New system scout carrier and fighters

[bankshot (OP)]

When the alien ruins on Gilese 526 were discovered further exploration was halted until a suitable defense fleet was ready.  As that fleet is now under construction attention has turned to developing a proper protocol for ensuring there are no hostiles present before sending in the survey fleet.  It was decided that a scout should be sent to give the system a quick once-over first, hopefully without alerting potentially hostile aliens to our presence while gathering intel about them.  First through the jump point will be the Cato class scout carrier:

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Cato class Scout Carrier    2,400 tons     45 Crew     237 BP      TCS 48  TH 28  EM 0
1666 km/s    JR 1-50     Armour 1-15     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
Maint Life 4.78 Years     MSP 62    AFR 46%    IFR 0.6%    1YR 4    5YR 67    Max Repair 17.5 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Flight Crew Berths 23   
Hangar Deck Capacity 1000 tons     

J2400(1-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 2400 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 1
40 EP 5HS 50% Stealth MP Drive (2)    Power 40    Fuel Use 8.4%    Signature 14    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 80,000 Litres    Range 71.4 billion km   (496 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Once it has recovered from jump shock it will launch a pair of Clouseau class scouts and hold station at the jump point to receive their findings

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Clouseau class Scout Fighter    468 tons     11 Crew     112.84 BP      TCS 9.35  TH 17.85  EM 0
5454 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 11/18/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0.75
Maint Life 6.98 Years     MSP 30    AFR 8%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 1    5YR 16    Max Repair 18 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Spare Berths 0   

25.6 EP 2HS 80% stealth MP Drive (2)    Power 25.6    Fuel Use 28.05%    Signature 8.96    Exp 8%
Fuel Capacity 50,000 Litres    Range 68.6 billion km   (145 days at full power)

FTR Gauss Cannon R3-12.5 (1x4)    Range 30,000km     TS: 5454 km/s     Accuracy Modifier 12.5%     RM 3    ROF 5        1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S00.2 40-2500 (FTR) (1)    Max Range: 80,000 km   TS: 10000 km/s     88 75 62 50 38 25 12 0 0 0

FTR Active Search MR2-R20 (1)     GPS 72     Range 2.9m km    Resolution 20
Thermal Sensor TH1-11 (1)     Sensitivity 11     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  11m km
EM Sensor EM1-18 (1)     Sensitivity 18     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  18m km

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

The fighters mount a light Gauss Cannon to allow them to harass unescorted shipping as a distraction.  Would it make more sense to ditch the cannon and mount a double size thermal sensor?  Both designs mount 35% reduced signature drives, as I currently consider further signature reduction a lower priority than pushing for fusion drives and Laminate armor.

[Garfunkel]

From efficiency standpoint, I'd ditch the GC and have a bigger TH sensor instead.

But from RP standpoint, the GC gives it a lot of flavour and it'll be glorious if they get to use them!

[bankshot (OP)]

The other thing I considered was making them self-jump capable, which would require 2HS for the jump drive.  The current design is .35 HS under 500t, dropping the GC and fire control takes that to 1.3HS.  I could gain another .2 by dropping the second engineering space and reducing deployment time to 11 months.  Then I'd either need to drop a HS of engine, partially compensating by going with 100% engines and adding a bit of fuel, or shrinking the sensors. 

This would make the initial insertion stealthier as I'd be jumping 500t instead of 2400t, but based on the way the game has developed I'm more inclined to just make a custom 1.2 size thermal sensor for the craft since I have a bit of extra room.    The EM sensor and engines are what pushes the max repair to 18, so I could potentially drop the extra engineering space for a 1.4 size thermal sensor if I use 1HS engines and am willing to accept a potential EM sensor maintenance failure. Or I could drop deployment time to save the .1HS on quarters.

If I push jump efficiency research I could probably get a a scout carrier down to 1000t - would that make enough difference in detection radius to pursue?  Or do NPRs tend to keep a close watch on jump points they know about so the size of my insertion craft won't matter much?   

