Author Topic: Some basic gameplay questions.  (Read 8599 times)

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Offline jfelten

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Re: Some basic gameplay questions.
« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2009, 09:16:19 AM »
Terraforming must be what I was missing.  I built some Terraform Installation on my HW thinking I would ship them to the colonies, but then found I couldn't move them for some weird reason so that was a huge waste of resources.  I'll have to look at building them on the colonies themselves.  I'm not 100% sure how terraforming works.  I noticed on the Economics windows under the mining tab there is a panel marked terraforming that lists all the ships there, not that any of my current ships can do any terraforming.
 

Offline Erik L

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Re: Some basic gameplay questions.
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2009, 09:54:17 AM »
Don't forget, once the planet is terraformed, you can ship that infrastructure to another colony that needs it.

Offline Brian Neumann

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Re: Some basic gameplay questions.
« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2009, 11:22:04 AM »
Quote from: "jfelten"
Terraforming must be what I was missing.  I built some Terraform Installation on my HW thinking I would ship them to the colonies, but then found I couldn't move them for some weird reason so that was a huge waste of resources.  I'll have to look at building them on the colonies themselves.  I'm not 100% sure how terraforming works.  I noticed on the Economics windows under the mining tab there is a panel marked terraforming that lists all the ships there, not that any of my current ships can do any terraforming.
There is a tech item under the ship components that costs 5000 rp called Terraforming Module.  Each module can be installed in a ship when a ship is in orbit of a colony and has one or more terraformer modules on board they add to the terraforming rate of the colony.  You need to set the gasses that you are interested in changing in the environment tab of the colony population and production screen (F2)  I usually try to get the oxygen to the minimal amount needed by the race and then remove any hostile gasses (ie sulfer dioxide,etc)  After that I add nitrogen if the temprature is already good for my race, or the appropriate type of greenhouse gasses to get the temprature where I want it.  One note is that if the Oxygen is more than about 30%(I think) of the total atmosphere then it is actually a hostile gas itself, so you will need to add enough other gasses to get it down below the danger point.

Brian
 

Offline welchbloke

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Re: Some basic gameplay questions.
« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2009, 11:50:56 AM »
Quote from: "Brian"
Quote from: "jfelten"
Terraforming must be what I was missing.  I built some Terraform Installation on my HW thinking I would ship them to the colonies, but then found I couldn't move them for some weird reason so that was a huge waste of resources.  I'll have to look at building them on the colonies themselves.  I'm not 100% sure how terraforming works.  I noticed on the Economics windows under the mining tab there is a panel marked terraforming that lists all the ships there, not that any of my current ships can do any terraforming.
There is a tech item under the ship components that costs 5000 rp called Terraforming Module.  Each module can be installed in a ship when a ship is in orbit of a colony and has one or more terraformer modules on board they add to the terraforming rate of the colony.  You need to set the gasses that you are interested in changing in the environment tab of the colony population and production screen (F2)  I usually try to get the oxygen to the minimal amount needed by the race and then remove any hostile gasses (ie sulfer dioxide,etc)  After that I add nitrogen if the temprature is already good for my race, or the appropriate type of greenhouse gasses to get the temprature where I want it.  One note is that if the Oxygen is more than about 30%(I think) of the total atmosphere then it is actually a hostile gas itself, so you will need to add enough other gasses to get it down below the danger point.

Brian
Is there a thead that disusses how the various greenhouse gases affect the temperature?
Welchbloke
 

Offline sloanjh

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Re: Some basic gameplay questions.
« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2009, 09:51:50 PM »
Quote from: "jfelten"
Terraforming must be what I was missing.  I built some Terraform Installation on my HW thinking I would ship them to the colonies, but then found I couldn't move them for some weird reason so that was a huge waste of resources.  I'll have to look at building them on the colonies themselves.  I'm not 100% sure how terraforming works.  I noticed on the Economics windows under the mining tab there is a panel marked terraforming that lists all the ships there, not that any of my current ships can do any terraforming.
What Brian said - I think pretty much everyone uses terraforming ships, as opposed to building installations.  The two problems with building installations are:

    It takes a loooooooong time for new (small) colony to build even a single installation.

    Once the world is terraformed, the value of your investment goes to zero since the terraforming installations can't be shipped to other worlds.

