Author Topic: Update on Progress  (Read 6516 times)

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Offline hubgbf

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2018, 05:09:35 AM »
Hi,

What about implementing for each NPR 2-3 standard response ?

Example, a beam oriented NPR is facing a player or NPR with a huge missile load, the standard response will be to have a higher part of its fleet being beam anti-missile ship.
A beam oriented NPR facing longer ranged beam oriented PNR will research faster ship or longer ranged beam ship (per design, tech , or spinal weapon).

It will offer a challenge to a player without offering an opportunity windows while switching tech, and preserve the diversity of opponent.

The communauty will certainly be able to offer help to define such response on the spoiler forum.

best Regards
 

Offline the obelisk

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2018, 10:49:20 AM »
Kind of in line with what I posted earlier, I feel like there's a lot of ways you could give the NPRs ability to adapt without changing their thematic feeling.  I've been reading a bit about stuff like this for a multi-faction game I'm trying to start up, and I think that there's definitely plenty of subtle aspects to how the fleet uses its ships.  For example, if I understand correctly, during WW2, Japan had several warships with carrier capacity, which they used to hold planes for recon purposes, whereas the USA didn't really do that, and instead focused pretty much entirely on their aircraft carriers for carrying purposes.  Also, unless I'm mistaken, the IJN tended to do its recon with fighter planes, while the USN tended to do its recon with dive bombers.

Differences like these, for example, seem like they'd be important enough to matter (and, I'm under the impression that the IJN using battleship and cruiser based aircraft was itself an attempt to adapt to the situation, after losing carriers), but subtle enough that it wouldn't erase the thematic/unique feeling of the NPR making the change.

EDIT: If this discussion goes on any further we should probably split off to a new thread.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2018, 11:25:59 AM by the obelisk »
 

Offline Barkhorn

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2018, 11:19:00 AM »
I don't actually have a problem with NPR's changing their themes.  Navy's have occasionally changed their design doctrines drastically in the past, why would alien navies not do this too?

Obviously there should be some inertia, but I don't think it's realistic or fun for the doctrines to be set in stone.
 

Offline Icecoon

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2018, 01:58:45 PM »
Well, I can't wait for the release or at least the start of the new campaign by Steve. Until that time I have one more campaign to finish. :)
If it's stupid but it works, it isn't stupid.


If fire fighters fight fire and crime fighters fight crime, what do freedom fighters fight?
 

Online Steve Walmsley

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2018, 12:44:49 PM »
All good comments - I won't make any dramatic changes for NPR themes - more adjustments to the existing theme if required. And that is a long way off in any event.

Most pressing problem at the moment is actually finding time to program. A combination of great weather, the Isle of Man TT (just finished) and a very addictive book series is continuing to distract. And I am going on vacation for a week next week. I will get back to it soon though.

BTW the book series is probably interesting for anyone who enjoys the world-building aspect of Aurora. Someone is sent to the 1980s to change history and avoid several disasters in the present day. The series is about his efforts over several decades (and very detailed).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Magestic-Trilogy-espionage-alternate-history-ebook/dp/B01MU8Y9GV/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
 

Offline TheDeadlyShoe

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2018, 12:56:18 PM »
Good stuff!  Looking forward to themed games.  Battlestar fights with NPCs? Yes please!


 

Offline Icecoon

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2018, 03:10:07 AM »
Take your time Steve. I know from experience, that summer is the worst season to program or to work on anything. So much distraction.   :)
Maybe gather some ideas for your test campaign from those books.  ;D
If it's stupid but it works, it isn't stupid.


If fire fighters fight fire and crime fighters fight crime, what do freedom fighters fight?
 

Offline MarcAFK

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2018, 09:04:32 AM »
I don't have high hopes for that book, let us know how it turns out though.
" Why is this godforsaken hellhole worth dying for? "
". . .  We know nothing about them, their language, their history or what they look like.  But we can assume this.  They stand for everything we don't stand for.  Also they told me you guys look like dorks. "
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Online Steve Walmsley

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2018, 06:22:46 AM »
I know I haven't published many updates lately (due to reasons given above plus World Cup now as well) :). However, I have been making some progress with the AI.

NPRs assess all their systems every construction phase (Capital, Core, Primary, Secondary, Claimed, Neutral, No Value) using an 'Empire AI'. This takes into account existing populations and mining sites (with greater size being higher value), logistics installations (more = high value), potential mining sites, potential colony sites (with greater potential = higher value for mining/colony sites) and proximity to high value systems (so an NPR will judge a system to have value because it provides a defensive buffer to another system). The value of mining sites is also affected by whatever minerals are in short supply within the empire.

Those 'system values' will used for a wide variety of decision-making. For example, every construction phase (or more often during war) the NPR will review the strategic deployment of its major fleet units and patrol squadrons, based on the value of the systems that need protection. Construction ships and terraformers will take account of those values (and any recent combat) when determining the route to their destination or where to conduct tasks (no more construction ships committing suicide I hope). This will also restrict those NPRs who stabilise jump points to within their own territory (or close to it - depending on the NPR). All the above is already coded. Once I get around to diplomacy, the NPR will make decisions in terms of player interaction that take into account the systems involved (more likely to fight if system is higher level - may negotiate over lower level systems).

