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Posted by: liveware
« on: June 17, 2020, 05:53:02 PM »

Quote from: TheTalkingMeowth on June 17, 2020, 05:24:16 PM
It's a name collision.  MSP refers to both Maintenance Supply Points and Missile Size Points.

Cargo Shuttles transfer maintenance supplies, ordnance transfer systems transfer missiles.  The MSP/hr rating is the rate at which they can transfer missiles.

Of course...

Oh well, I've wasted some resources on useless ordnance transfer systems it seems. They will need to be removed for the next design iteration.
Posted by: TheTalkingMeowth
« on: June 17, 2020, 05:24:16 PM »

It's a name collision.  MSP refers to both Maintenance Supply Points and Missile Size Points.

Cargo Shuttles transfer maintenance supplies, ordnance transfer systems transfer missiles.  The MSP/hr rating is the rate at which they can transfer missiles.
Posted by: liveware
« on: June 17, 2020, 04:48:45 PM »

Quote from: Droll on June 17, 2020, 01:24:25 PM
Quote from: liveware on June 16, 2020, 03:39:39 PM
For extrasolar colonization efforts, I've since developed the below ship:

Code: [Select]
Cincinatti class Colony Tender      101,000 tons       453 Crew       2,742.3 BP       TCS 2,020    TH 5,000    EM 0
2475 km/s    JR 2-25(C)      Armour 1-193       Shields 0-0       HTK 68      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 0
MSP 10,416    Max Repair 1250 MSP
Cargo 25,000    Cryogenic Berths 20,000    Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 1    Tractor Beam     
Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months   
Terraformer: 1 modules producing 0.0008 atm per annum

Guild JC101K Commercial Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 101000 tons    Distance 25k km     Squadron Size 2

Guild Commercial Magnetic Fusion Drive  EP5000.00 (1)    Power 5000    Fuel Use 1.12%    Signature 5000    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 10,001,000 Litres    Range 1,594 billion km (7454 days at full power)
Refuelling Capability: 50,000 litres per hour     Complete Refuel 200 hours

Ordnance Transfer Rate: 40 MSP per hour
Chaimberlin-Sherman Active Search Sensor AS11-R1 (20%) (1)     GPS 28     Range 11.2m km    MCR 1m km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes

This ship reduces my reliance on several other ship classes and dramatically reduces my need to micromanage multiple fleets. With this one ship class, I can completely colonize a new system without building any other commercial ships (except fuel harvesters, which remain a separate dedicated class).

Wait why does it have an ordnance transfer system if it doesn't have any form of munitions storage.
Also what type of ship is this thing intended to refuel? IMO with the refueling system you'd be better off swapping the terraformer for a sorium harvester. Terraforming modules are useless individually so you need tons of ships/stations to make it go at any reasonable speed. Instead of fuel harvesters, use these and then build swarms of terraformers/terraforming stations.

Terraformer fleets aren't very micro intensive anyways, they stand over planets for most of their service life and move on once they are done. They also tend to be in massive fleets which means that having lots of them doesn't proportionally increase the necessary micro.

I thought an ordnance transfer system is necessary to transfer maintenance supplies to other ships? Hence the MSP per hour rating?

Really what I was trying to accomplish with this design was putting to use all of my otherwise idle tug and cargo transports. Once I get a colony up and running I tend to have an abundance of useless ships laying around. At least if they have terraforming modules they can be put to use terraforming the next colony. Also I now don't need to retool my shipyards 5x times to develop a new cargo ship, terraformer, colony ship, etc...

The refueling system is for rescuing ships that I have accidentally sent on suicide missions that run out of fuel before they get back to a colony. This happens rarely but does happen from time to time.
Posted by: Droll
« on: June 17, 2020, 01:24:25 PM »

Quote from: liveware on June 16, 2020, 03:39:39 PM
For extrasolar colonization efforts, I've since developed the below ship:

Code: [Select]
Cincinatti class Colony Tender      101,000 tons       453 Crew       2,742.3 BP       TCS 2,020    TH 5,000    EM 0
2475 km/s    JR 2-25(C)      Armour 1-193       Shields 0-0       HTK 68      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 0
MSP 10,416    Max Repair 1250 MSP
Cargo 25,000    Cryogenic Berths 20,000    Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 1    Tractor Beam     
Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months   
Terraformer: 1 modules producing 0.0008 atm per annum

