Author Topic: How big an Army do you need?  (Read 2062 times)

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Offline IanD (OP)

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How big an Army do you need?
« on: May 19, 2020, 06:39:13 AM »
Who has tried their ground units against the enemy. Early in the game I found a couple of targets

I took on a 30,000+ ton Precursor ground formation. I took approximately 150,000 tons of tank battalions and a couple of infantry battalions which the game designed on start-up. I got creamed. I would have lost if it was not for very aggressive orbital bombardment which took out 20,000 tons. that gave me an edge. I finished with a very short mechanised brigade with two companies worth of tanks and an infantry company.

In a second engagement against 40,000+ tons of Precursor units I faired much better but had three times the armoured component of upgraded tanks and heavy powered armoured infantry with artillery support. My armoured brigades started with 4 tank battalions of 100 tanks plus support each, two Power armoured infantry brigades of 3 infantry battalions consisting of 1000 troopers plus support each. I finished with four armoured brigades each consisting of approximately 100 tanks over two battalions and very little support. There was also an infantry brigade with less than 1250 heavy power armoured infantry spread over three infantry battalions. The artillery regiments were virtually unscathed.

Has any one else seen the elephant?
IanD
 

Online Black

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Re: How big an Army do you need?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2020, 07:19:39 AM »
Environment has massive effect. If you fight on Venusian world, or something with mountains, you will need special training or much more troops. Also from my experience, couple of upgraded techs makes difference because Precursor ground forces are most likely quite high-tech.

I am using 200000 tons of mixed troops to deal with Precursor garrisons with around 200000 tons of space ships for orbital support.

This is my basic tank and infantry for comparison that were main part of invasion force in my last two ground invasions:

Code: [Select]
MA26N Manticore Tank (2098)
Transport Size (tons) 70     Cost 5,6     Armour 72     Hit Points 72
Annual Maintenance Cost 0,7     Resupply Cost 25
Medium Anti-Vehicle:      Shots 1      Penetration 60      Damage 60
Heavy Crew-Served Anti-Personnel:      Shots 6      Penetration 22      Damage 15

Code: [Select]
Infantryman (2094)
Transport Size (tons) 5     Cost 0,5     Armour 36     Hit Points 36
Annual Maintenance Cost 0,063     Resupply Cost 1
Personal Weapons:      Shots 1      Penetration 12      Damage 12

Advanced Genetic Enhancement

Vendarite  0,2   
Development Cost  25
 

Offline consiefe

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Re: How big an Army do you need?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2020, 08:22:40 AM »
I had very similar experience. My 130k army got wiped out by their 25k. But they were massively armored and had superior firepower.

Then I made much more versatile elements than my random ones and this time dug deep and set up coordinated divisions with enough support for FL with rational positioning HQ etc.

After this similar engagements went like a breeze with me seeing breakthrough achieved event all the time.
 

Online SpaceMarine

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Re: How big an Army do you need?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2020, 08:42:07 AM »
Just to put something into the pot, guys remember that you wont know the full extent of their ground forces if they are fortified which they likely are, as that hides the signature of them partially
 

Offline consiefe

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Re: How big an Army do you need?
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2020, 08:49:59 AM »
Just to put something into the pot, guys remember that you wont know the full extent of their ground forces if they are fortified which they likely are, as that hides the signature of them partially

Yes, very good point. Fortification is another huge factor in GC as attacking side mostly have the disadvantage. This brings construction elements importance especially on defence units. I'd like to know if they contribute much for front line attack.
 

Offline Pedroig

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Re: How big an Army do you need?
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2020, 09:09:13 AM »
Construction units do nothing for attack, Front Line Attack both foregoes and resets any/all fortification bonuses the element/formation had.
si vis pacem, para bellum
 
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Offline consiefe

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Re: How big an Army do you need?
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2020, 09:14:55 AM »
Construction units do nothing for attack, Front Line Attack both foregoes and resets any/all fortification bonuses the element/formation had.

I figured when I see the fortification bonus stays as 1 if field position is FL attack. That's why I design separate brigades who is going to attack and defend. Defence brigades have significant construction elements in them. Thanks for the final word.
 

Offline ydirbut

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Re: How big an Army do you need?
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2020, 10:30:39 AM »
Currently trying to take over an NPR homeworld.  They have about 120,000 tons of ground troops defending it (mixed tech levels from Infantry -> Heavy Infantry (which I assume is Power Armor), but mostly low level.  I attacked with 420,000 tons of Heavy Power Armor, Super Heavy Tanks, and Artillery (so significant tech edge) but lost pretty badly.  Tried again with 500,000 and made more headway, but still would have lost.  Now I'm attempting two waves of ~500,000 tons each.  Won but didn't have enough GSP to kill all of their infantry, so back to the drawing aboard again.  No fighter or orbital support.

BTW, doing some quick testing, it looks like FFD has no effect on artillery.

Against Precursors, I tried 80,000 tons of PA infantry versus 20,000 tons and got totally stomped.  Haven’t tried again.
 