[bankshot (OP)]

Actually, I found the proper solution.  Go with a slightly smaller cannon, and use the extra space for a larger thermal sensor.  I also bumped the engineering space up from 2x fighter to 1x tiny.   

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Clouseau v1.1 class Scout Fighter    498 tons     11 Crew     119.14 BP      TCS 9.95  TH 17.85  EM 0
5125 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 17/18/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0.6
Maint Life 7.63 Years     MSP 37    AFR 7%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 1    5YR 17    Max Repair 18 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 20 months    Spare Berths 0   

25.6 EP 2HS 80% stealth MP Drive (2)    Power 25.6    Fuel Use 28.05%    Signature 8.96    Exp 8%
Fuel Capacity 50,000 Litres    Range 64.5 billion km   (145 days at full power)

FTR Gauss Cannon R3-10 (1x4)    Range 30,000km     TS: 5125 km/s     Accuracy Modifier 10%     RM 3    ROF 5        1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S00.2 40-2500 (FTR) (1)    Max Range: 80,000 km   TS: 10000 km/s     88 75 62 50 38 25 12 0 0 0

FTR Active Search MR2-R20 (1)     GPS 72     Range 2.9m km    Resolution 20
Thermal Sensor TH1.6-17 (1)     Sensitivity 17     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  17m km
EM Sensor EM1-18 (1)     Sensitivity 18     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  18m km

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes


[Garfunkel]

In my experience, either the JP is completely empty or there is a TG sitting on top of it. If it's the latter, there's little point in stealth - unless your JE can get you far enough from the JP itself AND you have good enough stealth that they won't spot you - and if it is the former, then you're most likely far enough from planets so that they won't see you, no matter your size.

But obviously a small scout carrier helps as it allows you to sneakily get closer before launching the fighters. But that's not really important for you since your fighters have both long range and long endurance.

[Michael Sandy]

I like the scout carrier concept.  It has a long life, as you can use it as a colony picket, jump point picket, or have it carry short endurance fleet scouts.

However, I would make it just a bit larger, to match the size of your smallest group jump engine.  That way, you can have your parasite craft do a standard jump.  And adding a maintenance storage allows it to repair parasite craft that have expensive systems.  Like grav survey boats.

I would go with a somewhat less fuel efficient engine, and somewhat more fuel, especially as it is a carrier, and may occasionally host thirsty scout craft.

Also, while I appreciate the RP value of a completely independent capable scout, it is generally more efficient and effective to split up the role.  For scouting, you want the largest possible sensor/cross section ratio.  That is, instead of all the sensors on one fighter, you are better off with three smaller fighters, each being harder to detect.

Having some weapon is a good idea, as a common target is unarmed scout craft, survey craft, and jump gate construction ships.  It would take an age and a half to kill a large ship with a miniaturized gauss, and it might ram you first, but it costs so little.  However, again, you may want to split up the role.  A sprint fighter with a minimal sized gauss cannon and FC, and a .1 HS active sensor would complement the slower, longer endurance scouts.

[Iranon]

Why not split things up and use smaller fighters? You could halve your sensor footprint almost for free.

[Jorgen_CAB]

I use scout craft in small packages all the time and I agree that crafts at this level often need to be rather specialised to work properly.

I also find it a bit peculiar that the parasite have almost the same range and deployment times as the carrier. The whole point with the carrier is that the parasite don't need either of those two. The parasite instead can use more mission tonnage and/or better more powerful engines.

[Michael Sandy]

It might be a good idea to have those independent long ranged jump scouts accompany the carrier, not be embarked on it.  Have the carrier transport the sprint mode scouts, but for immediately scouting the jump point vicinity, you use the jump scouts.  That way, you find out if the jump point is within potential sensor range if the carrier is going to have to jump in to retrieve non-jump capable scouts.

I always start off with building jump capable scouts to probe, they have much longer endurance but much slower than scouts I build once I have carriers (and more fuel) available.