Guild JC101K Commercial Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 101000 tons    Distance 25k km     Squadron Size 2

Guild Commercial Magnetic Fusion Drive  EP5000.00 (1)    Power 5000    Fuel Use 1.12%    Signature 5000    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 10,001,000 Litres    Range 1,594 billion km (7454 days at full power)
Refuelling Capability: 50,000 litres per hour     Complete Refuel 200 hours

Ordnance Transfer Rate: 40 MSP per hour
Chaimberlin-Sherman Active Search Sensor AS11-R1 (20%) (1)     GPS 28     Range 11.2m km    MCR 1m km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes

This ship reduces my reliance on several other ship classes and dramatically reduces my need to micromanage multiple fleets. With this one ship class, I can completely colonize a new system without building any other commercial ships (except fuel harvesters, which remain a separate dedicated class).

Wait why does it have an ordnance transfer system if it doesn't have any form of munitions storage.
Also what type of ship is this thing intended to refuel? IMO with the refueling system you'd be better off swapping the terraformer for a sorium harvester. Terraforming modules are useless individually so you need tons of ships/stations to make it go at any reasonable speed. Instead of fuel harvesters, use these and then build swarms of terraformers/terraforming stations.

Terraformer fleets aren't very micro intensive anyways, they stand over planets for most of their service life and move on once they are done. They also tend to be in massive fleets which means that having lots of them doesn't proportionally increase the necessary micro.
Posted by: Ri0Rdian
« on: June 17, 2020, 12:08:47 PM »

Quote from: Droll on June 16, 2020, 03:29:21 PM
Quote from: QuakeIV on June 13, 2020, 11:18:47 AM
I haven't had any real issue moving multi-hundred-million ton habitats.  It will take a few years to move them (i remember building one that was making 57 km/s with a 100kt civilian tug) but a few years is nothing, it just makes it into a project that you have to wait a short while for its completion.

I really hate having to build massive tugs, it just doesn't feel right - what I wish was the ability to have multiple tugs tug the tuggee simultaneously so I could instead built more smaller tugs.

Yes, shame we cannot have multiple tugs that tug one huge target, as is done in real life too. Something like a command where a tug join another tug and from then on they act as one until you separate them again. It would probably require too much work that could be better spent elsewhere.

Also no offence, but that one module is practically useless if you do not have tens of such ships you are not terraforming anything in any given playthrough (well...maybe if you get a superclose to ideal planet, then you just might do it in a few decades).

Simple mixed cargo/colony would be much better idea imo.
Posted by: liveware
« on: June 16, 2020, 03:39:39 PM »

For extrasolar colonization efforts, I've since developed the below ship:

Code: [Select]
Cincinatti class Colony Tender      101,000 tons       453 Crew       2,742.3 BP       TCS 2,020    TH 5,000    EM 0
2475 km/s    JR 2-25(C)      Armour 1-193       Shields 0-0       HTK 68      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 0
MSP 10,416    Max Repair 1250 MSP
Cargo 25,000    Cryogenic Berths 20,000    Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 1    Tractor Beam     
Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months   
Terraformer: 1 modules producing 0.0008 atm per annum

Guild JC101K Commercial Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 101000 tons    Distance 25k km     Squadron Size 2

Guild Commercial Magnetic Fusion Drive  EP5000.00 (1)    Power 5000    Fuel Use 1.12%    Signature 5000    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 10,001,000 Litres    Range 1,594 billion km (7454 days at full power)
Refuelling Capability: 50,000 litres per hour     Complete Refuel 200 hours

Ordnance Transfer Rate: 40 MSP per hour
Chaimberlin-Sherman Active Search Sensor AS11-R1 (20%) (1)     GPS 28     Range 11.2m km    MCR 1m km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes

This ship reduces my reliance on several other ship classes and dramatically reduces my need to micromanage multiple fleets. With this one ship class, I can completely colonize a new system without building any other commercial ships (except fuel harvesters, which remain a separate dedicated class).
Posted by: Droll
« on: June 16, 2020, 03:29:21 PM »

Quote from: QuakeIV on June 13, 2020, 11:18:47 AM
I haven't had any real issue moving multi-hundred-million ton habitats.  It will take a few years to move them (i remember building one that was making 57 km/s with a 100kt civilian tug) but a few years is nothing, it just makes it into a project that you have to wait a short while for its completion.

