Point defence

[Brian Neumann]

True. I was hoping res 40 would be low enough to see missles. As you mentioned, I already discovered the space problem with res 1 at maximum
missle range. I'll experiment a bit to see how far I can push it. I's be satisfied with have the missle range if I can shoe-horn it in. Other than that,
would you say the rest of the ship systems would pass muster if I can get the active sensor set properly? Also, I have a dedicated missle ship which
includes size 4 anti-ship launchers and size 1 anti-missle launchers. I have two separate MFC systems, with a res 1 for the counter missles. I'd need
two active system as well, wouldn't I? One to detect ships, and one to detect incoming missles.

Eric

Yes, you will need to have two active systems.  The problem with missile detection active sensor is that it is extremely short ranged against anything larger than a missile.  I usually try to put on a small missile detection radar on all ships that can see out slightly farther than the pd weapons on the ship.  This is usually a .5 or 1 hull space radar installation.  I then put a bigger resolution radar on that is 2-3hs for detecting ships.  With dedicated escorts I usually invert this with an active sensor of .5hs that has a resolution of 20.  This will allow me to target them with my weapons, and see them at a few million km.  For longer range detection they are relying on the ships they are escorting.  Then they will add in their missile detection system with usually 5hs on smaller ships 8-10 on larger escorts.

One little trick to note is that the .5hs anti-missile active sensor is very hard to detect with em sensors, but it will usually see out to effective beam weapon ranges.  I have been known to have just that system on a coupld of small ships (FAC) active so that my pd beam weapons are up, and knowbody can get into point blank range without me seeing them.  This lets you move a fleet in without the massive active sensor signature which can often be seen across a solar system without giving up all anti-missile defences.

Brian

[Starkiller (OP)]

Here's one I'm designing to go against Precursors. I've been told Lasers work better than missles, plus my Laser tech is much more advanced than my
missle tech. Do I need a res 1 active sensor if I'm usin Lasers for PD, or is that only for missles? The other thing they suggested was speed. While it
seriously ups the explostion potential, the survey cruiser clocked the precursor at 7900 km/s before being destroyed, so I need all the speed I can get
out of them.

Eric

[Starkiller (OP)]

Wrong one. Here's the ship with the proper res 1 scanner with a few other changes.

Code: [Select]

Revenge class Battlecruiser    9000 tons     986 Crew     3197.4 BP      TCS 180  TH 515.2  EM 240
8177 km/s     Armour 1-38     Shields 8-300     Sensors 11/11/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 48
Annual Failure Rate: 648%    IFR: 9%    Maintenance Capacity 222 MSP    Max Repair 672 MSP

Magneto-plasma Drive E6.5 (16)    Power 92    Efficiency 0.65    Signature 32.2    Armour 0    Exp 12%
Fuel Capacity 200,000 Litres    Range 61.5 billion km   (87 days at full power)
Delta R300/12.5 Shields (3)   Total Fuel Cost  38 Litres per day

Twin 10cm C3 Ultraviolet Laser Mk2 Turret (2x2)    Range 120,000km     TS: 12500 km/s     Power 6-6     RM 4    ROF 5        3 3 3 3 2 2 1 1 1 1
Single 20cm C5 Ultraviolet Laser Turret (4x1)    Range 160,000km     TS: 12500 km/s     Power 10-5     RM 4    ROF 10        10 10 10 10 8 6 5 5 4 4
Fire Control S04 80-12500 H50 (2)    Max Range: 160,000 km   TS: 12500 km/s     94 88 81 75 69 62 56 50 44 38
Stellarator Fusion Reactor Technology PB-0.925 AR-0 (3)     Total Power Output 33.3    Armour 0    Exp 4%

Active Search Sensor S448-R1 (50%) (1)     GPS 448     Range 4.5m km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor S56-R70 (50%)Mk2 (1)     GPS 3920     Range 39.2m km    Resolution 70
Thermal Sensor TH1-11 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 11     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  11m km
EM Detection Sensor EM1-11 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 11     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  11m km

Eric

[Starkiller (OP)]

The long range sniper that, hopefully, pound the Precursor with missles, while the close range sluggers go in with Lazers. I'm hoping that with Lazers AND
missles for PD, that they are as defended as they can be.

Code: [Select]

Vengeance class Battlecruiser    12000 tons     1279 Crew     3612.88 BP      TCS 240  TH 676.2  EM 240
8050 km/s     Armour 1-46     Shields 8-300     Sensors 22/22/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 50
Annual Failure Rate: 1152%    IFR: 16%    Maintenance Capacity 188 MSP    Max Repair 672 MSP
Magazine 718    

Magneto-plasma Drive E6.5 (21)    Power 92    Efficiency 0.65    Signature 32.2    Armour 0    Exp 12%
Fuel Capacity 50,000 Litres    Range 11.5 billion km   (16 days at full power)
Delta R300/12.5 Shields (3)   Total Fuel Cost  38 Litres per day

