Author Topic: Fixed the slowdowns, atleast 70% faster  (Read 3154 times)

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Offline MJOne

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Fixed the slowdowns, atleast 70% faster
« on: January 07, 2019, 05:17:07 AM »
Hi!

Thank you Steve for one of the best games ever made.     You are a true genius!
I know this is a sensitive matter, and I WILL NEVER spread the secret passwords, I swear on my mother's life.     Honest to God.   

But I have tracked down the main reason why the game bogs down after 70 years or so.     The Commercial Shipping(+200 ships).   
I managed to edit the Database so that all the new Shipping Lines start with negative wealth, hence they will never build any ships.   
So you have to haul all the goods yourself, just to be clear.   

I would like to share that Database here, but only if you Steve, would permit it.   
I turned 40 second 5-day turns(without any NPR's yet), into 5 seconds.  Much better!

The same goes for the NPR's, they have negative values, I checked it.   
Though I would recommend that you play without a starting NPR, and slowly clean them up as they generates while you are exploring.   

I also plan to edit the Beam Weapons and Beam FC's to have alot more range.   
Is it okay Steve if I share the edited Database, but still password protected with your original password that I will never ever in my whole life divulge to anyone.     I promise.   

Have a nice day everyone!
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 10:26:02 AM by MJOne »
 

Offline tobijon

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Re: Fixed the slowdowns, atleast 70% faster
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2019, 05:47:16 AM »
of course we are waiting for the new C# version for the real speedup
 

Offline King-Salomon

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Re: Fixed the slowdowns, atleast 70% faster
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2019, 06:08:00 AM »
as good as the intention is... I am thinking this is highly contraproductive...

http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=10217.0
 

Offline MJOne

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Re: Fixed the slowdowns, atleast 70% faster
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2019, 06:57:40 AM »
I am well aware of Aurora 4x C# version and can’t wait to play it.     
I have been waiting for years!

But how long until it’s released?
Summer would be optimistic right?

So I got to year 78 in one week.   
10 major colonies(a capital in each system + logistics), 50 lesser colonies.    (3 billion pops) and 1.    5 million tons of wartime navy + 300 fighters + 150 FACS.   
5 million tons of ”civilian” ships.   
5 millions tons of space stations.   
4000 construction factories.   
120 research centers.   
Etc.    .    .    etc.    .    .   

Regular TN 500 mil start Sol.   

I just thought someone would like it before the master-piece comes out

King-Salomon, it wouldn't change anything.  The database would still be protected with Steves original password.  You would be in an equal position.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 07:07:38 AM by MJOne »
 

Offline Rich.h

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Re: Fixed the slowdowns, atleast 70% faster
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2019, 04:52:06 AM »
While it would seem to fix turn slowdowns I shudder at the horror of the micromanegment this must entail. I agree that at later stages the slowdowns can become horrible, but in truth they are never something that causes massive issues. Being a non realtime game means you can have Aurora running it's turn in the background while doing something else for a few minutes. I would argue the real issues come with gertting spammed with messages in 5 sec intervals (aka all your NPR combats and the like). Having to rely 100% on comercial shipping would only add to that problem with getting more time stops for the latest bout of frieghters/colony that have finished their set of orders.
 

Offline MJOne

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Re: Fixed the slowdowns, atleast 70% faster
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2019, 11:08:28 AM »
Hi Rich.  h  :)

No not really.   It depends how you setup your logistics, I tend to make my colonies semi-autonomous. 
A capital colony that sucks in all the resource in that system.   It keeps a buffer of minerals to keep itself going 1 year or so in isolation.   
The rest goes to Earth through logistics using a Mineral Loading colony in a system.   Often an empty asteroid. 

Then I have 5-10 mass drivers shooting minerals to that colony.   This mineral loading colony have 1 mass driver shooting back to the capital colony.   It also has no reserve level of minerals.   Meaning, the main capital colony will send more to that mineral loading colony more than it sends back to the capital colony.   Hence a build-up occurs. 

I then have small freighters(10kt) on repeating orders collecting the minerals from that mineral loading station and transporting it back to Earth. 

For all the other installations I transfer them in bulk on large freighters(100kt-400kt). 
Then I have a few freighters for intra-system transportation stationed at every capital colony. 

That way you do not need to micro-manage alot.   There is no use in having alot of saturated colonies that can easily be merged into one system capital colony, that can take care of everything that system needs. 

It all depends on your planning and naming scheme. 

But I do recognize that you need alittle more micro-managment, but not alot. 
You do basically the same when setting up civilian contracts.   From Point A to Point B, X amounts. 