I plan to have most strategic movement handled at the Empire AI level and fleet AIs will generally not move out of their assigned systems without permission from the higher level AI.  Fleet AIs calculate their own combat status (taking into account damage and magazine loadouts, etc.) and inform the Empire AI so it can take account of that when making deployment decisions. For example, if a fleet runs low on ammo in a key system, the Empire AI will dispatch another fleet if one is available (or divert one from a lower priority system). There will also be system-level AIs that will coordinate fleet movements when required, such as conflict in the system.

The population AIs are also well-underway and can make decisions on what to build in factories or shipyards. Ordnance for example is constructed based on whatever is needed by existing fleets, taking into account current magazine loads and Empire-wide stockpiles. NPRs have to tool shipyards in C# Aurora, so the Population AI makes that decision, taking into account what is required. The Pop AI also makes decisions on shipyard upgrades or adding slipways. It will also convert conventional factories.

As you imagine, this is a lot of work, not to mention trying to hold the overall picture in my head while coding (I never bother with design documentation beyond a few high-level to-do lists, although I comment code a LOT), so don't view the lack of updates as lack of progress. In fact, my first 'test game' may well be NPR-only as I see how they handle the new way of doing things.

I'll give more updates as I make more progress.
 

Offline Shuul

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2018, 09:57:40 AM »
I wonder how much testing must go into this for it to work correctly :)
But this stats to sound as a dream-game now, that's the only game ill be playing after its release :)
 

Online Steve Walmsley

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2018, 10:36:41 AM »
I wonder how much testing must go into this for it to work correctly :)
But this stats to sound as a dream-game now, that's the only game ill be playing after its release :)

Yes, lots of testing needed :)

Now working on how the AI decides what the most important jump points are to defend within its territory (taking into account location of known hostile contacts and the value of its own systems) and how it deploys any dedicated jump point defence forces accordingly.
 
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Offline sloanjh

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2018, 01:42:45 PM »
I wonder how much testing must go into this for it to work correctly :)
But this stats to sound as a dream-game now, that's the only game ill be playing after its release :)

Yes, lots of testing needed :)

Now working on how the AI decides what the most important jump points are to defend within its territory (taking into account location of known hostile contacts and the value of its own systems) and how it deploys any dedicated jump point defence forces accordingly.

Hi Steve,

  I don't remember if this has come up recently, but how amenable is the design to giving a player the ability to have AI system "agents" (e.g. planetary governor, fleet commander, sector governor, ...)?  It would be cool to be able to decide the level of abstraction one wants to work at and delegate the rest to AI....

  If you were to go down that road, you might think about putting "personality" or "trait" (such as aggressiveness, paranoia, and/or xenophobia/philia) hooks into the decision making process that would give some variation into the factors that weigh into the prioritization.

  Not advocating putting it all into the first version, just suggesting you keep it in the back of your mind when coding....

Thanks,
John
 

Online Steve Walmsley

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2018, 02:05:23 PM »
I wonder how much testing must go into this for it to work correctly :)
But this stats to sound as a dream-game now, that's the only game ill be playing after its release :)

Yes, lots of testing needed :)

Now working on how the AI decides what the most important jump points are to defend within its territory (taking into account location of known hostile contacts and the value of its own systems) and how it deploys any dedicated jump point defence forces accordingly.

Hi Steve,

  I don't remember if this has come up recently, but how amenable is the design to giving a player the ability to have AI system "agents" (e.g. planetary governor, fleet commander, sector governor, ...)?  It would be cool to be able to decide the level of abstraction one wants to work at and delegate the rest to AI....

  If you were to go down that road, you might think about putting "personality" or "trait" (such as aggressiveness, paranoia, and/or xenophobia/philia) hooks into the decision making process that would give some variation into the factors that weigh into the prioritization.

  Not advocating putting it all into the first version, just suggesting you keep it in the back of your mind when coding....

Thanks,
John

At the moment, the code relies on certain things being in place (like operational groups with certain types of ships and abilities), so the player would have to replicate that in order to have the AI run their fleets. It may be possible to have some form of AI planetary governor for players, but for fleet operations the player would have to restrict himself in order to avoid the AI being confused when something wasn't in the right format or didn't have the necessary capabilities. The AI should be able to do more in C# Aurora, but it still won't have the total flexibility of a human.
 

Offline Impassive

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2018, 05:30:48 AM »
Sounding like you make alot of progress on the AI, what is left for the AI? Man I read that post like 5 times and it was better every loop :) #Skynet
 

Offline Caplin

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Re: Update on Progress
« Reply #44 on: July 10, 2018, 08:25:16 PM »
Reading stuff like this is starting to get me excited about the game again. I tend to go through phases where I get deeply into it for a few months, and then get distracted, but I think I might be getting ready to come back. Please keep us posted.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 11:23:26 PM by Caplin »
 

 

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