I actually tend to build my terraforming ships without engines, plus build a couple of tugs (needs tractor-beam tech).  The tugs drag the terraformers where they need to go, plus are useful to have around as fast couriers or to give a ship a speed boost.  For example, I usually use a tug with my troop transport when I'm shipping ground forces around.

John
 

Offline jfelten

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Re: Some basic gameplay questions.
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2009, 04:02:17 AM »
I created a terraformer design that crams 2 terraforming modules in a 6K hull which left 1,000 tons for everything else so I could only make it about 400Kps, but that is fast enough for the current in-system colonies which are not far.  The tug idea is a good one for when the day comes for extra-solar colonies (I think I still need to research the tractor beam).  I only played a few months last night so didn't even get the shipyard retooled.  That takes far too long IMO but that is the way it is.  I need to research faster shipyards but there is always a long list of pending research projects.  

Is there a convenient way to figure out what needs to be changed when terraforming begins, or do you just have to go through each parameter?  

Terraforming makes larger colonies viable but it still comes back to my original question.  Why colonize?  We discussed a few modest advantages such as manned mines on suitable worlds and additional research projects, but past that, which doesn't really take extensive colonization, why is population off the HW of more benefit than leaving the same population on the HW?  IIRC I can convert my starting HW mines to automated mines, and it only takes a few pop to run a few research installations.  We did mention leader bonuses and perhaps those will become more important as my leaders evolve and improve.  Does anyone have anything to add to what has already been mentioned here?  Colonization in Aurora seems a much smaller benefit than in most 4X space games I've played.  But I'm still only about 20 years in to my first game so I have a lot to learn yet.
 

Offline Hawkeye

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Re: Some basic gameplay questions.
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2009, 10:04:02 AM »
Quote from: "jfelten"
Terraforming makes larger colonies viable but it still comes back to my original question.  Why colonize?  We discussed a few modest advantages such as manned mines on suitable worlds and additional research projects, but past that, which doesn't really take extensive colonization, why is population off the HW of more benefit than leaving the same population on the HW?  IIRC I can convert my starting HW mines to automated mines, and it only takes a few pop to run a few research installations.  We did mention leader bonuses and perhaps those will become more important as my leaders evolve and improve.  Does anyone have anything to add to what has already been mentioned here?  Colonization in Aurora seems a much smaller benefit than in most 4X space games I've played.  But I'm still only about 20 years in to my first game so I have a lot to learn yet.

While you are basicly correct, in that you don´t get a direct benefit from colonizing other planets (other than a larger growth rate), if you want to establish a permanent presence in another system/systems, there is realy no easy way around this.
You want to have maintanence facilities there, to keep your ships in working condition without shuttling them back all the time for overhauls
When you spread out more, it might also be a good idea to build a shipyard closer to the front lines, so first you have to have quite a few factories (requiring workers, of course) and then you need the manpower to keep the yard running.
Oh, and it doesn´t only take "a few pop" to run a Research Lab, it takes 1 mio workers each, so if you want to run 20 RLs you need some 30 mio colonists (because some 30% will work in agriculter, environment and service industrie and not be available for your industrie/RLs)

Also, don´t forget, the worse the environment, the smaller the percetage of colonist that are available for your industrie (I found a shipyard on mercury once (colonycost 10.0+) and for every 1 mio colonists there, some 10000 or so would be available for work. Needless to say that I scraped the idea of getting this yard to work)

Of course, being the Newbee I am, this is all only IMO :)
Ralph Hoenig, Germany
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: Some basic gameplay questions.
« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2009, 10:37:49 AM »
Quote from: "jfelten"
Basic question:  For officers, one of their areas is research bonus, but it has specific research types in parenthesis afterward.  My question is what is the significance of that?  Are those the only areas of research the officer gives benefit to, or are those areas he is extra good at, and if so, what is the additional bonus for those areas?  I'm hoping the latter as otherwise it would be royal pain to keep reassigning different officers every time a different research project is started.
You get the research bonus for all projects. However, if the research project is within the officer's speciality his bonus is quadrupled, so a 30% bonus becomes a 120% bonus.