Size 1 Missile Launcher (10)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 5
Size 4 Missile Launcher Mk2 (10)    Missile Size 4    Rate of Fire 20
Missile Fire Control FC28-R45 (50%) Mk2 (1)     Range 37.8m km    Resolution 45
Missile Fire Control FC140-R1 (50%) (1)     Range 4.2m km    Resolution 1
Size 4 Anti-ship Missile Mk2 (140)  Speed: 32,000 km/s   End: 19.5m    Range: 37.5m km   WH: 4    Size: 4    TH: 224 / 134 / 67
Size 1 Anti-missile Missile mk4 (158)  Speed: 33,300 km/s   End: 2.2m    Range: 4.3m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 299 / 179 / 89

Active Search Sensor S56-R70 (50%)Mk2 (1)     GPS 3920     Range 39.2m km    Resolution 70
Active Search Sensor S448-R1 (50%) (1)     GPS 448     Range 4.5m km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH2-22 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 22     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  22m km
EM Detection Sensor EM2-22 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 22     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  22m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

Eric

[Beersatron]

At first glance I noticed the low fuel and maintenance, I think you have maintenance off though? The fuel could be a problem unless you have tankers?

[Hawkeye]

If your ships are as fast as the enemies, your main weapons (i.e. the 20cm lasers) don´t need to be in turrets. You can save a lot of mass by putting them in "fixed" mounts (mounting them streight on the hull)

What did kill the survey ship? Missiles, lasers?

My own survey squad was ambushed by a single precurser DD of 5.000t that was armed with 20cm UV-lasers and my desron made short work of it with missiles from outside his laser range. That being said, it took about 40 strength 3 missile hits (note: hits, not missiles, I used about 120 missiles all in all) to take the ship out and intel told me he had armor 1, so his shields had to be quite strong (the first wave of 25 hits didn´t even slow the bugger down)

If you get a thermal reading and a speed reading, you can calculate the mass of the enemy ship (asuming he doesn´t use thermal reduction for his engines)
A thermal sig of 100 translates to engine power 100, which is enough to propel a 1000t ship at 5000km/s.
My precursor above had a thermal sig of 600 and closed at 6200km/s which gave a mass of about 4800t. This estimate was later confirmed by active scans.
     Formula seems to be Power / Speed x 50.000

If your precurser has PD, I fear your beamers will be ripped appart, while trying to close to range, given the passive defenses (or more correctly, the lack of them) on your designs
If the precurser don´t use missiles, your PD-turrets are wasted space (and, looking at the tracking/targeting speed and what the precursor missile stats are (33.000km/s, ECM 20, Warhead 18, Size 6), that I found in ruins I wouldn´t count on them to stop a whole lot of enemy missiles anyway)

Probably better to put the saved mass into shields/armor

Note: I sometimes skimp on passives on my missile ships, on the theory, that they can stand out of harms way, while pounding the enemy (not that it allways works, mind you) but my close in fighters will have rather heavy passives. What good is it to have powerfull battlecruisers, if they blow up when someone throws a pebble at them?
Thinking of jutland, the classification of your ships seems most appropriate, they will probably blow up like the BCs there

[Starkiller (OP)]

I noted the low full and added a few fuel tanks. For some reason, I always notice flaws AFTER I post, but now I'm entering the system to test these
two ships against the precursor and I'm in trouble. This is why a test mode would be good. My antiship missles are ranged at 37 million kilometres,
so is my targeting system, yet the range on the combat display was far FAR less, so I upped the FC range in the design to 200 million kilometres,
and on the display, it says the range is a mere 560 thousand kilometres! Despite the fact that all sensors and MFCs are ranged high, and my missles
as well, yet I can't fire because for some reason, the combat display insists my range is far lower! Can someone help me figure this out?

The bugger is in range and I should have time to fire at least three salvos before he gets near me. Is this advanced ECM in action. ?

Eric

[Starkiller (OP)]

Precusor Thermal sig - 1750
Precursor Top Speed - 7743 km/s
25 cm Far Ultraviolet Lasers
No nissle weapons apparently

These are just test design, while the precursor is my test subject.
The survey vessel was struck several times by the laser, no missle was ever fired. The bugger got to knife range before he finally
destroyed the ship.

Eric

[Starkiller (OP)]

Well, that was an anticlimax.

Eric

[Hawkeye]

Yes, you can salvage a wreck and you might get some tech-knowledge out of it.

Hint: Put a waypoint in the system-map-view on the wreck. I didn´t and was never able to find the wreck again, after I researched salvaging tech    )

[waresky]

When u found (same me 5 days/game ago in a xxxxx Systems on Commonw Camp) a BattleFleet of 9 Precurso range 7000-15000tons at 7000+ Km/s velocity.--. u imagine my Commander with a good Magneto 5578 or  our magneto 4500's StrikeGroup who thinking about "defence"..
Lucky are an Jump-point near us..otherwise situations goes very bad.

Now am think what PD i can use toward an enemy so fast..and this dastardly USE missiles,because ive lost a good SCL-magellan from 13Nuke hits

[SteveAlt]

Heh, I thought it was power. I guess all my ships are over reactored. Refits, here we come. I changed the resolutions on the scanners to zero
resolution mode, but should the active scanner be the same range as the missles as I did, or should the range on those be longer.