It also depends on what you value. 
The speed gain is MUCH more worth than what you lose in fiddling.   I can play this alot longer before it gets unbearable.  But to be frank, I have a 4000-5000 erous computer that is one year old.  But cutting 40-60 seconds 5 day turns into 5 second five day turns, is GREAT.

This is just an option I presented to those who was interested in not having to end their campaign because of slow downs.   BUT ONLY IF STEVE AGREES, see my first post. 

Do not PM me or anything, you will never get the modded database before STEVE gives it a green light. 
It will still be under the same protection as the original so you won't be able to change anything. 

Honestly, with all do respect Sir, it seems that you are just trying to find any argument against this that feels abit on the weak side.   But I do respect your argument. 
The thing that makes Aurora 4x great is the micro-managment and freedom it gives the player. 
It is by far the best game in that aspect.   Nothing comes close.   For a creative guy like me it is a true blessing. 

Anyways, have a nice one  :)
« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 11:12:36 AM by MJOne »
 

Offline MarcAFK

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Re: Fixed the slowdowns, atleast 70% faster
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2019, 11:36:14 PM »
Bankrupting the civilians is a good solution to endgame lag, but what about the NPRs? They still build hundreds of hsits. I don't know if they use similar mechanics in regards to hipping lines, do they even have 'civilians"?
" Why is this godforsaken hellhole worth dying for? "
". . .  We know nothing about them, their language, their history or what they look like.  But we can assume this.  They stand for everything we don't stand for.  Also they told me you guys look like dorks. "
"Stop exploding, you cowards.  "
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: Fixed the slowdowns, atleast 70% faster
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2019, 03:12:37 AM »
Bankrupting the civilians is a good solution to endgame lag, but what about the NPRs? They still build hundreds of hsits. I don't know if they use similar mechanics in regards to hipping lines, do they even have 'civilians"?

For freighters and colony ships, they only have civilians. There didn't seem to be any point in having two types of AI for NPR colony ships and civilians, so they are all created in shipping lines. This is true for C# too.
 

Offline Tree

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Re: Fixed the slowdowns, atleast 70% faster
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2019, 05:26:41 AM »
Bankrupting the civilians is a good solution to endgame lag, but what about the NPRs? They still build hundreds of hsits. I don't know if they use similar mechanics in regards to hipping lines, do they even have 'civilians"?

For freighters and colony ships, they only have civilians. There didn't seem to be any point in having two types of AI for NPR colony ships and civilians, so they are all created in shipping lines. This is true for C# too.
Doesn't that mean NPRs can't carry minerals from a system to another, or is that abstracted for them?
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: Fixed the slowdowns, atleast 70% faster
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2019, 06:38:51 AM »
Bankrupting the civilians is a good solution to endgame lag, but what about the NPRs? They still build hundreds of hsits. I don't know if they use similar mechanics in regards to hipping lines, do they even have 'civilians"?

For freighters and colony ships, they only have civilians. There didn't seem to be any point in having two types of AI for NPR colony ships and civilians, so they are all created in shipping lines. This is true for C# too.
Doesn't that mean NPRs can't carry minerals from a system to another, or is that abstracted for them?

Mineral movement is automatic, although it does mean they won't create colonies or move automated mines.
 

Offline Barkhorn

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Re: Fixed the slowdowns, atleast 70% faster
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2019, 04:27:49 PM »
Would it be possible for at least the player's shipping lines to move minerals?

Because as it stands now, getting interstellar mineral shipments set up and running smoothly is pretty finnicky.  If the stockpile on the mining world ever runs completely out, the cargo loading will fail and break all your orders, meaning you have to re-do them.  It'd be more realistic with civilian shipping lines doing all the mineral transport too.  The US military might use lots of rare earth elements, but they rely on civilian shipping to import them all.
 

Offline Zincat

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Re: Fixed the slowdowns, atleast 70% faster
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2019, 08:55:28 AM »
In my opinion, as it stands now the real issue with running without civilian shippings is the lack of fuel. Sure, you can build cargo ships, colony ships and such. But the fuel cost will be horrendous.

Especially in the early tech levels, you will also have problems having enough refineries. So as it stands now I consider a playthrough witout civilian shippings to be very slow and painful XD It can be done, of course. Just, fuel will be your number one concern for a long time.
 

Offline MJOne

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Re: Fixed the slowdowns, atleast 70% faster
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2019, 03:50:22 PM »
Hi Zincat

I have never had any fuel issues.     Ever in Aurora.     
And I have played this for years.   
There is more than plenty of fuel.   