Steve
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: Some basic gameplay questions.
« Reply #38 on: January 15, 2009, 10:40:42 AM »
Quote from: "jfelten"
Another probably simple question.  What does it take to be able to identify the civilian ships when they appear?  For a good while the game treated them like unknown aliens.  I think later it learned that they were just civilian ships.  The oddball thing is that those civilian ships were built right there at my homeworld.  I should certainly be able to identify them.  Even within the game system, I should have had excellent opportunities to scan them by the planetary, home fleet, PDC's, etc. sensors at short range when they first left the HW.
Active sensors will identify the civilian ships as individual classes, after which you can view them on the Tactical Intelligence windows. Civilian ships also broadcast a transponder signal to identify them even when outside of sensor range. This will be a number (TP: 136 for example) until you identify the class, at which point it will show the class name with the transponder

Steve
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: Some basic gameplay questions.
« Reply #39 on: January 15, 2009, 10:41:39 AM »
Quote from: "Erik Luken"
Quote from: "welchbloke"
I've had the same issue and I'm sure it is because I've not turned my active sensors on.  The next question is - how do I turn my active sensors on? ;)
You can also switch on active sensors on the combat tab of the F6 Ship window

Steve
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: Some basic gameplay questions.
« Reply #40 on: January 15, 2009, 10:42:44 AM »
Quote from: "Erik Luken"
Quote from: "welchbloke"
Thanks Erik and sorry for mis-spelling your name in the last post.  What about the deep space tracking station?  Is it an active or a passive system?
I want to say those are passives. But I am not sure. And no worries on the name :)
Planetary sensors are EM and Thermal only. This is to avoid broadcasting the existence of the population to anyone passing through the system.

Steve
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: Some basic gameplay questions.
« Reply #41 on: January 15, 2009, 10:44:42 AM »
Quote from: "welchbloke"
Next basic question:
How do you load the magazines of PDCs with missiles?  I can see how it is done with ships (load ordinance - easy!), but not with PDCs.
You can use one of the five buttons in the Magazine section of the Parasite/Missile tab of the F6 Ship/Window. Each button has a popup explaining its use. The one you will use most is Population, which loads the PDC magazines from the stockpiles of the parent population.

Steve
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: What good are colonies?
« Reply #42 on: January 15, 2009, 11:20:52 AM »
Quote from: "jfelten"
What good are colonies?  By colonies here I mean those with large populations.  

I built some colonies on the assumption that they are a good thing to have in any space 4X game.  Now they are big enough (~50m pop each I think) and growing at a high enough rate (~10%?) that they are consuming a large and ever growing amount of my HW's production and D* stock just supplying them with infrastructure so they don't run short of housing and get annoyed.  One has enough D* potential/production that if I hauled enough industry there it could probably build its own infrastructure, but its D* supply won't last forever and one of the reasons I built the colony there in the first place was a plan that it could mine D* and ship it to the HW.  I can foresee this infrastructure problem growing as the colonies continue to grow.  

I can see the value of colonies to man mines which are cheaper than automated mines to produce.  Also, once the HW resources are mined out, the existing mines are useless there but can function on colonies that have resources to mine.  Of course eventually those colonies resources will also be mined out and the process would have to be repeated at a new colony site.  Assuming of course that you are lucky enough to find an inhabitable world that also has decent mineral resources.  But then what do you do with the original colonies that keep demanding more and more infrastructure?  Let them go in to revolt?  

Traditionally colonies ship raw materials back to the homeland to feed industry there.  As the colonies mature, they develop their own industry and eventually end up trading with the homeland (or rebelling of course and going their own way).  

Aside of manning mines, the only real advantage I see to pop on colonies vs leaving the pop on the HW is the growth rate on colonies seems to be higher.  Should I reverse my colony ships and start siphoning off pop to return to the HW to grow the tax base?  I would of course be fighting against the efforts of the civilian colony ships.  I can think of a bunch of small uses for colonies but I'm asking about the big picture here.  I tried adding research centers to colonies so I could research more than one technology at a time, but I see little real benefit to that vs just researching one thing at a time on the HW faster.
Although there are a number of reasons to establish colonies, one possible strategy would be to stay at home and use automated mines only, shipping all of the minerals home. There are some disadvantages to a stay-at-home strategy, which are the opposites of the reasons for colonies, but it would make an interesting game. Before I list the reasons, it's worth pointing out that Aurora has realistic growth so building up colonies takes time. This is partially influenced by playing Starfire where the Rigellian Empire went from single planet of several billion to a galaxy-spanning colossus with a population of trillions in about 15 years :). I wanted the history of Empires to be more realistic in terms of what could be achieved over time. Something along the lines of the history of Weber's Terran Federation, which was measured in hundred of years.