Welcome to the fun of Aurora ship design. Getting a well-balanced ship can be a challenge but it is also very satisfying when you come up with a design you like. Here is a design from my current campaign that has done well in action, although it only has eggshell armour. The trick is lining up your active sensor, fire control and missile ranges so they are relatively equal, although sometimes you will be charging toward or retreating from an enemy so the effective ranges can fluctuate a little. In this case the missile has more range than it needs but it was designed to be used by this cruiser and also a planetary defence base that has longer ranged fire control and sensors

Code: [Select]

Tribal III class Escort Cruiser    6000 tons     509 Crew     849.6 BP      TCS 120  TH 540  EM 0
4500 km/s     Armour 1-29     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 3     PPV 12
Annual Failure Rate: 96%    IFR: 1.3%    Maintenance Capacity 266 MSP    Max Repair 96 MSP
Magazine 732    

NPO Energomash Ion Drive (9)    Power 60    Efficiency 0.80    Signature 60    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 150,000 Litres    Range 56.3 billion km   (144 days at full power)

AML-15 Missile Launcher (12)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 15
AMF-960 Missile Fire Control (2)     Range 960k km    Resolution 1
SA-N-2 Gauntlet (732)  Speed: 25,400 km/s   End: 1.8m    Range: 2.7m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 194 / 116 / 58
MD960 Missile Detection Sensor (1)     GPS 96     Range 960k km    Resolution 1
With regard to resolution, an active sensor or fire control will detect/track objects of a size equal or less than the resolution out to maximum range. The size of a ship is equal to its tonnage / 50 so a 5000 ton ship is size 100. That means that an active sensor with a range of 60m kilometers and a resolution of 120 will be able to detect ships of 6000 tons or greater at 60m kilometers. Smaller ships can only be detected at shorter ranges. The formula for detecting smaller ships is:

Maximum Sensor Range x (Target Ship Size / Sensor Resolution)^2

For example, if the active sensor above (range 60m, resolution 120) was trying to detect a 4500 ton ship (size 90), the detection range would be: 60m x (90/120)^2 = 33.75m kilometers

For a 2000 ton ship the range would be 60m x (40/120)^2 = 6.67m

For a missile (which is treated as size 1), the detection range would be 60m x (1/120)^2 = 0.0042m (or about 4,200 km)

Picking the right resolution is key to good sensor design. Larger resolutions give you more range but you can miss smaller ships. For missile detection both fire control and active sensor need to be resolution zero

Steve

[SteveAlt]

My own survey squad was ambushed by a single precurser DD of 5.000t that was armed with 20cm UV-lasers and my desron made short work of it with missiles from outside his laser range. That being said, it took about 40 strength 3 missile hits (note: hits, not missiles, I used about 120 missiles all in all) to take the ship out and intel told me he had armor 1, so his shields had to be quite strong (the first wave of 25 hits didn´t even slow the bugger down

Intel will only reveal how much armour was penetrated by one hit. As the size 3 missiles have a flat pattern that wipes away 3 armour boxes from the same layer, intel will always report them as penetrating 1 level of armour. So it's possible the Precursor had better armour.

Steve

[SteveAlt]

I noted the low full and added a few fuel tanks. For some reason, I always notice flaws AFTER I post, but now I'm entering the system to test these
two ships against the precursor and I'm in trouble. This is why a test mode would be good. My antiship missles are ranged at 37 million kilometres,
so is my targeting system, yet the range on the combat display was far FAR less, so I upped the FC range in the design to 200 million kilometres,
and on the display, it says the range is a mere 560 thousand kilometres! Despite the fact that all sensors and MFCs are ranged high, and my missles
as well, yet I can't fire because for some reason, the combat display insists my range is far lower! Can someone help me figure this out?

The bugger is in range and I should have time to fire at least three salvos before he gets near me. Is this advanced ECM in action. ?

ECM will also reduce the range although it also depends on your sensor resolution. If you had an active sensor with resolution 500 and a range of 40m and it was only a 5000 ton ship, the detection range would be 1.6 million.

Steve

[sloanjh]

My own survey squad was ambushed by a single precurser DD of 5.000t that was armed with 20cm UV-lasers and my desron made short work of it with missiles from outside his laser range. That being said, it took about 40 strength 3 missile hits (note: hits, not missiles, I used about 120 missiles all in all) to take the ship out and intel told me he had armor 1, so his shields had to be quite strong (the first wave of 25 hits didn´t even slow the bugger down

Intel will only reveal how much armour was penetrated by one hit. As the size 3 missiles have a flat pattern that wipes away 3 armour boxes from the same layer, intel will always report them as penetrating 1 level of armour. So it's possible the Precursor had better armour.

Steve

Are the penetration patterns pictured anywhere in the game?  I know that a strength 13 warhead has 7 points absorbed in the 1st layer of armor, but letting precursors blow up your ships is a rather expensive way of determining this

John