Offline consiefe

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Re: How big an Army do you need?
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2020, 10:44:33 AM »
Currently trying to take over an NPR homeworld.  They have about 120,000 tons of ground troops defending it (mixed tech levels from Infantry -> Heavy Infantry (which I assume is Power Armor), but mostly low level.  I attacked with 420,000 tons of Heavy Power Armor, Super Heavy Tanks, and Artillery (so significant tech edge) but lost pretty badly.  Tried again with 500,000 and made more headway, but still would have lost.  Now I'm attempting two waves of ~500,000 tons each.  Won but didn't have enough GSP to kill all of their infantry, so back to the drawing aboard again.  No fighter or orbital support.

BTW, doing some quick testing, it looks like FFD has no effect on artillery.

Against Precursors, I tried 80,000 tons of PA infantry versus 20,000 tons and got totally stomped.  Haven%u2019t tried again.

First of all, yes FFD only effects orbital.

I design 2-4 brigades per division. Brigades tend to have 10k troops in them. These can be mixed like attack and defence or pure. If I design attack brgs, I make them very tough with genetics alike. Mostly give them support bombardments. Also handpick each one of their battle positions. HQ units must live, I make them from armored med veh and put them rear. Enough pure logistics brigades attached to the army on the rear. In defence divs there are brigades with construction units.

Generally I can take out tough spoilers easily with this concept with a 140-150k army. But NPR might be different game. They would be strongly fortified so I think you can get help from orbit.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 10:46:46 AM by consiefe »
 

Offline Geezer

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Re: How big an Army do you need?
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2020, 11:56:24 AM »
Are there any bonuses in combat for combined arms formations?
We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing - George Bernard Shaw
 

Offline consiefe

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Re: How big an Army do you need?
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2020, 12:05:09 PM »
Are there any bonuses in combat for combined arms formations?

Not that I know of. But every different element brings different set of armor and weapon to the formation. It comes to quantity and quality of your troops induvidally becuase I think combat happens one on one or one on more if there are more shots per unit.
 

Offline vorpal+5

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Re: How big an Army do you need?
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2020, 01:00:13 PM »
That would not be very realistic if the "main lines" units in the army had to be tailored to be either offensive or defensive. That would be as if you had only stosstruppen (or stormtroopers for a star wars reference) and static/fortress garrison. I hope that' s not the case!
 

Offline consiefe

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Re: How big an Army do you need?
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2020, 01:04:09 PM »
That would not be very realistic if the "main lines" units in the army had to be tailored to be either offensive or defensive. That would be as if you had only stosstruppen (or stormtroopers for a star wars reference) and static/fortress garrison. I hope that' s not the case!

There is no need for that but for front line attack, fortifcation is always 1 so construction units don't contribute. You can always mix up your defence minded units with attack minded ones from your perspective. Because game does not identify units like that.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 01:06:30 PM by consiefe »
 

Offline Ulzgoroth

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Re: How big an Army do you need?
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2020, 02:39:04 PM »
That would not be very realistic if the "main lines" units in the army had to be tailored to be either offensive or defensive. That would be as if you had only stosstruppen (or stormtroopers for a star wars reference) and static/fortress garrison. I hope that' s not the case!
Well, if you're optimizing that might be the case - static and infantry units have better fortification, while you really want vehicles for offensive breakthroughs.

But construction vehicles for fortification don't have to be integrated into the low-level combat formations. You can attach engineering formations as direct subordinates (with no subordinates of their own) to the top command formation, and they'll help fortify every formation in the hierarchy. And then if you're deploying for strictly offensive operations, you can leave the engineering formations behind. (And maybe replace them with artillery batteries, which can be put in the organization in exactly the same way, if you need something to fill the spot.)
 

Offline froggiest1982

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Re: How big an Army do you need?
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2020, 04:54:53 PM »
Currently trying to take over an NPR homeworld.  They have about 120,000 tons of ground troops defending it (mixed tech levels from Infantry -> Heavy Infantry (which I assume is Power Armor), but mostly low level.  I attacked with 420,000 tons of Heavy Power Armor, Super Heavy Tanks, and Artillery (so significant tech edge) but lost pretty badly.  Tried again with 500,000 and made more headway, but still would have lost.  Now I'm attempting two waves of ~500,000 tons each.  Won but didn't have enough GSP to kill all of their infantry, so back to the drawing aboard again.  No fighter or orbital support.

BTW, doing some quick testing, it looks like FFD has no effect on artillery.

Against Precursors, I tried 80,000 tons of PA infantry versus 20,000 tons and got totally stomped.  Haven%u2019t tried again.

First of all, yes FFD only effects orbital.

I design 2-4 brigades per division. Brigades tend to have 10k troops in them. These can be mixed like attack and defence or pure. If I design attack brgs, I make them very tough with genetics alike. Mostly give them support bombardments. Also handpick each one of their battle positions. HQ units must live, I make them from armored med veh and put them rear. Enough pure logistics brigades attached to the army on the rear. In defence divs there are brigades with construction units.

Generally I can take out tough spoilers easily with this concept with a 140-150k army. But NPR might be different game. They would be strongly fortified so I think you can get help from orbit.

1 FFD = 1orbital ship bombardment OR 6 Bombardment Pods

 

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