Here are 10 reasons for populated colonies, as opposed to automated mining sites and listening posts (I am sure there will be others I haven't thought of while writing this list):
1) Homeworld minerals tend to run out in the first 10-20 years of a game. If you can find a planet with good mineral deposits, you can place twice as many manned mines as you could automated mines for the same production costs.
2) Some officers have great research bonuses but they are too junior to be governor of the home world. If you establish a small research colony, the required rank is much lower. Assign the officer and then build up the colony. Having several specialised research colonies will result in faster overall research than researching everything at home regardless of specialization.
3) Ships need maintenance and overhauls, as well as a base where that can sit without accumulating time on their maintenance clocks. All of these require maintenance facilities, which in turn require population to man them. Although you can explore and project power 3-4 systems from the home world, your survey ships will soon be spending more time in transit then exploring. Establishing forward bases will allow you to expand more easily, using the base as a node. It can overhaul survey ships and can serve as a forward base for warships. If you are at war with an alien race, establishing a colony with maintenance facilities close to their territory will allow you to forward deploy ships without running up their clocks and create a defence in depth.
4) Population growth is much higher on colony worlds. In some games (such as my current campaign), lack of population can be a major problem so increasing it can become the primary economic goal, in which case a lot of small colonies is a good way to achieve it.
5) Another bonus of greater population is greater wealth production, so if you are short on wealth, creating colonies can increase the growth of the Empire's overall wealth.
6) If you build spaceports on colonies, you can create trade routes that generate more wealth. Some planets have a rare trade goods bonus that will increase the wealth from trade routes. The Commonwealth in my current campaign is generating 25% of its income from trade.
7) You can specialise colonies to take advantage of officer bonuses. As it is difficult to get an officer that is good at everything, you could move your ordnance factories to a different colony and assign a officer with a 30% production bonus. Another colony could be setup for shipbuilding and assigned an officer with a 30% shipbuilding bonus. A third for mining, etc. New colonies can also be assigned governors of lower rank so you can take advantage of junior officers that wouldn't be able to manage the homeworld.
8) Ruins can be a good source of installations. Rather than bring them all home, use them as a basis of a new colony, bring in population and only remove what it is unnecessary.
9) As known space gets larger and sources of minerals close to the homeworld are exhausted, it can be worth moving those industries that require minerals closer to new mining sites.
10) A planet with a good amount of accessible sorium can be the fuel production centre of the Empire. Rather than bringing the Sorium back to the homeworld, put mines and fuel refineries (and an officer with good production/mining bonuses) on the planet.

I note in your answer you mentioned infrastructure. Worlds with colony cost zero don't need infrastructure so It's a good idea to build terraforming ships and select planets that can be rapidly terraformed. The best place to analyse this is on the Available Colony window (ctrl-A from the main menu or the World icon on the System Map).

Steve
 

Offline welchbloke

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Re: Some basic gameplay questions.
« Reply #43 on: January 15, 2009, 03:03:46 PM »
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
Quote from: "Erik Luken"
Quote from: "welchbloke"
Thanks Erik and sorry for mis-spelling your name in the last post.  What about the deep space tracking station?  Is it an active or a passive system?
I want to say those are passives. But I am not sure. And no worries on the name :D
Welchbloke
 

Offline welchbloke

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Re: Some basic gameplay questions.
« Reply #44 on: January 15, 2009, 03:05:57 PM »
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
Quote from: "welchbloke"
Next basic question:
How do you load the magazines of PDCs with missiles?  I can see how it is done with ships (load ordinance - easy!), but not with PDCs.
You can use one of the five buttons in the Magazine section of the Parasite/Missile tab of the F6 Ship/Window. Each button has a popup explaining its use. The one you will use most is Population, which loads the PDC magazines from the stockpiles of the parent population.

Steve
Found it, thanks Steve!
Welchbloke