My current campaign is 90 years in, no civ shipping.   
I use Excel alot to keep track of every detail in my campaign. 

From what experience ingame without civilian shipping have you reached that conclusion?
I normally have 1-2 1500kt harvester bases and 40-50 fuel harvester ships 100kt each.   
I make much more than I can ever get rid off.     

How do you setup your fuel infrastructure?
What techs do you pick in the beginning?
How much do you value Sorium?

If you do everything systematic and take it step by step you will avoid almost every shortage, even the common duranium shortage.

Remember that you need to get your economy going before building large fleets.   
Its the bread and butter of every civilization.   
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 03:57:19 PM by MJOne »
 

Offline Jorgen_CAB

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Re: Fixed the slowdowns, atleast 70% faster
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2019, 04:39:04 PM »
Hi Zincat

I have never had any fuel issues.     Ever in Aurora.     
And I have played this for years.   
There is more than plenty of fuel.   

My current campaign is 90 years in, no civ shipping.   
I use Excel alot to keep track of every detail in my campaign. 

From what experience ingame without civilian shipping have you reached that conclusion?
I normally have 1-2 1500kt harvester bases and 40-50 fuel harvester ships 100kt each.   
I make much more than I can ever get rid off.     

How do you setup your fuel infrastructure?
What techs do you pick in the beginning?
How much do you value Sorium?

If you do everything systematic and take it step by step you will avoid almost every shortage, even the common duranium shortage.

Remember that you need to get your economy going before building large fleets.   
Its the bread and butter of every civilization.   

I agree that fuel or pretty much any resource is not a problem as long as there are no external preasures in the beginning. Note that not every campaign run like that and if you are fighting for resources, are in a technology and military contest pretty much from the start of the game things come in a different light.

I always find that resources and fuel in particular is a constraint... military ships always contend with as much speed as possible to keep up with the oposition, thus can and will push the limits of fuel resources.

If I start an isolated Earth start I can easily wait with exploration for a long time until I'm ready if I game the system... if I role play I never do that and would explore like crazy and very soon run into hostile strong oposition of some kind. Often something with higher technology than me, I give NPRs huge bonuses so they are a threat.

But most of the time I run multiple faction games.... these are high stakes campaigns from day one.

Anyway.... removing civilians can be an option... but I think it breaks NPRs and make them even less of a challenge. I will just wait for C# before I start a new campaign... :)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 04:43:53 PM by Jorgen_CAB »
 

Offline Zincat

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Re: Fixed the slowdowns, atleast 70% faster
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2019, 05:42:47 PM »
Hi Zincat

I have never had any fuel issues.     Ever in Aurora.     
And I have played this for years.   
There is more than plenty of fuel.   

My current campaign is 90 years in, no civ shipping.   
I use Excel alot to keep track of every detail in my campaign. 

From what experience ingame without civilian shipping have you reached that conclusion?
I normally have 1-2 1500kt harvester bases and 40-50 fuel harvester ships 100kt each.   
I make much more than I can ever get rid off.     

How do you setup your fuel infrastructure?
What techs do you pick in the beginning?
How much do you value Sorium?

If you do everything systematic and take it step by step you will avoid almost every shortage, even the common duranium shortage.

Remember that you need to get your economy going before building large fleets.   
Its the bread and butter of every civilization.   

I should put things in context, my bad. I always play conventional start, with at least 2 NPR races and all spoilers active. I understand that this is not how most people play.

Jorgen_CAB hit the nail on the head, at least with how I play.
In this scenario I feel that I simply cannot take it easy. I don't have time to take it slowly. Every obstacle becomes a significant problem, as I am far, far behind in tech and everything else from the very beginning.

By the time I start expanding, the NPRs have explored many systems. As I don't have any fleet whatsoever at the start, any spoiler I encounter is a roadblock for quite some time.

It's not that there's not enough sorium around. The problem is that extracting and refining that is a significant investment in a situation when even building geosurvey ships feel tough. As for harvesters, while they are efficient, they're not easy to set up when you start with nothing at all.

In such a situation, having the civilians doing the hauling / moving colonists etc is a really big deal. And I feel that having the fuel required is more a problem than building the ships to haul / move colonists, because a fuel shortage can creep up to you and the resource investment is quite big.

Anyway, that's just how I play. I imagine all these things are less a concern with a normal start. But I simply can't play any other way. It HAS to be a conventional start  ;D
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 05:53:00 PM by Zincat »
 

 

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