS 1     Range 1.3m km    MCR 137.4k km    Resolution 1
Planetary Detection Scanner (1)     GPS 500     Range 10m km    Resolution 500
TH Calibration System (1)     Sensitivity 1     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  7.9m km
EM Calibration System (1)     Sensitivity 1     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  7.9m km

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes


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Geo Survey Craft class Geological Survey Craft      500 tons       26 Crew       178.3 BP       TCS 10    TH 8    EM 0
750 km/s      Armour 1-5       Shields 0-0       HTK 4      Sensors 0/0/0/1      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 14.05 Years     MSP 180    AFR 4%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 2    5YR 26    Max Repair 100 MSP
Commander    Control Rating 1   SCI   
Intended Deployment Time: 27 days    Morale Check Required   

Ion Drive  EP3.75 (2)    Power 7.5    Fuel Use 243.57%    Signature 3.75    Explosion 7%
Fuel Capacity 12,000 Litres    Range 1.8 billion km (27 days at full power)

Panetary Surface Scanner (1)     GPS 1     Range 1.3m km    MCR 137.4k km    Resolution 1
Geological Survey Sensors (1)   1 Survey Points Per Hour

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction


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Grav Survey Craft class Gravitational Survey Craft      500 tons       26 Crew       178.3 BP       TCS 10    TH 8    EM 0
750 km/s      Armour 1-5       Shields 0-0       HTK 4      Sensors 0/0/1/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 14.05 Years     MSP 180    AFR 4%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 2    5YR 26    Max Repair 100 MSP
Commander    Control Rating 1   SCI   
Intended Deployment Time: 27 days    Morale Check Required   

Ion Drive  EP3.75 (2)    Power 7.5    Fuel Use 243.57%    Signature 3.75    Explosion 7%
Fuel Capacity 12,000 Litres    Range 1.8 billion km (27 days at full power)

Panetary Surface Scanner (1)     GPS 1     Range 1.3m km    MCR 137.4k km    Resolution 1
Gravitational Survey Sensors (1)   1 Survey Points Per Hour

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction


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Resource Collector class Resource Collecotr      25,000 tons       245 Crew       831.4 BP       TCS 500    TH 750    EM 0
1500 km/s      Armour 1-76       Shields 0-0       HTK 58      Sensors 1/1/0/0      DCR 5      PPV 0
MSP 2,043    Max Repair 120 MSP
Cargo 500    Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 2   
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 18.1 months   
Fuel Harvester: 2 modules producing 80,000 litres per annum
Orbital Miner: 2 modules producing 20 tons per mineral per annum

Commercial Ion Drive  EP375.00 (2)    Power 750    Fuel Use 7.22%    Signature 375    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 811,000 Litres    Range 80.9 billion km (624 days at full power)
Refuelling Capability: 50,000 litres per hour     Complete Refuel 16 hours

Planetary Detection Scanner (1)     GPS 500     Range 10m km    Resolution 500
TH Calibration System (1)     Sensitivity 1     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  7.9m km
EM Calibration System (1)     Sensitivity 1     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  7.9m km

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes


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Salvager class Salvager      25,000 tons       205 Crew       772.2 BP       TCS 500    TH 750    EM 0
1500 km/s      Armour 1-76       Shields 0-0       HTK 43      Sensors 5/5/0/0      DCR 5      PPV 0
MSP 916    Max Repair 200 MSP
Cargo 6,500    Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 2    Tractor Beam     
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 3.1 months   
Salvager: 1 module(s) capable of salvaging 500 tons per day

Commercial Ion Drive  EP375.00 (2)    Power 750    Fuel Use 7.22%    Signature 375    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 121,000 Litres    Range 12.1 billion km (93 days at full power)

Navicomputer 5000 (1)     GPS 1000     Range 18.5m km    Resolution 100
Navicomputer 50 (1)     GPS 10     Range 4m km    MCR 434.4k km    Resolution 1
Navicomputer TH Calibration System (1)     Sensitivity 5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  17.7m km
Navicomputer EM Calibration System (1)     Sensitivity 5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  17.7m km

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes


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Tug Corvette class Tug Corvette      5,000 tons       76 Crew       360 BP       TCS 100    TH 450    EM 0
4500 km/s      Armour 1-26       Shields 0-0       HTK 25      Sensors 1/5/0/0      DCR 3      PPV 0
MSP 877    Max Repair 112.500 MSP
Tractor Beam     
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 5.6 months   

Commercial Ion Drive  EP450.00 (1)    Power 450.0    Fuel Use 6.59%    Signature 450.00    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 127,000 Litres    Range 69.4 billion km (178 days at full power)

Navicomputer 50 (1)     GPS 10     Range 4m km    MCR 434.4k km    Resolution 1
Navicomputer 5000 (1)     GPS 1000     Range 18.5m km    Resolution 100
TH Calibration System (1)     Sensitivity 1     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  7.9m km
Navicomputer EM Calibration System (1)     Sensitivity 5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  17.7m km

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes



[DoctorDanny (OP)]

You could carry construction ground units in troop transport bays for manufacturing ability, rather than construction facilities in cargo holds.