I really hate having to build massive tugs, it just doesn't feel right - what I wish was the ability to have multiple tugs tug the tuggee simultaneously so I could instead built more smaller tugs.
Posted by: skoormit
« on: June 16, 2020, 03:01:39 PM »

Quote from: Zap0 on June 13, 2020, 10:23:29 AM
There also seems to be a bug in 1.11 which increases fuel consumption as much as tug speed is reduced.

Fuel consumption for the tug, while moving under max power, is constant over time. The engines consume some number of liters per hour.
If speed is reduced because it is tugging something, fuel consumption over distance increases proportionally.
That's not a bug. It was bugged in VB, fixed for C#.
Posted by: QuakeIV
« on: June 13, 2020, 11:18:47 AM »

I haven't had any real issue moving multi-hundred-million ton habitats.  It will take a few years to move them (i remember building one that was making 57 km/s with a 100kt civilian tug) but a few years is nothing, it just makes it into a project that you have to wait a short while for its completion.
Posted by: SpikeTheHobbitMage
« on: June 13, 2020, 10:46:10 AM »

Quote from: Zap0 on June 13, 2020, 10:23:29 AM
Quote from: liveware on June 12, 2020, 05:46:15 PM
Eh... I'm not in a hurry and not terribly resource constrained.

I also like that the station can carry some workers around with it.

Mind you that terraforming modules on ships don't require workers on the colony (or the ships themselves) to operate. Same goes for mining modules or fuel harvesters.

I like big stations, but the issue I tend to have is building tugs big enough to move them within my lifetime/fast enough to catch up to the inner planets. There also seems to be a bug in 1.11 which increases fuel consumption as much as tug speed is reduced.
Is fuel consumption actually increasing or is it just that the range is reduced due to moving more weight?
Posted by: Zap0
« on: June 13, 2020, 10:23:29 AM »

Quote from: liveware on June 12, 2020, 05:46:15 PM
Eh... I'm not in a hurry and not terribly resource constrained.

I also like that the station can carry some workers around with it.

Mind you that terraforming modules on ships don't require workers on the colony (or the ships themselves) to operate. Same goes for mining modules or fuel harvesters.

I like big stations, but the issue I tend to have is building tugs big enough to move them within my lifetime/fast enough to catch up to the inner planets. There also seems to be a bug in 1.11 which increases fuel consumption as much as tug speed is reduced.
Posted by: Ri0Rdian
« on: June 12, 2020, 06:45:04 PM »

Quote from: SpikeTheHobbitMage on June 12, 2020, 05:54:01 PM
Quote from: Ri0Rdian on June 12, 2020, 05:47:51 PM
I use terraformer stations at 2.5mt, usually two. Even both at once, going for a venusian world is not worth it because it takes too long. You would want at least 1.5atm per annum and it would still take a ton of time.

Something like 20-30mt might do the job, but even I am not (yet) crazy enough to try that.
The question is "can you can afford to put 1k+ terraforming modules on a planet for a century?"  I have yet to be able to answer "yes".  Crazy has nothing to do with it or I'd have done it already.  :)

Yeah, it is always more about how much it costs than if you can do it. It is never worth doing in, occasionally might be fun but that is about it.
Posted by: liveware
« on: June 12, 2020, 05:55:00 PM »

I play with a research malus so my games are considerably slower than normal... more along the lines of one of the Civilizations game.
Posted by: SpikeTheHobbitMage
« on: June 12, 2020, 05:54:01 PM »

Quote from: Ri0Rdian on June 12, 2020, 05:47:51 PM
I use terraformer stations at 2.5mt, usually two. Even both at once, going for a venusian world is not worth it because it takes too long. You would want at least 1.5atm per annum and it would still take a ton of time.

Something like 20-30mt might do the job, but even I am not (yet) crazy enough to try that.
The question is "can you can afford to put 1k+ terraforming modules on a planet for a century?"  I have yet to be able to answer "yes".  Crazy has nothing to do with it or I'd have done it already.  :)
Posted by: Ri0Rdian
« on: June 12, 2020, 05:47:51 PM »

I use terraformer stations at 2.5mt, usually two. Even both at once, going for a venusian world is not worth it because it takes too long. You would want at least 1.5atm per annum and it would still take a ton of time.

Something like 20-30mt might do the job, but even I am not (yet) crazy enough to try that.