In addition to sprint mode scouts, a system scout carrier should be expected to carry long endurance engineless early warning satellites.  If no sensor is larger than 1 HS, and it has an engineering system and a 3 month + deployment time, you can build them as commercial, meaning they never break down.  Or you can cheap out and build 10-15 ton satellites that have NO systems that can fail, and only the default ship sensors, stock a bunch of these and deploy them on both sides of every jump point.

I build a LOT of commercial jump tenders to support my exploration efforts.  The lack of maintenance required means they can stay on station for much longer, and they have less down time when they return to a colony for R&R.  But that is more complicated logistically, as you would be constantly be remixing your exploration squadrons.

But those commercial jump tenders will have a larger footprint, and the difference between a 2400 ton ship and a 4000 ton ship vs res 100 anti-ship sensor is considerable.

[bankshot (OP)]

Separating the sensor packages is a valid point - I could deploy the fighters in pairs and either use smaller fighters, have much larger sensors, or make the fighters self-jumpable.

The carrier and fighters are both long endurance because I planned to use them to scout the system while I built jump gates, but even so I could reduce the fighter's endurance to 6 months without impacting the mission.  My minimum jump drive size is 15 as my engine tech has lagged.  I've only had a decent (>10% bonus) power/propulsion scientist for less than a year. 

I think I'll make a 150 ton self-jump probe fighter to make the initial transit - it would be much cheaper to lose a 2-3 man fighter than a scout carrier if there is a task force on the jump point.  The Clouseau's will be split into Thermal and EM variants and deployed as a pair instead of independently.  That will drop their size to a bit over 400 tons, which gives room for the jump probe and bumps their speed to 6K, or I could drop to 3HS of engines to further reduce signature.  With a thermal signature below 20 I assume I'll be able to run full speed through the system as I think I'd pick up active sensor emissions or a planet's signature before mine would be spotted.  So 5 months should be plenty of time to confirm the system is clear of hostiles before the surveyors arrive.   
 

[Michael Sandy]

My efficiency 5 jump scouts are 250 ton fighters that have 2 HS in engine, and a .1 HS active sensor, .5 HS engineering.  They are designed to be relatively quick and have 60-90 billion km range.  Their role is initial body check of a system.  The purpose of the sensor is to get more information at near zero range.  If it can detect ships outside of energy range, that means they get useful information before dying.

My 500 ton jump scouts have 3 HS in engine and a 2 HS sensor, usually an EM sensor.  Same range, a bit longer crew endurance because they also serve as sensor picket.

My fleet scouts are 3 HS in engine, 1 HS in fuel, 1 HS in sensors, approximately 300 tons.  At 50% of ship in engines, and boosted engines, they are a lot faster than my warships can afford to be.  If I know the approximate HS of an empire's preferred ships, I research a sensor of that resolution.  One of the things I like about using fighter scouts is that I don't agonize over the cost of researching small sensor systems.

I also have more expendable scouts, which are a size 1 engine, 1 small fuel tank, and a .1 HS active sensor.  Much faster, very cheap, and useful for finding out what an enemy is armed with, and what their range is.  I RP it that they are actually semi-autonomous drones rather than suicide craft.

[bankshot (OP)]

I also have more expendable scouts, which are a size 1 engine, 1 small fuel tank, and a .1 HS active sensor.  Much faster, very cheap, and useful for finding out what an enemy is armed with, and what their range is.  I RP it that they are actually semi-autonomous drones rather than suicide craft.

Or you could make them conscript craft, with the pilots participating in something like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Running_Man_(1987_film)

[Michael Sandy]

I could make them conscripts, but their crew requirements are minor, and low crew grade means they are less responsive.  On the occasion that I want them to kite an enemy, I want them obeying my orders quickly.

Another trick is to have a small fast fighter with a res 500 sensor.  The enemy can detect its sensor, and will follow it, but you can generally stay out of their active lock because your fighter is so small.