That might work. Drop down onto a planet, build the stuff you need and move out again. We could do some stripmining while we're there

[DoctorDanny (OP)]

@Xenoscepter:

Man, that's impressive allready. A 6 million ton behemoth!

First thoughts:
I'm unsure how it would operate the facilities though.
Can they function in space or would they have to be dropped down to a surface?

I like that you've added lots of (nice and compact) survey craft.
I picture this monster appearing through a jumppoint, unleashing a swarm of survey drones to find valuables throughout the system.

I've zero experience with tugs yet.
What speed would they be able to get, dragging this big mama?

Can't see much in the way of defences yet though ;-)

[DFNewb]

You could carry construction ground units in troop transport bays for manufacturing ability, rather than construction facilities in cargo holds.

That might work. Drop down onto a planet, build the stuff you need and move out again. We could do some stripmining while we're there

I just did some simple math / testing ingame.

The way to go for your plan is DEFINITELY construction vehicles. They are much more space efficient to transport and I don't think they need population to function and might not even be affected by modifiers.


As for the design of the habitat that will get towed I would give it the no armor flag so you can build it using construction factories instead of with a spacestation complex.

[xenoscepter]

I plan to stick engines on it, don't worry. The tugs are for stranded vessels.

[spazomatic]

I have spent a lot of time recently trying to concept this out recently myself and I have reached the conclusion that it isn't viable using a single monolithic ship or station.   The real breaking point for me is just how big the orbital habitat modules are vs.  how many colonists they support.   The largest station you can really build I believe is 9,375,000 tons because that is the largest jump drive you can construct.

9. 3mil Commercial Jump Drive JC9375K Commercial Jump Drive
Max Ship Size 9,375,000 tons    Jump Radius 25k km     Squadron Size 2
Max Ship Size vs Drive Size Ratio 19
Cost 62797. 2   Size 500,000 tons   Crew 2000   HTK 200
Base Change to hit 100%
Materials Required: Duranium  12,559. 44    Sorium  50,237. 76

If you build a station with nothing but jump drive and orbital habitats then you can squeeze in 17 habitats which only supports 3. 4mil orbital workers, not nearly enough to be viable.
If you go with the cryogenic berths the maximum population would be 35,080,000 colonists.   Still not enough to really run a full colony. 

I too hit upon the idea of using ground force based construction teams in place of construction factories to reduce population requirements, but I don't think this is financially viable.   I am going to assume your current planet you are operating on will need 1000 construction factories.   The most efficient space/cost for the ground based construction are medium construction vehicles.  Moving them isn't too big a problem, looks like you can do that with 65 large troop transport berths, but financially this would require 127,200 wealth/annum which seems completely infeasible.

I do think a flotilla of hive stations (or ships maybe) could be viable, but would probably become pretty logistically overwhelming.   

I haven't fiddled with it yet, but wondering if you can set up some sort of tractor beam daisy chain so once you get it all set up, you just have to tractor the first station in the chain with your tug and move the whole group of stations at once.  Probably won't work, but it would be amusing if it did.

[DoctorDanny (OP)]

I'm not really sure on how stabilized jump points work. Is there an upper mass they allow through?
If not then you can simply use stabilization modules to stabilize new points and move your Hive ship through without a jump drive.

[Alsadius]

I'm not really sure on how stabilized jump points work. Is there an upper mass they allow through?
If not then you can simply use stabilization modules to stabilize new points and move your Hive ship through without a jump drive.

And a stabilization module is way lighter than a max-size jump engine, too.

[Father Tim]

I'm not really sure on how stabilized jump points work. Is there an upper mass they allow through?

Nope.

If not then you can simply use stabilization modules to stabilize new points and move your Hive ship through without a jump drive.

Yup.

[spazomatic]

ok, well that just takes all the fun out of it 

The last few games I have played I just use jump engines so that hadn't actually occurred to me, but it would still be a ridiculously large ship to achieve any meaningful level of population